From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 1-JUL-1998 15:08:03.52 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9806B" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:37 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9806B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:51:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Alaskan indexers? You're right. AL is Alabama. AK is Alaska. :-) -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ann Norcross [SMTP:norcross@IX.NETCOM.COM] > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 1998 2:55 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Alaskan indexers? > > Hello, all. Are there any indexers out there living and working in > Alaska? I have a friend here in North Carolina who is interested in > indexing, and plans to move back to Alaska eventually. Thought I'd > try to put him in touch with someone who is actually *doing* what he > might want to do. Thanks. > > Ann Norcross > Crosover Information Services > > P.S. The Indexer Services directory from ASI lists an Alaskan indexer, > but I believe it is an error, as I don't think there is a Tuscaloosa, > Alaska, and I also believe that AL is *not* the abbreviaiton for > Alaska. Oops. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:55:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: footnote on scanning Pam Rider wrote: >Sonsie sez: >..but I still include ALL author names because of >>(a), and because most authors and editors want me to. >> >I absolutely agree and when doing author indexing, I include all known >authors for each cite. Everyone given credit for a work in the references >deserves (and I think the need to be accurate requires) credit. > This may explain why some folks have been saying stuff like "what's the big deal about name indexes; I find them very simple". I absolutely include every single name. It's not for me to judge who the "important" researchers are. In a detailed scholarly name index this can easily amount to 3-6 or more _times_ the amount of work involved versus just indexing the first name; it's nothing in a psych book to have 15 names in a reference; the average is perhaps 3-5 names. The indexing texts I've read focus on lots of stuff on names of different nationalities, etc., but I've never found a discussion of what is and isn't appropriate in this case. So I've always gone by the previous edition's name index, and in every single case it has included all names. I have just kept this style since the few times I broached the subject with editors the answer has always been "stick to the existing style". I do draw the line at references within references: "In yada yada book": some people insist on including these too and including these can easily add another huge chunk of names and extra time. As I pointed out in another post, I've noticed in almost every case of a huge scholarly name index in which I have a previous edition's text to go by, so much energy has apparently been spent on the name index that the subject index is invariably quite short. Very commonly the name index will be 2 times the length of the subject index! I ask the editor for more room for the subject index but often since they've figured out their space requirements based on the previous edition, there isn't much extra room to play with. So the overall task (subject and name indexes) is eased somewhat by the fact that you often don't need to, in fact can't afford to, do a very detailed subject index. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:59:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Indexing author citations 1) yes 2) yes 3) no. yes. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:41:40 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RED RED Subject: late indexes Is there anyone out there who has difficulty meeting deadlines? What do you tell your client when the index is going to be late? I recently have had several of my indexes late an feel badly about it, so, I reduced the price. Sam K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 19:54:05 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: Re: late indexes In-Reply-To: <199806081942.PAA13231@jane.penn.com> At 12:41 PM 6/8/98 PDT, Sam K. wrote: >Is there anyone out there who has difficulty meeting deadlines? What do >you tell your client when the index is going to be late? I cringe and make excuses. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:08:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: Internet Service Providers The Colorado Chapter of ASI is researching the costs of a Web Site. We have an initial idea list for our Web Site, but need to carefully consider ALL costing options for hosting the site. We would appreciate any feedback regarding the pros and cons of your experiences with different Internet Service Providers. Specifically, we are looking for information on how much storage is provided, how much data transfer, email accounts, File Transfer Protocol (FTP) access, log files, technical support, experiences (good and bad), and costs per month or year. Please reply to Susan Olason (oleduke@ix.netcom.com) off list and I will provide a summary of comments for the list. Thanks for your help! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:12:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: late indexes Sam, Not wanting to preach too much here, I do want to state that missing deadlines is an absolute no-no in this business. I have never missed a deadline, so the following discussion is sheer theory only. Seriously, the only thing that would cause me to miss a deadline would be death or a life-threatening illness--either my own or that of someone in my immediate family. On a softer note, I think one has to be VERY careful to not overschedule oneself. If that happens, it is best to farm out the extra work to another indexer and tell the editor immediately when you realize that you have overextended yourself. Another thing that you can do is to discuss the deadline with the editor right after you receive the proofs, if the material looks more complicated and time-consuming than you thought--you might be able to wheedle out a few extra days from a sympathetic soul. These ploys, to my way of thinking, are better than turning in an index late. At 12:41 PM 6/8/98 PDT, RED RED wrote: >Is there anyone out there who has difficulty meeting deadlines? What do >you tell your client when the index is going to be late? >I recently have had several of my indexes late an feel badly about it, >so, I reduced the price. > >Sam K. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:21:47 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. Please report problems or inappropriate use to the remailer administrator at . From: Mixmaster I'm wondering how indexers inform their client that the index will be late. How do you go about asking for a time extension? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:40:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Internet Service Providers It would be wonderful if everyone responded to the ISP query online. There are a lot of indexing chapters and SIGs that are in the process of making this choice. I think it is if general interest. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:57:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: late indexes In-Reply-To: <199806081947.MAA17347@powergrid.electriciti.com> Sam certainly sounds diligent. I usually meet deadlines, but that's because I stay in contact with my clients and let them know as early as possible when an index is "dense" and I figure it will be a complicated project and we work as closely as possible to have a common understanding of when the estimated finish date is. If this changes from my end, I let the customer know. I would not reduce a fee unless asked to or if I had just taken days off. I consider my billing to be based primarily on the quality of my analysis and indexes. As long as I stay in touch with a production editor, my clients know I am being diligent. Schedules and deadlines can be unrealistic--publishers can also appreciate this. At 12:41 PM 6/8/98 PDT, you wrote: >Is there anyone out there who has difficulty meeting deadlines? What do >you tell your client when the index is going to be late? >I recently have had several of my indexes late an feel badly about it, >so, I reduced the price. > >Sam K. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:23:43 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: late indexes At 04:12 PM 6/8/1998 -0400, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >Not wanting to preach too much here, I do want to state that missing >deadlines is an absolute no-no in this business. >I have never missed a deadline, so the following discussion is sheer >theory only. Seriously, the only thing that would cause me to miss a >deadline would be death or a life-threatening illness--either my own or >that of someone in my immediate family. I agree, though perhaps not with the intensity you expressed. I think the very WORST thing is a poorly-prepared index, not one that is a day or two late. I would rather be a day or two late, and present an adequate-to-excellent index, than be strictly on time with a product that is not at least a reasonable facsimile of my best work. I'm no longer capable of--or willing to--pull all-nighters except in the direst emergencies, so I can no longer claim to have a perfect on-time record. I think twice in my career (spanning about 25 years), I've had to call the client and ask for a small extension...most recently, getting an index in Sunday night via email instead of Thursday evening. Since only one working day was lost and the client was quite comfortable with that, I'm not going to beat myself about the head and shoulders for it. >On a softer note, I think one has to be VERY careful to not overschedule >oneself. If that happens, it is best to farm out the extra work to another >indexer and tell the editor immediately when you realize that you have >overextended yourself. Another thing that you can do is to discuss the >deadline with the editor right after you receive the proofs, if the material >looks more complicated and time-consuming than you thought--you might be >able to wheedle out a few extra days from a sympathetic soul. These ploys, >to my way of thinking, are better than turning in an index late. I knew almost immediately upon receipt of this recent job that it was going to take a LOT longer than the editor had prepared me for, so I called him as soon as I was sure and requested the extra weekend's worth of time. If I had waited until the day it was due or thereabouts, my credibility would have been greatly reduced, IMO. What held me up was the enormous amount of what was essentially clerical work (picking out full names of all authors for the author index). At first, I asked my husband to help, but his color-blindness unexpectedly caused a real problem...he could not tell the difference between the day-glo green and rescue-truck orange markers I had used to identify subject and author index listings! At that point, I really no longer had the option to hire another indexer, since there aren't any in my immediate area and I hadn't time to deal with shipping off page proofs when I wasn't yet through with the subject index entries. Anyway, it all worked out okay and as I said, I don't feel particularly embarrassed about it. If I had found that I was developing a "history" of barely scraping by, time-wise, and had had to request several such time extensions, I'd really want to reexamine my scheduling and how long it takes me to do the work and make some adjustments. Second only to a lousy index, a late index is The Bad Thing. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:50:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Subject: Books on tape I'm curious about what happens to back-of-the-book indexes when books are recorded onto tape. I'm not thinking so much about popular fiction, but more about textbooks that are recorded for the blind. Is an index included with page locators having been converted into tape position markers? Or is the poor listener required to "search" the tape with fast forward and reverse buttons, relying on memory for relative positions? Same question holds for Table of Contents. Just wondering... Vicki ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:52:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Katrina Lemke Subject: Re: Books on tape In-Reply-To: <199806082157.RAA13695@camel5.mindspring.com> I just called Washington Talking Book and Braille Library to find out about indexes on tape. Tapes that are recorded for the blind are on special four-track tapes and require four-track multiple-speed recorders in order to use. In fast forward mode a beep sounds at each new page, but that is the only way to search and you must count the beeps from the beginning as there is just one tone. There are no indexes included on tapes recorded for the blind. I asked the same question regarding Braille and it seems that indexes are not usually included, but that in some Braille text books the print page number is brailled on the left corner and the braille page on the right. Braille books are so huge as it is that an index could easily be another entire volume so I'm sure that's part of the issue. Great question! Katrina Lemke Fisheye Indexing Seattle WA At 02:50 PM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >I'm curious about what happens to back-of-the-book indexes when books are > recorded >onto tape. I'm not thinking so much about popular fiction, but more about >textbooks that are recorded for the blind. Is an index included with page >locators having been converted into tape position markers? Or is the poor >listener required to "search" the tape with fast forward and reverse buttons, >relying on memory for relative positions? Same question holds for Table of >Contents. > >Just wondering... > >Vicki > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 20:22:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: late indexes Cynthia wrote: << Not wanting to preach too much here, I do want to state that missing deadlines is an absolute no-no in this business. I have never missed a deadline, so the following discussion is sheer theory only. >> Yup. I missed a deadline when I had to have emergency surgery. That's one reason my clients say they call me first--they don't have to wonder whether they'll get it on time. Of course, nobody plans to miss a deadline, so as Cynthia says, the main point is how to schedule yourself so you can meet them. I'm really, really careful what I commit to (and I tell publishers this)--for instance, if the schedule slips I renegotiate the deadline. Sometimes, way in advance, I'll ask them if I could mail on Monday instead of Friday (which gives me the weekend). It's okay to negotiate as long as it's way in advance. But once you commit...Sometimes you just have to stay up all night. It's really worth it for your reputation. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 22:56:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Any Dutch-speakers? A question for a Dutch-speaker: Is this book title spelled and capped correctly? Underscheit tusschen rechte und falsche leer Many thanks. My German heritage translates this as 'the difference between correct and false empty' - obviously I'm wrong since it should say something like "belief" or "faith" or ? Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:51:40 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: "et al." Please forgive my delay in responding. My computer has been sick and had to go to the doctor's. With all due respect to Carol Roberts and Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, I don't think the information she cites is correct. (Nor, I think, does the usage to be found in legal documents have any standing in the matter. The legal profession in notorious for its misuse of Latin, and indeed of English.) In a bibliography, where "et al." stands for unnamed authors, the meaning has to be "et alii" or "et aliae"; "et alia" makes no sense at all, unless the authors are indeed all neuter. My Australian Writers' Dictionary (the antipodean version of the Oxford Writers' Dictionary, formerly the Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors, and before that the Authors' and Printers' Dictionary) has the following entries: _et alibi_ (Lat.) and elsewhere; abbr. et al. [obviously irrelevant to bibliographies] _et alii_ (Lat.), and others; abbr. et al., _not_ et als. (not ital.) The New Shorter OED has this: _et al._ ... (a) [abbrev. of L _alii_, _aliae_, _alia_, masc. fem. & neut. pl. of _alius_ other] and others; ... The neuter plural is plainly inappropriate with reference to authors. So is the singular "alius", since if a work has only two authors, both names are given in a bibliography. Thank you, I feel better now (and my computer does too). From Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile (+64) 7-854-9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:20:08 -0700 Reply-To: elgecko@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jeanne cope Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? jeanne cope wrote: > > Martha Osgood wrote: > > > > A question for a Dutch-speaker: > > > > Is this book title spelled and capped correctly? > > Underscheit tusschen rechte und falsche leer > > > > Many thanks. My German heritage translates this as 'the difference between > > correct and false empty' - obviously I'm wrong since it should say > > something like "belief" or "faith" or ? > > > > Martha > > Back Words Indexing > > How would 'doctrine' or 'theory' or 'teaching' [of someone] be as the > translation of 'leer' ? Shouldn't 'Underscheit' be 'onderscheid' ? > We speak Afrikaans in South Africa, which is derived from Dutch - that > is what I would understand from your title. I think 'Underscheit' is > the German, which my dictionary writes as 'Unterschied'. I would write the title as 'Onderscheid tusschen rechte en valsche leer' Hope this helps. > > Greetings from a lurker > Jeanne ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Andrusko Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? In-Reply-To: <199806090556.BAA26932@rs8.loc.gov> Martha, "Leer" is the Dutch form of the German "Lehre," which means doctrine, faith, etc. So, it's a false cognate, I guess, for Dutch-German. (The German word "leer" (empty) is "leeg" in Dutch). Hmmm, are you by chance translating something from German to Dutch? German Unterschied is "onderscheid" in Dutch; tusschen--shouldn't that be tussen? German "falsch," Dutch "vals." "Und" is German; "en" is Dutch. Not sure the German "recht" is the same as the Dutch recht, so perhaps "waar" is better, "true"? Therefore, perhaps: Onderscheid tussen waare en valse leer? Sam Andrusko On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Martha Osgood wrote: > A question for a Dutch-speaker: > > Is this book title spelled and capped correctly? > Underscheit tusschen rechte und falsche leer > > Many thanks. My German heritage translates this as 'the difference between > correct and false empty' - obviously I'm wrong since it should say > something like "belief" or "faith" or ? > > Martha > Back Words Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 05:05:21 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Book Price/Search Web Site I was web surfing and found a really neat site, www.acses.com Acses checks out prices, availability, shipping times and shipping costs of any book at over 25 online stores, then lists the results. For example, you could pay anywhere from $24.20 to $45.74 for the same book, depending on the discount and shipping method. You can search by title, author, keyword, or ISBN number. Happy reading! Laura ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:07:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? My best guess as a someone who lived and worked near the Dutch border (on the German side) for 13 years but never learned the language. Difference between correct and false teachings ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:29:39 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: Internet Service Providers Have you checked into GeoCities or Tripod ? Both are essentially free and very easy to upload files to, etc. GeoCities is the largest web "community" around, and Tripod is (I think) the 2nd-largest, and both already host the sites of a great many nonprofit organizations. My own site is at Tripod. I didn't want the pop-up advertising (which is what keeps the hosting free...), so I shelled out $35 for a year of ad-free web space. That's extremely cheap! GeoCities has a similar structure. My only complaint about GeoCities, where my site *used* to be, is that they get very uptight about commercial users. Tripod not only doesn't care, they even seek out small businesses-- I would highly recommend both of them. Mike Michael L. Olason wrote: > The Colorado Chapter of ASI is researching the costs of a Web Site. We > have an initial idea list for our Web Site, but need to carefully > consider ALL costing options for hosting the site. We would appreciate > any feedback regarding the pros and cons of your experiences with > different Internet Service Providers. Specifically, we are looking for > information on how much storage is provided, how much data transfer, > email accounts, File Transfer Protocol (FTP) access, log files, > technical support, experiences (good and bad), and costs per month or > year. > > Please reply to Susan Olason (oleduke@ix.netcom.com) off list and I > will provide a summary of comments for the list. > > Thanks for your help! -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:45:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Books on tape Hi Vicki-- I record books on tape for the Minnesota State Services for the Blind. I'm generally recording textbooks for college or postgraduate students. I've never yet recorded an index, nor for that matter, a table of contents, for any book. However, we do record tones (inaudible to normal hearing) that mark the beginning of a page, the beginning of a chapter, and the end of a particular segment of the recording. We also record an introductory statement at the beginning of each tape, noting the name of the book or publication, the name(s) of the section or chapter and page where the particular recording begins, and how many pages remain in that section/chapter. This information is also written (by hand) on the back of the reel-to-reel tape box, but I don't know if that information goes anywhere but to the tape cataloguer. That's a general outline of what we do here--I'm interested to hear from others. Regards, Terri ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Teresa A. Hudoba Indexers Plus: Indexing, Editing, and Other Useful Services tahudoba@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reality is for those who have no imagination. (bumper sticker) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In a message dated 98-06-08 17:57:37 EDT, Vicki B. writes: << I'm curious about what happens to back-of-the-book indexes when books are recorded onto tape. I'm not thinking so much about popular fiction, but more about textbooks that are recorded for the blind. Is an index included with page locators having been converted into tape position markers? Or is the poor listener required to "search" the tape with fast forward and reverse buttons, relying on memory for relative positions? Same question holds for Table of Contents. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:49:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C.C. Diepeveen" <106126.47@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? Hello, Here is a reply from a Dutch speaker. The title is quite fascinating, however it is not Dutch but German. And 'leer' could mean 'empty' but obviously not in this context, it can also mean 'theory', or 'what is being taught' or indeed 'belief'. My knowledge of German spelling is limited, but 'leer' should be capitalised as it is a noun. Hope this help= s. Good luck. Caroline Diepeveen Banchory, Scotland (UK) 106126.47@Compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C.C. Diepeveen" <106126.47@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? Hello Martha, Sorry, I hit the reply key too soon and my answer to your question was formulated too hastily. Most words in your book title seem to me German except for the word 'tusschen' which is definitely Dutch, but in an old fashioned spelling. Nowadays it is written as: 'tussen'. Also the spellin= g of 'leer' suggests it is Dutch rather than German, but the first word in the title 'Underscheit' seems to me much more German than Dutch. Your book title might therefore be old-Dutch but I am not sure how old an= d I am afraid that a dictionary of contemporary Dutch will not be of much help to you. I wish you good luck with your 'detective work' here, maybe = if you can let me know a bit more of the context in which you have come acro= ss this book title that I can be of more help to you. Best wishes, Caroline Diepeveen Banchory, Scotland (UK) 106126.47@Compuserve.com = ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:12:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: Books on tape At 02:50 PM 6/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >I'm curious about what happens to back-of-the-book indexes when books are > recorded >onto tape. I'm not thinking so much about popular fiction, but more about >textbooks that are recorded for the blind. Is an index included with page >locators having been converted into tape position markers? Or is the poor >listener required to "search" the tape with fast forward and reverse buttons, >relying on memory for relative positions? Same question holds for Table of >Contents. > >Just wondering... > >Vicki Hello, The visually-impaired college students we serve here receive human help in the form of a "reader". This person accompanies them to classes and the library; helps them make photocopies of reserve materials and locate books (we don't have textbooks on tapes for them); does their online searching based on the student's choices of search words and, of course, reads the articles and textbooks to them. (I sometimes wonder if these readers get college credits for taking that course.) I've not yet seen a "traditional" textbook, with end-of-chapter-exercises, on tape, but I have seen scholarly books on tape--sans indexes. Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:59:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re[2]: late indexes At 12:41 PM 6/8/98 PDT, Sam wrote: >Is there anyone out there who has difficulty meeting deadlines? What do >you tell your client when the index is going to be late? >I recently have had several of my indexes late an feel badly about it, >so, I reduced the price. > >Sam K. Contact your publisher as soon as you realize the index will be late. Since the index is usually the last item to come in, chances are the publisher has already made arrangements with the printing press and told the printer when to expect that book. The publisher needs to contact their printer ASAP to reschedule, so advance notice is very important. Erika Millen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:07:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robert Wood Subject: Of mice and keyboards II I apologize to all on the list for the garbled message with this same title, sent late (too late) last night. Here is the text as I intended it, before I sent it to Listserv instead of Index-L : I followed with great interest the discussions about carpel-tunnel syndrome on Index-L, especially because I found myself developing the symptoms. I have a large hand with short, blunt fingers, because, I firmly believe, they were cut off at the distal joint during the birthing process. As a result, I find gripping a mouse to be painful. Before I ordered my new computer, I tried every keyboard and mouse, trackball and touchpad I could find in the Seattle area, including most of those mentioned here in February. My new computer was delivered three days ago. When I ordered it, I specified a Microsoft Natural elite keyboard and a Logitech Marble FX trackball. My supplier's cost was $54 for the keyboard and $89 for the trackball. As you can imagine, I spent a heck of a lot of time on the new machine in the last three days, doing all the things one does when learning a new computer and upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95, while typing my wife's paper on Counseling Philosophy and Practice (said he modestly). Although I hate to plug Microsoft, the keyboard has improved my typing speed. The keys are much easier to reach than on any other keyboard I have tried - although my bowling-ball-sized knuckles obscure the numbers at the top of the keyboard - and the palm rest is truly ergonometric. The trackball looks like it belongs in the cockpit of Luke Skywalker's starfighter, but it works. It has four buttons, three that can be manipulated with the thumb, and the ball can be moved with fingers or thumb, or both for precise work. The bottom line is that my symptoms decreased enormously in just the three days I have been using the new keyboard and trackball. Granted, neither is cheap, but I think both are worth a close look if one is in the market for new equipment, and looking for somewhere to spend the check from that publisher who paid $5.50 a page for a three-entry-a-page index. Ed Wood "Often in Error, Never in Doubt" (old family motto) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 11:42:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Re[2]: late indexes I'll second what Erika wrote. Contact your editor as soon as you begin to suspect that the due date may be a problem. DO NOT wait til the last day. Ever. While we all want to take the time to do our best job, sometimes, despite the best intentions on the editor's part, it is absolutely impossible for the publisher to give you an extra day or 2. As Erika said, the printer is already scheduled. There may be reasons why that print date is absolutely mandated with no leeway at all. In that case, it falls to the indexer to do the best job he/she can in the time allotted, and get an index in. Sad but true. If a publisher's schedule is so tight that this is the case, we as indexers just have to live with it, and get an index in -- the best we can do in the time allotted. You would *never* want to be the one to cause a print run to be missed that way. NEVER. So you get an index in. Of course, this is the worst-case scenario, but it has happened to me. And believe me, I learned from the experience! The usual scenario is that I'll call the publisher/editor a week or so ahead and ask if there is any flexibility in the due date, saying that I can get the index in by the due date, but am running kind of tight and would appreciate an extra day or 2, so I can do my best edit and see the index with fresh eyes a day later before sending it in. Many, if not most times, my editor will say "sure, I can give you an extra day or 2". Nice. I don't ask if I don't need it, and I appreciate the flexibility. However, the scenario posited above is also possible, and if you are told that there is no flexibility in the due date, be ready to go into overdrive and get an index to your client by the due date .... if you ever want to work for that client again. Good scheduling is one of the tricks of the trade. Be careful! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 10:58:19 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II Were you aware that you can now buy an external Touchpad-on-a-cord to take the place of a mouse? My sister (also a carpal sufferer) got hooked on the Touchpad on her WinBook and bought a new one for her workstation at home, and she loves it. She says being able to drive it with a relaxed fingertip instead of a hand clenching a mouse makes all the difference. (Don't know the brand name offhand, but CompUSA carries them.) Mike Robert Wood wrote: > I apologize to all on the list for the garbled message with this same title, > sent late (too late) last night. Here is the text as I intended it, before I > sent it to Listserv instead of Index-L : > > I followed with great interest the discussions about carpel-tunnel syndrome on > Index-L, especially because I found myself developing the symptoms. I have a > large hand with short, blunt fingers, because, I firmly believe, they were cut > off at the distal joint during the birthing process. As a result, I find > gripping a mouse to be painful. Before I ordered my new computer, I tried > every keyboard and mouse, trackball and touchpad I could find in the Seattle > area, including most of those mentioned here in February. > > My new computer was delivered three days ago. When I ordered it, I specified > a Microsoft Natural elite keyboard and a Logitech Marble FX trackball. My > supplier's cost was $54 for the keyboard and $89 for the trackball. > > As you can imagine, I spent a heck of a lot of time on the new machine in the > last three days, doing all the things one does when learning a new computer > and upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95, while typing my wife's paper on > Counseling Philosophy and Practice (said he modestly). Although I hate to > plug Microsoft, the keyboard has improved my typing speed. The keys are much > easier to reach than on any other keyboard I have tried - although my > bowling-ball-sized knuckles obscure the numbers at the top of the keyboard - > and the palm rest is truly ergonometric. The trackball looks like it belongs > in the cockpit of Luke Skywalker's starfighter, but it works. It has four > buttons, three that can be manipulated with the thumb, and the ball can be > moved with fingers or thumb, or both for precise work. > > The bottom line is that my symptoms decreased enormously in just the three > days > I have been using the new keyboard and trackball. Granted, neither is cheap, > but I think both are worth a close look if one is in the market for new > equipment, and looking for somewhere to spend the check from that publisher > who paid $5.50 a page for a three-entry-a-page index. > > Ed Wood > "Often in Error, Never in Doubt" (old family motto) -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II I don't have carpal-tunnel, but I do have arthritis in my right wrist and very, very short fingers. I have been using the Microsoft Natural keyboard for about 6 months now, and absolutely agree with Ed's endorsement, much as I hate to plug Microsoft products. :-) (I've actually heard that the Wave keyboard is even better). My typing speed has increased dramatically and I no longer have the pain and numbness that I experienced with my regular keyboard. For people who do as much keying as most of us do, I highly recommend looking into it. It takes a little while to get used to, but once you do you will never go back. It's worth the investment (she said, knowing full well that her company had paid for hers). -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Wood [SMTP:WOODPILE42@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 11:08 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Of mice and keyboards II > > I apologize to all on the list for the garbled message with this same > title, > sent late (too late) last night. Here is the text as I intended it, > before I > sent it to Listserv instead of Index-L : > > I followed with great interest the discussions about carpel-tunnel > syndrome on > Index-L, especially because I found myself developing the symptoms. I > have a > large hand with short, blunt fingers, because, I firmly believe, they were > cut > off at the distal joint during the birthing process. As a result, I find > gripping a mouse to be painful. Before I ordered my new computer, I tried > every keyboard and mouse, trackball and touchpad I could find in the > Seattle > area, including most of those mentioned here in February. > > My new computer was delivered three days ago. When I ordered it, I > specified > a Microsoft Natural elite keyboard and a Logitech Marble FX trackball. My > supplier's cost was $54 for the keyboard and $89 for the trackball. > > As you can imagine, I spent a heck of a lot of time on the new machine in > the > last three days, doing all the things one does when learning a new > computer > and upgrading from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95, while typing my wife's paper > on > Counseling Philosophy and Practice (said he modestly). Although I hate to > plug Microsoft, the keyboard has improved my typing speed. The keys are > much > easier to reach than on any other keyboard I have tried - although my > bowling-ball-sized knuckles obscure the numbers at the top of the keyboard > - > and the palm rest is truly ergonometric. The trackball looks like it > belongs > in the cockpit of Luke Skywalker's starfighter, but it works. It has four > buttons, three that can be manipulated with the thumb, and the ball can be > moved with fingers or thumb, or both for precise work. > > The bottom line is that my symptoms decreased enormously in just the three > days > I have been using the new keyboard and trackball. Granted, neither is > cheap, > but I think both are worth a close look if one is in the market for new > equipment, and looking for somewhere to spend the check from that > publisher > who paid $5.50 a page for a three-entry-a-page index. > > Ed Wood > "Often in Error, Never in Doubt" (old family motto) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Re[2]: late indexes One of the benefits of being an in-house indexer is that we get an up-close look at all aspects of the publishing trade. Let me heartily second what Janet just wrote: If you are in danger of missing a deadline, call the publisher as soon as you know. Depending on the circumstances, you may have to turn in a "second-rate" product, but in some instances that print deadline is sacrosanct. The bottom line: It is up to the publisher, who must coordinate print schedules, shipping schedules, contract concerns, etc. to decide whether or not you can let the work slip. And as Janet said, you do NOT want to be the cause of a print schedule slipping! It could mean the end of your working with that publisher. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: JPerlman@AOL.COM [SMTP:JPerlman@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 11:43 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Re[2]: late indexes > > I'll second what Erika wrote. Contact your editor as soon as you begin to > suspect that the due date may be a problem. DO NOT wait til the last day. > Ever. > > While we all want to take the time to do our best job, sometimes, despite > the > best intentions on the editor's part, it is absolutely impossible for the > publisher to give you an extra day or 2. As Erika said, the printer is > already scheduled. There may be reasons why that print date is absolutely > mandated with no leeway at all. In that case, it falls to the indexer to > do > the best job he/she can in the time allotted, and get an index in. Sad > but > true. If a publisher's schedule is so tight that this is the case, we as > indexers just have to live with it, and get an index in -- the best we can > do > in the time allotted. > > You would *never* want to be the one to cause a print run to be missed > that > way. NEVER. So you get an index in. > > Of course, this is the worst-case scenario, but it has happened to me. > And > believe me, I learned from the experience! > > The usual scenario is that I'll call the publisher/editor a week or so > ahead > and ask if there is any flexibility in the due date, saying that I can get > the > index in by the due date, but am running kind of tight and would > appreciate an > extra day or 2, so I can do my best edit and see the index with fresh eyes > a > day later before sending it in. Many, if not most times, my editor will > say > "sure, I can give you an extra day or 2". Nice. I don't ask if I don't > need > it, and I appreciate the flexibility. However, the scenario posited above > is > also possible, and if you are told that there is no flexibility in the due > date, be ready to go into overdrive and get an index to your client by the > due > date .... if you ever want to work for that client again. > > Good scheduling is one of the tricks of the trade. Be careful! > > Janet Perlman > Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:12:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Re[2]: late indexes I'm jumping in late on this, but I'll have to second and third Erika's and Janet's comments. Call the editor ASAP. Now, I've worked as an in-house editor as well, and sometimes (not all the time and it depends on the type of publisher) the pub can make a few quickie arrangements to accomodate you. For example, they can send it to a local compositor who can set it. Sometimes the editors aren't aware that you speed things along by sending a disk where the material can just be poured in. I've seen editors dump the disks and send hard copy to the compositor to be set (discouraging for all you who send disks, I know--they do it less and less now). But still, there are eidtors/production managers who schedule the time to have the index actually rekeyed in (I know that's not the case with Erika's pub or any computer manual pubs, for that matter). So an explanation that you are sending the disk and it can be poured in if you are told what file format is needed can buy you some time, too. Also, I can convince those that are just entering the electronic age to receive the index via electronic mail. I've even faxed the hard copy. And, sometimes I've been able to arrange emailing the index directly to the compositor. So there are some things that you can do to buy some extra time. Lastly, I have only dropped some charges in one instance. It wasn't an index. My dog ate my homework... actually she chewed some corners of some camera ready copy. Although it didn't get any text, it would take some extra money/effort on their part to clean it up. Don't know why I did it. They never called me again anyway. Oh well. Hope this helps. Leslie Frank Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:29:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II Ed, I found the track balls that required thumb manipulation aggravated my own joints (my right thumb joint looks like someone snapped it outward at the base while the left one is straight). I switched to the TrackMan Vista, which uses index and/or middle finger to rotate, and had instant relief. I made the thumb button my drop and drag function (as I rarely use it) and that made even more improvement. I have recently switched to a Cirque Power Cat touchpad and am deciding which I like best. Don't know how you manage to use the 'Natural' keyboard, though...my husband has one and when I use it I feel like I am playing an accordian! ;D Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:34:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Redden Organization: OPTUM Software Subject: remove Please remove my name from this list. rredden@optum.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 09:44:33 -0700 Reply-To: jthomas3@csulb.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library Subject: Re: Books on tape Anne Taylor said > (I sometimes wonder if these readers get > college credits for taking that course.) When I was in graduate school, I read one semester for a blind student. While I got paid a small hourly salary for reading, a bigger advantage to me was that she was taking the same classes I was! ;-) -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Re: late indexes In-Reply-To: <199806090413.AAA18638@lamb.sas.com> from "Automatic digest processor" at Jun 9, 98 00:00:16 am Sonsie wrote: > I think the very WORST thing is a poorly-prepared index, not one that > is a day or two late. I would rather be a day or two late, and present > an adequate-to-excellent index, than be strictly on time with a product > that is not at least a reasonable facsimile of my best work. Speaking as a freelance indexer: I agree. Of course, if you do this on a regular basis, you will find your client base shrinking. :-) In my 12 years of indexing, I've missed some deadlines. I missed a couple due to illness. I've missed a few because of computer/printer problems. And I've missed a couple because I misjudged the amount of time required for the project. I try to notify my client as soon as I realize that I might miss the deadline. Even though I'm tempted to grovel, and even though I tend to stammer and stutter through such things, I always just state the facts in a straightforward manner, and I practice before I call. I always have a realistic date in mind so that I can tell them when I *will* have the index ready. With one exception, I've never been more than a day late. Sometimes I lower my fee, depending on the circumstances, but I don't do this automatically. No one has ever asked me to do it. Fortunately, my late indexes have been with established clients, and they actually went out of their way to make me feel better about the situation. This is one of those times that a reputation for good work really pays off! :-) Speaking as an editor who works exclusively with indexes and indexers: I still agree with Sonsie. I would rather get an index a couple of days late than to get an index that requires a lot of clean-up time from me. Joan sasjcs@unx.sas.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:00:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: late indexes Friendly snip: > -----Original Message----- > From: Joan Stout [SMTP:sasjcs@UNX.SAS.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 12:44 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: late indexes > > > I still agree with Sonsie. I would rather get an index a couple of days > late than to get an index that requires a lot of clean-up time from me. > My qualification to this statement is that it should be up to the editor-- not the indexer-- to make this call. Since we work primarily with legislation, a lot of our work is extraordinarily time-sensitive, so time becomes more important than quality. No one likes it, but it's a reality. Also, as has been pointed out, there may be other factors of which a freelancer would not be aware. During busy seasons here, for example, scheduling printing time on the presses is a major consideration. Frequently we simply cannot allow those dates to slip--even by a day or so. If we miss our scheduled print time it may be weeks or even a month before we can reschedule printing press time, and that would be a disaster in many, many ways. In a large (or even small) corporation, there are financial considerations, too. No one wants to be the one to have to stand before an executive committee and explain why $50,000 in projected revenue slipped from one month (or, god forbid, one quarter) to the next, and if the only explanation the person on the spot can offer is, "The freelance indexer didn't return the index on time," you'd better believe that they will be told in no uncertain terms to drop that freelancer from further projects! By their very nature, indexes occur at the end of the production process, so we don't have the luxury of time slippages. Of course, all of this depends on the publishers that you work for and their schedules and business concerns, but as I said before, and at the risk of being redundant, it is not your call to make. Let the editor know and let them make the call. -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:12:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: indexing military history Hi all, I need some advice. I'm currently indexing a collection of letters of local Civil War soldiers. There are many references to Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division; Officers of Company A...; Company B...; Company C...; ...up through Company K. My audience is mostly genealogists and researchers. Is there someone out there with experience with military history like this? I suspect that my audience will want as much info as possible (I don't have serious space constraints.) How should these groups be indexed? Do I need each index entry to appear like: Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division ? Suggestions? Are there online references that could help me with this? TIA, Peg Peg Mauer | Manager of STC Indexing SIG Communication Link | co-leader of Western NY ASI chapter Indexing, Technical Writing | phone: (518) 359-8616 Piercefield, NY 12973 | fax: (518) 359-8235 http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 14:34:53 +0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Re: indexing military history In-Reply-To: <98Jun9.141431-0400_edt.1039-127610+26@email.unc.edu> I suggest that if you have access to the Library of Congress authority files, you look at the headings for the Union and Confederate armies. That will give you some idea of how the armies were organized (although with the Confederate army, the logic of organization, or lack of it, can seem daunting). After you've done that, you may get some ideas about whether you want to impose some sort of hierarchy on your headings (i.e. putting all the subdivisions of a particular regiment together under that regiment)or to enter directly under the lowest level. Whatever you decide, you'll probably want lots of cross-references. ________________________________________________________________________ Roberta Engleman Rare Book Collection Wilson Library CB# 3936 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (919) 962-1143 On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Peg Mauer wrote: > Hi all, > > I need some advice. I'm currently indexing a collection of letters of local > Civil War soldiers. There are many references to Company F, 31st Regiment, > 14th Brigade, 4th Division; Officers of Company A...; Company B...; Company > C...; ...up through Company K. My audience is mostly genealogists and > researchers. Is there someone out there with experience with military history > like this? I suspect that my audience will want as much info as possible (I > don't have serious space constraints.) How should these groups be indexed? Do > I need each index entry to appear like: > Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:20:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II An internet shopping experience. One of the computer megastores told us about this site as an alternate for getting odd cables and such. https://www.thesupplynet.com/ And I just cut and copied the URL so the s after http must be okay. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:21:28 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: indexing military history Peg wrote: << I need some advice. I'm currently indexing a collection of letters of local Civil War soldiers. There are many references to Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division; Officers of Company A...; Company B...; Company C...; ...up through Company K. My audience is mostly genealogists and researchers. Is there someone out there with experience with military history like this? I suspect that my audience will want as much info as possible (I don't have serious space constraints.) How should these groups be indexed? Do I need each index entry to appear like: Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division >> Whoa, Peg! I was just about to check in about the same thing (although I think I've decided). I'm indexing a 1000-page encyclopedia of the Vietnam War, which also has a billion references to these things. One of my main audiences is veterans, who will be looking up their company, division, etc. Here's what I've decided for the moment (also waiting for advice from the author): I've been told by someone who knows military stuff a little better than I do that military people identify with their division. So I'm going to index under, for instance, 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) ("Screaming Eagles"). See reference from the nickname. Battalions as subentries under that main heading. I think I'm going to group all of this stuff under its numbers at the beginning of the index, since there's so very much of it, and since the numbers are the identifying feature. I'll probably also end up with sub-sub entries for battles, etc. under the individual battalions. What do people think about this? Here's another related question: --what is the term that includes all kinds of military units (divisions, brigades, etc.)? Units? As in U.S. Army, see also specific units? I'm sure I'll have more, so if there are any military experts out there, I'd love to know who you are! By the way, I just imported the whole Order of Battle chapter (which has all of these units listed) straight into Macrex, converting the sub-units into subentries under their divisions. Yay! I don't have to type them all! Thanks for advice, Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:35:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robert Wood Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II In a message dated 98-06-09 12:30:37 EDT, you write: << I found the track balls that required thumb manipulation aggravated my own joints ( >> The Logitech trackball does not require one's thumb on the ball, but it helps if the operator is. Seriously, one can use any finger or thumb, or any combination of them. Ed Wood ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:35:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Coffield, Janice M." Subject: Re: indexing military history Keep in mind there is a difference in referring to the modern military versus Civil war military. Do Mi is correct that the military (Army especially) refer to their assignments mainly by division, e.g 101st Airborne. They also tend to refer to their specialty (MOS) as well, for example "I'm a 98B - Military police" (I don't remember the exact number if anyone tries to look this up!) - I don't know if that'll come up in either book. As for civil war soldiers, they may have referred to their division, but they added the state for identification, for example "12th Virginia." If a division was big, they may have added the company (A, B, C, etc) as well. I'm no military historian, but my husband is and I'll add to this if he tells me something more useful tomorrow! Janice Coffield Lexis Law Publishing > -----Original Message----- > From: DStaub11@AOL.COM [SMTP:DStaub11@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 3:21 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: indexing military history > > Peg wrote: > > << I need some advice. I'm currently indexing a collection of letters of > local > Civil War soldiers. There are many references to Company F, 31st > Regiment, > 14th Brigade, 4th Division; Officers of Company A...; Company B...; > Company > C...; ...up through Company K. My audience is mostly genealogists and > researchers. Is there someone out there with experience with military > history > like this? I suspect that my audience will want as much info as possible > (I > don't have serious space constraints.) How should these groups be > indexed? Do > I need each index entry to appear like: > Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division >> > > Whoa, Peg! I was just about to check in about the same thing (although I > think > I've decided). I'm indexing a 1000-page encyclopedia of the Vietnam War, > which > also has a billion references to these things. One of my main audiences is > veterans, who will be looking up their company, division, etc. Here's what > I've decided for the moment (also waiting for advice from the author): > > I've been told by someone who knows military stuff a little better than I > do > that military people identify with their division. So I'm going to index > under, for instance, 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) ("Screaming > Eagles"). > See reference from the nickname. Battalions as subentries under that main > heading. I think I'm going to group all of this stuff under its numbers at > the > beginning of the index, since there's so very much of it, and since the > numbers are the identifying feature. I'll probably also end up with > sub-sub > entries for battles, etc. under the individual battalions. > > What do people think about this? > > Here's another related question: > > --what is the term that includes all kinds of military units (divisions, > brigades, etc.)? Units? As in U.S. Army, see also specific units? > > I'm sure I'll have more, so if there are any military experts out there, > I'd > love to know who you are! > > By the way, I just imported the whole Order of Battle chapter (which has > all > of these units listed) straight into Macrex, converting the sub-units into > subentries under their divisions. Yay! I don't have to type them all! > > Thanks for advice, > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:27:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: indexing military history Janice Coffield wrote: >Keep in mind there is a difference in referring to the modern military >versus Civil war military. Do Mi is correct that the military (Army >especially) refer to their assignments mainly by division, e.g 101st >Airborne. They also tend to refer to their specialty (MOS) as well, for >example "I'm a 98B - Military police" (I don't remember the exact number if >anyone tries to look this up!) - I don't know if that'll come up in either >book. >As for civil war soldiers, they may have referred to their division, but >they added the state for identification, for example "12th Virginia." If a >division was big, they may have added the company (A, B, C, etc) as well. >I'm no military historian, but my husband is and I'll add to this if he >tells me something more useful tomorrow! > I was just about to chime in with similar advice. Being a Civil War buff and relic hunter I've always found the brigade and then the specific company to be the primary search item, at least in terms of individual soldiers. In the case Janice mentions 12th Va is not a division but a brigade, and should also always include a designation as to what branch of service. There was for example no doubt a 12th Va Infantry; 12th Va Cavalry; etc. A division was a collection of brigades. As mentioned by Janice I would list all the companies of each brigade as subentries. I'm wondering what would be the best way to cover what brigades were in each division, what divisions were in each Corps (this changed somewhat as a function of campaign), and what Corps were in the various armies (this also changed as a function of time). For anyone interested in the Civil War I have some Civil War relics in my online museum on my web page. Follow the link to the "Spectrum Secrets Gallery". Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:03:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II The s after the http is for entering the site in a Secure mode as when you are going to impart confidential information such as a credit card number. Craig Brown On 6/9/98 14:20 S. Greenhouse wrote: >An internet shopping experience. One of the computer >megastores told us about this site as an alternate for >getting odd cables and such. > >https://www.thesupplynet.com/ > >And I just cut and copied the URL so the s after http must >be okay. > >Shelley Greenhouse >greenhou@erols.com > ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:01:55 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: indexing military history Welllllll..., I have about 3-1/2 decades of experience with the military and military history, both directly and indirectly. As as been noted, the armies of the Civil War (um, make that "War Between the States"...) were formed and organized quite differently from those of WWII or Vietnam. The way military history books usually handle this is (1) if there are a number of units from different states, organize them by the state, with the regiments as subheads (and companies as subheads of that, if there're enough to warrant it); the great majority of regiments were raised by the states as militia, not by the federal government. Or (2), if this is a book about a single regiment or company, like a collection of letters (I've done several of those, both editing and indexing), just use a form heading like REGIMENTS:, with the numbered companies below that. You can the same, in any case, with brigades and divisions, which were as apt to be known by the commanders' names as by a standard number. Also, the unit numbers often changed later in the War, as units shrank and were reorganized, so you'd be looking at perhaps a lot of cross-refs. And then (3), I would list under brigades and divisions (and corps, if you've got those, too) only references to that larger unit *as a whole*. Soldiers (usually) didn't identify with a division or corps in those days; it was too big. The company was made up (usually) of guys from your town or neighborhood and the regiment probably was formed all from recruits or draftees from your county and maybe the county next door. Finally (4), go to the library and browse in the 973.711 section, which is unit histories and such. Take a look at how earlier indexers have handled it! I love doing military history volumes but I have to be careful because i get too caught up in the readin' and forget I'm supposed to be indexin'. :) (At the moment, I'm alternating between doing Robert Mondavi's new biography and Amir Aczel's new book on extraterrestrial life -- not a musket in sight!) Mike Peg Mauer wrote: > Hi all, > > I need some advice. I'm currently indexing a collection of letters of local > Civil War soldiers. There are many references to Company F, 31st Regiment, > 14th Brigade, 4th Division; Officers of Company A...; Company B...; Company > C...; ...up through Company K. My audience is mostly genealogists and > researchers. Is there someone out there with experience with military history > like this? I suspect that my audience will want as much info as possible (I > don't have serious space constraints.) How should these groups be indexed? Do > I need each index entry to appear like: > Company F, 31st Regiment, 14th Brigade, 4th Division > ? > Suggestions? Are there online references that could help me with this? TIA, > > Peg > > Peg Mauer | Manager of STC Indexing SIG > Communication Link | co-leader of Western NY ASI chapter > Indexing, Technical Writing | phone: (518) 359-8616 > Piercefield, NY 12973 | fax: (518) 359-8235 > http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:24:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Of mice and keyboards II On 6/9/98 10:07 Robert Wood wrote: >I have been using the new keyboard and trackball. Granted, neither is cheap, >but I think both are worth a close look if one is in the market for new >equipment, and looking for somewhere to spend the check from that publisher >who paid $5.50 a page for a three-entry-a-page index. Forget the trackball. Where do we find clients like this?? ;) Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 18:29:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: Duplicate name Bookend All those with names similar to BooksEnd please stand up. We seem to have a mail problem. Thank you, Annette BooksEnd@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 20:30:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: indexing military history Thanks Mike for that informative post. Great points. I hope noone read mine and saw how I wrote brigade when I meant regiment. Man this Alzheimer's is tough! I feel like such an idiot. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 21:54:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: indexing citations Kevin wrote, quoting Sonsie, << I absolutely agree and when doing author indexing, I include all known >authors for each cite. Everyone given credit for a work in the references >deserves (and I think the need to be accurate requires) credit. This may explain why some folks have been saying stuff like "what's the big deal about name indexes; I find them very simple". I absolutely include every single name. It's not for me to judge who the "important" researchers are. In a detailed scholarly name index this can easily amount to 3-6 or more _times_ the amount of work involved versus just indexing the first name; >> Just to be clear, I index every name that appears in the text, which is usually quite a few! As a matter of fact, I'm going to quiz my clients about this (since I've been indexing only names that appear in the text for the last 12 years with no complaints!)--maybe I should change. But I still haven't heard addressed my concern about a reader looking up a page for a particular person, not finding that person on the page, and not knowing which citation they belong in. It's true that how many names in each citation are actually listed in the text is determined by the style of the field, as several people have pointed out. But that still means that whoever made up those styles decided that it wasn't important for the reader of the text to see all of the names in the citation. That's what I meant when I said I thought it was logical to follow that division in deciding what to index. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: test, sorry Sorry. Just a test; my email is a little screwed up. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: indexing citations Do Mi wrote: >Just to be clear, I index every name that appears in the text, which is >usually quite a few! As a matter of fact, I'm going to quiz my clients about >this (since I've been indexing only names that appear in the text for the last >12 years with no complaints!)--maybe I should change. But I still haven't >heard addressed my concern about a reader looking up a page for a particular >person, not finding that person on the page, and not knowing which citation >they belong in. > I'm interested in finding out what they tell you. If there's a consensus along the lines of your approach, or someone can show me a reference describing how it's supposed to be done I'd be quite happy to switch. I went along blissfully indexing just names that appear in the text for many years until I started to examine previous name indexes carefully and discovered they'd indexed all the names. Now for me it's one of those deals where you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. I get all these conflicting emotions about it, and when I see a list of 22 names like I did last night I want so bad to just say to heck with the last 18 or so, but I can't. Oh yeah if this post sounds weird just wait till early next week when my name index psychosis is anticipated to peak. slowly going (more) nuts Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 20:04:44 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: HTML index of HTML files If several printed pages have the same index entry, the printed index has an entry like this: Whatever 15, 72, 104 If several Windows help topics have the same index entry (keyword), the help viewer displays a dialog box with the topic titles listed: Keyword: Whatever Topics Found: Atsa Buncha Hooey If several HTML pages have the same index entry, your HTML "index" page could use the page titles as links and the common keyword to group them, like this: Whatever <---- not a link Itsa Lotta Malarkey But that's not quite the same thing: You're really creating second-level index entries out of the page titles. Given the mechanics of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword refer to multiple pages. Any ideas? If this subject is inappropriate for INDEX-L, please send them to me off-list. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 20:19:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C. Dodge" Subject: Re: Books on tape Greetings, Your message fascinated me - your work sounds very interesting. Would you mind telling me how you got into this field? What advice would you give someone interested in this type of work? Many thanks. Sincerely, Christine Dodge Final Draft Document Services Corvallis, Oregon At 09:45 AM 6/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi Vicki-- > >I record books on tape for the Minnesota State Services for the Blind. I'm >generally recording textbooks for college or postgraduate students. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:30:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: postmodernism again Just couldn't resist this joke from the section on Postmodernism in my folklore encyclopedia: What do you get when you cross a member of the Mafia with a deconstructionist? An offer you can't understand. :-) Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 23:32:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: indexing citations Kevin wrote: << I'm interested in finding out what they tell you. If there's a consensus along the lines of your approach, or someone can show me a reference describing how it's supposed to be done I'd be quite happy to switch. slowly going (more) nuts >> I'll report back if I get any kind of consensus! My guess is that none of them have thought about it. Hope I don't come back with toothpaste stains! Good luck with your index! Do Mi (presently drowning in brigades and battalions) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:54:03 +0200 Reply-To: maddox@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Maddox Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? Hi Martha That looks more like German to me, or some dialect of Dutch or German - perhaps an old dialect? The modern Dutch would be something like: "Onderscheid tussen rechte en valse leer." Common nouns are not capitalized as they are in German. "Leer" means doctrine or theory. My knowledge of Dutch comes from having lived in the Netherlands for six years. I speak the language fluently, but am by no means a scholar of its history and dialects. I hope this helps/ Kind regards, Sarah Maddox Freelance Writing and Indexing http://users.iafrica.com/m/ma/maddox Martha Osgood wrote: > A question for a Dutch-speaker: > > Is this book title spelled and capped correctly? > Underscheit tusschen rechte und falsche leer > > Many thanks. My German heritage translates this as 'the difference between > correct and false empty' - obviously I'm wrong since it should say > something like "belief" or "faith" or ? > > Martha > Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:17:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: indexing citations At 09:54 PM 6/9/1998 EDT, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >Just to be clear, I index every name that appears in the text, which is >usually quite a few! As a matter of fact, I'm going to quiz my clients about >this (since I've been indexing only names that appear in the text for the last >12 years with no complaints!)--maybe I should change. But I still haven't >heard addressed my concern about a reader looking up a page for a particular >person, not finding that person on the page, and not knowing which citation >they belong in. It's my impression that a good deal of the time, the editor and the author never really USE the index to see how it works, or see if you've left out Smith on page 21. I've been doing a multi-volume tax preparation series for at least seven years; each and every year, I ask both the lead author and the editor for a list of corrections and additions that either they or users have found. In all those years, I've gotten one short list of about six things...none of which were actually items I'd left out, but rather different cross-references the author wanted included. My point here is that in many cases nobody seems to notice or care if the author index, at least, is not "complete" according to whatever instructions you were given. (I'm sure if it were very obviously much too short, somebody would notice, but I doubt whether, in many cases, anybody actually checks each and every citation.) So, if you don't normally index the third or fourth author of a work because only the first two are actually cited on a page, it must be okay or you'd have heard about it by now! You're right that there is no way I can think of to track down Smith if her name is not actually included in a citation on a specific page, so in a sort of universal sense you shouldn't need to include her. But I take the tack that the people who really use/read author indexes are the authors [of the cited works] themselves...who will, indeed, know that Jones, et al. really is Jones, Brown, Smith, and Jarvis. >It's true that how many names in each citation are actually listed in the text >is determined by the style of the field, as several people have pointed out. >But that still means that whoever made up those styles decided that it wasn't >important for the reader of the text to see all of the names in the citation. >That's what I meant when I said I thought it was logical to follow that >division in deciding what to index. I think the reason why only X number of authors are included in text cites (depending on whose rules you are going by) is for reasons of space and consistency. If the secondary authors really weren't important, they wouldn't be listed in the bibliography...and I've never found a bib yet that didn't spell out ALL the authors' names. So...unless I'm told otherwise, I always do include all the names. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 22:17:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: postmodernism again At 11:30 PM 6/9/1998 EDT, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >Just couldn't resist this joke from the section on Postmodernism in my >folklore encyclopedia: > >What do you get when you cross a member of the Mafia with a deconstructionist? > >An offer you can't understand. This is great! Too funny...thanks for posting! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 02:01:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Tudor Subject: Book on Names Hi all. A week or two ago, there was a discussion of references for names. I think the book that was recommended was The Book of Names or some such. I saved the file at the time but then had a crash which scrambled a large section of my hard drive. Does anyone remember those titles and authors? Thanks in advance. Beth Tudor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:34:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: Any Dutch-speakers? Martha, Having had extensive (2 years ;D) German lessons this was too fun to resist. Your title looks like Understanding (or differentiating between?) Good Teaching and Bad Theory. Or perhaps Understanding Good Tushy and Bad Leers -- a handbook for dirty old men? Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 06:14:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: indexing citations In-Reply-To: <199806100525.WAA03108@powergrid.electriciti.com> Agreement and similar experience with Sonsie print index feedback (other than one author who checked a long work in progress with an early set of page proofs and corrently reported that all index entries had the wrong page locators) At 10:17 PM 6/9/98 -0700, Sonsie wrote: >You're right that there is no way I can think of to track down Smith if her >name is not actually included in a citation on a specific page, so in a sort >of universal sense you shouldn't need to include her. But I take the tack >that the people who really use/read author indexes are the authors [of the >cited works] themselves...who will, indeed, know that Jones et al. really >is Jones, Brown, Smith, and Jarvis. > Also each and every reader should be able to figure out the et al. conventions and check the references for et al.s on a given page. It's clear (from the manuscripts I deal with) that academic rigor is declining in the English-speaking world, but we don't have to declare defeat. I repeat. If someone's work is cited, they should be in an author index. I checked a *long* time ago with my primary publisher and they were shocked that only the lead authors would be in an author index after the first citation. The names that appear in print in APA-style works do not necessarily reflect that named authors do more work than others. Two authors are always cited--just because three folks collaborate does not mean the third is less worthy of credit. Also et al.s for a year that begin with the same surnames include all surnames up to one that is different (unless they are all the same and a, b, and so on are assigned to the year). It's arbitrary and is not intended to do anything other than differentiate between references--at least the differentiation is what is defined in the style guide. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:55:08 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Books on tape Hi Christine-- I should first note that this is volunteer work for me. In one of my previous lives, I recorded news briefs about the activities of the Minnesota Legislature. I always enjoyed recording--and I love to read--so it seemed a logical thing for me to pursue. I had to submit a detailed application for the position (they weed out more than 50% of the applicants based on this) and take a verbal "reading" test (only about 1/3 of these people are accepted) before beginning "on the job." Bonnie Lindstrom is the volunteer coordinator here in Minnesota. You can reach her at 612-642-0882 or 1-800-652-9000. I think you could give her a call to find out if she knows of any opportunities near you. Or check with any local organizations that work with/serve blind and vision-impaired people. Regards, Terri ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Teresa A. Hudoba Indexers Plus: Indexing, Editing, and Other Useful Services tahudoba@aol.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reality is for those who have no imagination. (bumper sticker) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In a message dated 98-06-09 23:19:57 EDT, you write: << Subj: Re: Books on tape Greetings, Your message fascinated me - your work sounds very interesting. Would you mind telling me how you got into this field? What advice would you give someone interested in this type of work? Many thanks. Sincerely, Christine Dodge Final Draft Document Services Corvallis, Oregon At 09:45 AM 6/9/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi Vicki-- > >I record books on tape for the Minnesota State Services for the Blind. I'm >generally recording textbooks for college or postgraduate students. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:57:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files I would appreciate a reply to the list. I am facing a similar dilemma in indexing our in-house newsletter (html format). I had thought to use the newsletter date as the locator: email, 28Ap98a, 28Ap98b, 17Ma98 Any more creative ideas would be much appreciated. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: David M. Brown [mailto:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 10:05 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: HTML index of HTML files If several printed pages have the same index entry, the printed index has an entry like this: Whatever 15, 72, 104 If several Windows help topics have the same index entry (keyword), the help viewer displays a dialog box with the topic titles listed: Keyword: Whatever Topics Found: Atsa Buncha Hooey If several HTML pages have the same index entry, your HTML "index" page could use the page titles as links and the common keyword to group them, like this: Whatever <---- not a link Itsa Lotta Malarkey But that's not quite the same thing: You're really creating second-level index entries out of the page titles. Given the mechanics of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword refer to multiple pages. Any ideas? If this subject is inappropriate for INDEX-L, please send them to me off-list. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:59:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jean A. Thompson" Subject: Commonplace books A few years ago I took a writing course given at an art college where we did a combination of writing and art work. Some of my classmates had large blank books in which they kept a kind of "illustrated journal" as well as their class work. I bought myself one back then at an art supply store. They had many kinds and sizes available there at that time though I don't recall if any were lined. None were tabbed. The paper was thick enough to accomodate art work as well as writing. The one I bought was 8 1/2" X 11" and about 1-1 1/2" thick with a sturdy, plain, black binding. But I never could bring myself to write in it! However, after reading the comments here, perhaps I will. It sounds like fun and something I'd like. Once I heard Grace Paley read from one of her works at Bowdoin College. Afterward someone asked if she kept a journal. Her reply? "I _have_ a journal but I don't _keep_ a journal." A lot of heads nodded in recognition including mine. ******************************************************************************** Jean A. Thompson PHONE: (518) 442-3628 Monographic Cataloger FAX: (518) 442-3630 University at Albany/SUNY University Library, B-35 E-MAIL: thompson@cnsvax.albany.edu 1400 Washington Avenue Albany, NY 12222 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:00:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: late indexes If anyone wants real-life evidence that freelancers who habitually don't meet deadlines lose business, here's some. Yesterday I agreed to index a book for an established client, a big NY publisher. The author has published over a dozen books for another publisher and always wanted an acquaintance (or friend, I'm not sure) to index them. The indexes were fine, but always late. Then the author moved to this publisher, whose editors did not want to hire that indexer because he was late for them as well. They gave him one chance, that index was late, and for subsequent books the editor has hired other indexers, and won't give the late indexer any other business. I'm sure that if you have a good relationship with a client and follow the advice given here to contact the client as early as possible to renegotiate a deadline, you won't lose a client for one missed deadline. But don't make it a habit! Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 07:37:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files If you're going to use dates with computer files it is best to use something of the form: 980428a 980428b 980517 this will sort into proper date order (for the next year and a half at least). To get Year 2000 compliance you might try: (April 28 is the 118th day of the year.) 1998118a 1998118b 1998137 You may want to look at the Web pages of a couple on-line magazines to see how they do it. ComputerWorld and Government Executive are two that I know of that have over a years worth of issues on-line. ---"McCullough, Elizabeth W" wrote: > > I would appreciate a reply to the list. I am facing a similar dilemma in > indexing our in-house newsletter (html format). I had thought to use the > newsletter date as the locator: > > email, 28Ap98a, 28Ap98b, 17Ma98 > > Any more creative ideas would be much appreciated. > > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David M. Brown [mailto:dmbrown@brown-inc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 10:05 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: HTML index of HTML files > > > If several printed pages have the same index entry, the printed index > has an entry like this: > > Whatever 15, 72, 104 > > If several Windows help topics have the same index entry (keyword), the > help viewer displays a dialog box with the topic titles listed: > > Keyword: Whatever > > Topics Found: Atsa > Buncha > Hooey > > If several HTML pages have the same index entry, your HTML "index" page > could use the page titles as links and the common keyword to group them, > like this: > > Whatever <---- not a link > Itsa > Lotta > Malarkey > > But that's not quite the same thing: You're really creating > second-level index entries out of the page titles. Given the mechanics > of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword > refer to multiple pages. > > Any ideas? If this subject is inappropriate for INDEX-L, please send > them to me off-list. > > --David > > ======================= > David M. Brown > Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com > ======================= > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:12:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files In-Reply-To: <199806100308.XAA26228@camel23.mindspring.com> This is essentially the problem of having a one-to-one index jump relationship in HMTL help ( and some other systems). It makes your index longer and more complex because it can't do what you want - provide a one-to-many relationship like WinHelp does. There's probably a way around it -- In HTMLHelp systems, special scripts provide a "topics found" dialog box similar to WinHelp's. Lacking those special scripts, and probably not wanting to compile your file as HTMLhelp, you could borrow the idea and have your index entry jump to a new page displaying just that subsection expanded out or just the titles. If you were really good you could probably make it look virtually invisible. I'm not that good... When I do WinHelp indexes, I often get the writers to provide me with topics that can be used by the index - they are menu screens and act like third level heads for complex topics - you could borrow that idea here. Printing color (clicking here shows you a page of all the color third level entri es) greyscale (click here and you would see all the grayscale entries) high-end (etc) Jan Wright At 08:04 PM 6/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >If several printed pages have the same index entry, the printed index >has an entry like this: > > Whatever 15, 72, 104 > >If several Windows help topics have the same index entry (keyword), the >help viewer displays a dialog box with the topic titles listed: > > Keyword: Whatever > > Topics Found: Atsa > Buncha > Hooey > >If several HTML pages have the same index entry, your HTML "index" page >could use the page titles as links and the common keyword to group them, >like this: > > Whatever <---- not a link > Itsa > Lotta > Malarkey > >But that's not quite the same thing: You're really creating >second-level index entries out of the page titles. Given the mechanics >of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword >refer to multiple pages. > >Any ideas? If this subject is inappropriate for INDEX-L, please send >them to me off-list. > >--David > > ======================= > David M. Brown > Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com > ======================= > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:25:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Martin L. White" Subject: Re: postmodernism again Do Mi: That's great. I'll use it. Thanks. Martin >Just couldn't resist this joke from the section on Postmodernism in my >folklore encyclopedia: > >What do you get when you cross a member of the Mafia with a deconstructionist? > >An offer you can't understand. > >:-) > >Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:34:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Thanks to the Dutch Speakers Jeanne Cope, Sarah Maddox, Sam Andrusko, Sharon Huges, Caroline Diepeveen, Nancy Noyes - you're on my good list. Many thanks to you generous Dutch speakers and almost-Dutch speakers! Sarah caught that the sentence was in Old Dutch, and I realized that the book the Au is quoting from is by Adam Pastor (1500-1570), so I don't think I'll query it, after all. Martha Back Words Special thanks to Nancy for her wicked humor! ___________________________________ Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:57:14 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files Jan C. Wright wrote: > > ... you could ... > have your index entry jump to a new page displaying just that > subsection expanded out or just the titles. > > Printing > color (see a page of all the color third-level entries) > greyscale (see all the grayscale entries) > high-end (etc) Indeed, using additional HTML files (to simulate the Topics Found dialog box of WinHelp and HTMLhelp) was the only other solution I had thought of. But I'm trying to limit the solution to a single file and standard (simple) HTML. Many people still get lost as windows begin to stack up, and some browsers can't handle the HTML extensions that let you create self-closing windows. Thanks for the feedback, --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:37:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Taylor Subject: Re: indexing military history At 04:27 PM 6/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >Janice Coffield wrote: >>Keep in mind there is a difference in referring to the modern military >>versus Civil war military. Do Mi is correct that the military (Army >>especially) refer to their assignments mainly by division, e.g 101st >>Airborne. They also tend to refer to their specialty (MOS) as well, for >>example "I'm a 98B - Military police" (I don't remember the exact number if >>anyone tries to look this up!) - I don't know if that'll come up in either >>book. >>As for civil war soldiers, they may have referred to their division, but >>they added the state for identification, for example "12th Virginia." If a >>division was big, they may have added the company (A, B, C, etc) as well. >>I'm no military historian, but my husband is and I'll add to this if he >>tells me something more useful tomorrow! I've had to deal with documents about the segregation eras. At times, black troop units/divisions/etc. were referred to as Negro; other times as Colored or Coloured. Sometimes the same group would be referred to as both Colored and Negro in different places. Would the Civil War (and later wars) buffs create cross references between the racial terms? Or do most researchers already know to look for variations? Anne Anne Taylor University of Missouri-St. Louis ataylor@umsl.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Subject: asking for feedback Some one had recently posted that she requests feedback from her clients (Sonsie?). I'm wondering how you do this-- informally? formally? Do you ask for a list of corrections in your contract? Ilana ***************************************** * Kingsley Indexing Services * * 125 Olive Branch Church Road * * Roxboro, NC 27573 * * inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu * * http://www.prairienet.org/~inewby * * (910) 597-5380 * ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 12:37:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: asking for feedback At 03:11 PM 6/10/1998 -0400, Ilana Kingsley wrote: >Some one had recently posted that she requests feedback from her clients >(Sonsie?). I'm wondering how you do this-- informally? formally? Do you >ask for a list of corrections in your contract? I don't usually issue a contract, and I rarely get one from indexing clients. But I do always write a follow-up letter (email or regular mail) when I agree to take on a job over the phone. As far as feedback goes, I used to send a preprinted, prestamped postcard with the completed index, asking for feedback and also asking what should be done with the page proofs I worked from. This latter question really was the "hook" on which to hang the postcard; I wanted something fairly straightforward and innocuous to get attention, which would lead into the feedback question. I got a pretty good responsse; probably 75% of people who received the postcard actually sent it back. Now that most of my indexing is sent electronically, I have to make a point to ask for feedback, and I rarely get any. These days, no news is good news! If there were something very wrong, I would hear immediately; NOT hearing anything seems to indicate at least an adequate product was presented. One situation that is more fruitful is repeat indexes for new editions of works I've indexed before. In the old days, publishers would keep a corrections file if they knew they would be working on another edition, and index corrections got tossed in there, too. I don't know if they still do this routinely, but the best feedback I get (in terms of actually hearing useful information) is from these repeat jobs. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:48:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan D. Hernandez" Subject: Indexing genus and species Hello Everyone, I am indexing a book dealing with microbiology and I am wondering what is the recommended way to index genera and species when the species are described in detail enough to warrant separate subheadings. For example, can I use the genus name followed by spp. as the main heading and the species name without the genus name as a sub? (italics left out) Haloferax spp. mediterranei, 7 volcanii, 8 or should it be: Haloferax spp. H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 Thanks for any help! Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:41:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In my opinion, there is no need for the spp. in the heading or the repeated initial letter in the subheads, in botanical entries. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:24:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: WinHelp Question Anyone know how to print out the index compiled from WinHelp OLH files? So far we can only see the entries in their little scroll box and as footnotes, which are not optimum ways of editing them. Thanks, Julie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:28:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Schwilk Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Hi Susan, Academic Press house style is as in your second example. I believe that is also the style in CBE. Mike ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Indexing genus and species Author: Indexer's Discussion Group at ~Internet_Mail Date: 6/10/98 2:48 PM Hello Everyone, I am indexing a book dealing with microbiology and I am wondering what is the recommended way to index genera and species when the species are described in detail enough to warrant separate subheadings. For example, can I use the genus name followed by spp. as the main heading and the species name without the genus name as a sub? (italics left out) Haloferax spp. mediterranei, 7 volcanii, 8 or should it be: Haloferax spp. H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 Thanks for any help! Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:37:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Susan: I would leave out the spp. in the main heading, which refers to the genus as an entity in itself. In addition, I do not believe it is ever correct, in scientific texts or reference works, to use a species name without at least the *initial* of the genus, followed by a period. So I would style your entry as: Haloferax H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 Julie Shawvan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:12:00 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: WinHelp Question Julie Knoeller wrote: > > Anyone know how to print out the index compiled from > WinHelp OLH files? For 32-bit help, the Help Compiler Workshop includes some limited reporting capabilities. Also, the various authoring tools include report features of varying sophistication. But straight out of a compiled WinHelp (.hlp) file, I know of no way to print the index (or the TOC, for that matter). --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:45:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: WinHelp Question In-Reply-To: <199806102125.RAA08317@camel16.mindspring.com> I fyou have access to the Windows Help Compiler Workshop, there is a report feature buried in it that will help you out. If you do not have the Windows Help Compiler Workshop, for some reason ROBO Help was including it in their demo edition of ROBO HTML. I don't know why - you don't use it with HTML help, but it was there when I downloaded things. So go ahead and visit Blue Sky -- www.blue-sky.com. If you need help getting to the report screen, send me an email and I will try to get you to the right dialog box. Jan Wright At 02:24 PM 6/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone know how to print out the index compiled from >WinHelp OLH files? So far we can only see the entries in >their little scroll box and as footnotes, which are not optimum >ways of editing them. > >Thanks, > >Julie > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:16:19 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: HTML index of HTML files David M. Brown wrote: >Given the mechanics >of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword >refer to multiple pages. >Any ideas? If this subject is inappropriate for INDEX-L, please send >them to me off-list. It depends what you mean by 'simple'. Here's one approach: BigTopic * * * * where each asterisk is a separate link to another page referring to BigTopic. A more complex approach would be to make 'BigTopic' a link to a new page which listed the titles (and/or other details) about the pages containing a reference to BigTopic. This would be like a hidden list of subentries that only appeared when you clicked the main entry. It sounds messy but it could be done fairly easily with frames. Jonathan. =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:16:23 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files In-Reply-To: <04145155606871@domain1.bigpond.com> David, I have been indexing a single web site, and wondering the same thing. Since it seems inevitable that one link requires one index entry, I think we have to make the best of it, and make the wording of the links as informative as possible. The link need not have exactly or only the page title as the wording - we can add other information (within the link or in unlinked parentheses after) that helps the user decide which of the links to follow first. Having no choice but to give one entry per link might actually improve the index because the user has more information before choosing which link to follow. Glenda. > If several HTML pages have the same index entry, your HTML "index" page > could use the page titles as links and the common keyword to group them, > like this: > > Whatever <---- not a link > Itsa > Lotta > Malarkey > > But that's not quite the same thing: You're really creating > second-level index entries out of the page titles. Given the mechanics > of HTML, though, I can't think of a simple way to make a single keyword > refer to multiple pages. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:16:32 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Locating a Web site In-Reply-To: <04121358327579@domain1.bigpond.com> The Australian Society of Indexers is currently looking at moving its Web site, and since others have been asking, I thought our experiences might be worth recording. At the moment the Web space is a fringe benefit from our private account with a small local ISP. The account includes an e-mail address and dial-up access. I don't pay the bills but I believe it costs about $30-$40 (Australian) per month. The amount of space is limited (not a problem at the moment) and the site doesn't support nice things like CGI scripting and Microsoft Web bots which could make the Web pages a little more attractive and easier to use. I looked at some free hosting services but they all had various problems. GeoCities gives you its own name - you can't specify what you want. Others had limited space. One with enough space didn't seem to supply a directory structure, and when I wrote to them I got no reply - a bad sign. I've had a bad experience with free Internet services lately, and I didn't want to commit us to one which was going to go belly-up before long. Then I looked at local paid Web hosting services and found one for $25 per month. This comes with all the goodies mentioned above, plus more besides, and several e-mail aliases which mean we can set up a permanent address like 'aussipres@webhost.com.au' and then redirect mail to whoever happens to be President at the time. From my perspective it looks like a good deal. It doesn't have dial-up access, but we all have that through personal accounts anyway. $25/month doesn't seem too much to pay for a potential audience of 100 million people. Things should be even cheaper in the US. But perhaps if you or your group doesn't want to bear the whole expense you could look at collaborating with another person/group/company and sharing the space with them on a sub-let basis? Jonathan. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:47:59 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: HTML index of HTML files Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: > > David, > > I have been indexing a single web site, and wondering the same thing. Since > it seems inevitable that one link requires one index entry, I think we have > to make the best of it, and make the wording of the links as informative as > possible. The link need not have exactly or only the page title as the > wording - we can add other information (within the link or in unlinked > parentheses after) that helps the user decide which of the links to follow > first. Having no choice but to give one entry per link might actually > improve the index because the user has more information before choosing > which link to follow. > > Glenda. --and-- > It depends what you mean by 'simple'. Here's one approach: > > BigTopic * * * * > > where each asterisk is a separate link to another page referring to > BigTopic. > > A more complex approach would be to make 'BigTopic' a link to a new page > which listed the titles (and/or other details) about the pages containing a > reference to BigTopic. This would be like a hidden list of subentries that > only appeared when you clicked the main entry. It sounds messy but it could > be done fairly easily with frames. > > Jonathan. My thanks to you both and to the others who have responded to my question. It seems like the "second-level entries" approach gives the user the most information before the click, whereas the "string of links" approach looks the most like a back-of-book index and takes less space. I hadn't thought of the latter method, and it's always good to have alternative solutions in your arsenal. --David ======================= David M. Brown Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ======================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:25:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Georgie B. Cooper" Subject: Re: No subject was specified. Got the earrings. Gold and amethyst--very pretty. Have a card too for all of us to sign. Georgie This is a funny joke! -----Original Message----- From: Nancy Alston To: Georgie B. Cooper Date: Wednesday, June 10, 1998 7:45 PM Subject: No subject was specified. >What do you get when you cross a member of the Mafia with a deconstructionist? > >An offer you can't understand. > >: > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:21:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Georgie B. Cooper" Subject: Re: No subject was specified. Every night Joe would go down to the liquor store, get a six pack, bring it home, and drink it while he watched TV. One night, as he finished his last beer, the doorbell rang. He stumbled to the door and found a six-foot cockroach standing there. The bug grabbed him by the collar and threw him across the room, then left. The next night, after he finished his 4th beer, the doorbell rang. He walked slowly to the door and found the same six-foot cockroach standing there. The big bug punched him in the stomach, then left. The next night, after he finished his 1st beer, the doorbell rang again. The same six-foot cockroach was standing there. This time, he was kneed in the groin and hit behind the ear as he doubled over in pain. Then the big bug left. The fourth night Joe didn't drink at all. The doorbell rang. The cockroach was standing there. The bug beat the snot out of Joe and left him in a heap on the living room floor. The following day, Joe went to see his doctor. He explained the events of the preceding four nights. "What can I do?" he pleaded. "Not much," the doctor replied. "There's just a nasty bug going around." >: > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:24:20 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kari J. Bero" Subject: name and address changes Since I can't possibly remember all the folks who have my business card (I'm hoping you know who you are), I want to make sure you get this info.... . my last name has changed to Kells . my business name has changed to Index West . my address and phone have changed to that in my signature below I am, however, still the same Kari. '-) -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari Kells, Index West (formerly Kari Bero) indexwest@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ P.O. Box 2748 Vashon Island, WA 98070 206-567-5696 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:25:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judith Gibbs Subject: What happened? On June 6, I sent a letter to the e-mail address at the top, and it never appeared in my Index-L. Does the system somehow weed out mail that I send so that I don't get my own mail? Or did my letter somehow fail to make it in? Judi Gibbs The Write Guru ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 02:26:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In-Reply-To: <199806102015.QAA09861@ulster.net> >Hello Everyone, > I am indexing a book dealing with microbiology and I am wondering what >is the recommended way to index genera and species when the species are >described in detail enough to warrant separate subheadings. For example, >can I use the genus name followed by spp. as the main heading and the >species name without the genus name as a sub? > > (italics left out) Haloferax spp. > mediterranei, 7 > volcanii, 8 > > or should it be: Haloferax spp. > H. mediterranei, 7 > H. volcanii, 8 > > Biological indexing is my main field. I standardly index as follows (italics left out again): Haloferax mediterranei, 7 volcanii, 8 There is no need for spp. and no need to add the generic initial when they are listed under the genus. If for some reason you needed to index by specific name, then you'd want to put the genus in parens after it: volcanii (Haloferax), 8. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:06:36 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Julie wrote: II would leave out the spp. in the main heading, which refers to the genus as >an entity in itself. In addition, I do not believe it is ever correct, in >scientific texts or reference works, to use a species name without at least >the *initial* of the genus, followed by a period. So I would style your >entry as: > > Haloferax > H. mediterranei, 7 > H. volcanii, 8 > Julie is right--it is not scientifically correct to leave out the initial of the genus. However, if you have other subentries, it can be confusing to have all the species grouped under the initial genus letter, while the general subentries are in alphabetical order: Haloferax designing with, 4 H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 planting, 34 watering, 41 After many years of indexing plant books, I came to agree with Barbara Cohen, that leaving out the genus in the subentries is the best way to go, for ease of use. The italics will help the user see which subentries are species names, and they will be in alphabetical order. An alternative I used in the Ortho Problem Solver was to put the species FIRST, with the genus initials, followed by the general headings. But although that worked once the user figured it out, it wasn't logical enough for me. Example: Haloferax H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 designing with, 4 planting, 34 watering, 41 Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 06:26:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@AOL.COM Subject: all the names or not all the names Following the discussion about whether to capture every name for a names index -- I just finished a textbook revision that included many new citations. The authors really re-worked that text! There were numerous 1997 citations and at least one for 1998, but also new citations of earlier works. The book arrived some chapters at a time -- and of course there was a whole references section that was essentially the bibliography -- and it didn't come to me with the first batches of chapters. Not all of the new citations were included in that, so I flagged the ones that were problems. I got to the penultimate chapter of this long book and got the word they were repaginating the entire thing... So it was a great time to submit my list of missing references. It didn't seem to me I got a complete list back... and as I was moving page refs around, I noticed that in fact not all of my queries Had been answered. Called the editor and was directed to remove from the index the ones for which I couldn't find first initials... one author was in Europe and the other wasn't responsible for this part of the book. At this point that meant cutting about 8-10 names out of over a thousand. While I feel certain this has got to be an exception I was amused this was the way to cope with a problem and get this book off to the compositor! If the discsussion about getting these names into an index had come before I began work on this one, I would have followed one of the methods described here in the last few weeks. This discussion has been Very helpful. Thanks all, Deborah ==================== Deborah Patton, Indexer Baltimore, MD dp1301@aol.com 410/243-4688 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:44:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sally Klingener Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In-Reply-To: <199806102013.QAA11044@eliot.oit.umass.edu> Susan, Use the second option. A species epithet by itself is a faux pas in taxonomy and systematics. Even though the meaning is perfectly understandable in your first example, many readers would wince at seeing that usage. Sally At 02:48 PM 6/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Everyone, > I am indexing a book dealing with microbiology and I am wondering what >is the recommended way to index genera and species when the species are >described in detail enough to warrant separate subheadings. For example, >can I use the genus name followed by spp. as the main heading and the >species name without the genus name as a sub? > > (italics left out) Haloferax spp. > mediterranei, 7 > volcanii, 8 > > or should it be: Haloferax spp. > H. mediterranei, 7 > H. volcanii, 8 > > >Thanks for any help! > > Susan > > > >*************************************** >Susan Danzi Hernandez >BookEnd Indexing >susanhernandez@juno.com >bookend@sprynet.com > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alice G. Klingener email: skling@oitunix.oit.umass.edu Biology Department tele: (413) 545-0449 221 Morrill Science Center fax: (413) 545-3243 University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:08:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Locating a web site This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9518.74DA01C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jonathan wrote: I looked at some free hosting services but they all had various problems. GeoCities gives you its own name - you can't specify what you want. Others had limited space. One with enough space didn't seem to supply a directory structure, and when I wrote to them I got no reply - a bad sign. I've had a bad experience with free Internet services lately, and I didn't want to commit us to one which was going to go belly-up before long. ---- I have chosen Geocities for my personal/indexing site (under construction, or I'd give you the address!). If you have a registered domain name (or register a new one, a process which Geocities makes simple) you can register it with Geocities so when people type in "www.indexsite.com" or whatever your domain name is, they will reach your Geocities site directly. True, the person will be able to tell your page is with Geocities when they look at the location bar at the top of their window, but at least they can use your domain name to find you. For $5/month, I believe, you can have plenty of space as well as multiple directories. And I don't think Geocities is going to go "belly up" as Jonathan fears, as it appears to be going strong, though of course anything can happen. (If you own your domain name, you can always move it somewhere else if the worst happens.) As I believe another listmember pointed out, Geocities does have some restrictions about conducting business on their members websites, but my impression is that you can promote yourself as an indexer (or promote your ASI Chapter) as long as you're not actually selling a product on your site. I'm still verifying this, though... I'm only sharing my personal perspective. I was looking for a low-cost web presence, which I suspect is the goal of most small non-profit groups, freelancers, etc. Geocities offers a single, re-directable e-mail address, though I haven't figured out yet how to actually send mail and have my Geocities address show as the return address (since I'm replying from my other e-mail account, to which the Geocities mail is forwarded). Anyway, it would be worth a visit to their website at www.geocities.com for an assessment. Anne -------------------------------------------- Anne B. Day Editorial Production Manager ph: (215) 731-2227 Professional Jeweler magazine fax: (215) 545-9629 Bond Communications aday@professionaljeweler.com ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9518.74DA01C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jonathan wrote:

I looked at some free hosting = services but they all had various problems.
GeoCities gives you its own name - = you can't specify what you want. Others
had limited space. One with enough = space didn't seem to supply a directory
structure, and when I wrote to them I = got no reply - a bad sign. I've had a
bad experience with free Internet = services lately, and I didn't want to
commit us to one which was going to = go belly-up before long.

----
I have chosen Geocities for my = personal/indexing site (under construction, or I'd give you the = address!).  If you have a registered domain name (or register a = new one, a process which Geocities makes simple) you can register it = with Geocities so when people type in "www.indexsite.com" or = whatever your domain name is, they will reach your Geocities site = directly.  True, the person will be able to tell your page is with = Geocities when they look at the location bar at the top of their = window, but at least they can use your domain name to find you. =


For $5/month, I believe, you can have plenty of = space as well as multiple directories. And I don't think Geocities is = going to go "belly up" as Jonathan fears, as it appears to be = going strong, though of course anything can happen. (If you own your = domain name, you can always move it somewhere else if the worst = happens.)


As I believe another listmember pointed out, = Geocities does have some restrictions about conducting business on = their members websites, but my impression is that you can promote = yourself as an indexer (or promote your ASI Chapter) as long as you're = not actually selling a product on your site.  I'm still verifying = this, though...


I'm only sharing my personal perspective. I was = looking for a low-cost web presence, which I suspect is the goal of = most small non-profit groups, freelancers, etc. Geocities offers a = single, re-directable e-mail address, though I haven't figured out yet = how to actually send mail and have my Geocities address show as the = return address (since I'm replying from my other e-mail account, to = which the Geocities mail is forwarded).


Anyway, it would be worth a visit to their = website at www.geocities.com for an assessment.

Anne

--------------------------------------------
Anne B. Day
Editorial Production = Manager          ph: (215) = 731-2227
Professional Jeweler = magazine        fax: (215) = 545-9629
Bond Communications
aday@professionaljeweler.com

------ =_NextPart_001_01BD9518.74DA01C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:44:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Fwd: Indexing genus and species This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_897572645_boundary Content-ID: <0_897572645@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_897572645_boundary Content-ID: <0_897572645@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: BECohen653@aol.com Return-path: To: elinorl@mcn.org Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:40:18 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Per Elinor's comments, I don't use the initial letter signifying the genus, but I do run the subheadings that are species names before any modifiers denoting activities. Also, you have unconventional (not strictly alphabetical) sort problems with varietals and cultivars, which are handled differently by different publishers... for example the "x" is not a letter x but denotes a cross between two species.... therefore, although I key it in as an x, I code it for the typesetter to set as a multiplication sign (which in some typefaces is different)... also so the x is ignored for sort order. Indexing plant names can be a challenge! I recently did some bug books, and they are much easier--more names but fewer sorting problems in the subheads! Aside: this would be a good topic for a short article in the ASI Gardening/ Environmental Studies SIG newsletter. Contact Hannah Huse is you don't know about the SIG and want to join--it's a good forum for asking related questions and identifying other ASI members who work on such books. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN --part0_897572645_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:07:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Web presence A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: 1) Has your website brought you any business? 2) What do you post on your website? 3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? Thanks! Nell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:10:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Julie writes: >>I would leave out the spp. in the main heading, which refers to the genus as an entity in itself. In addition, I do not believe it is ever correct, in scientific texts or reference works, to use a species name without at least the *initial* of the genus, followed by a period. So I would style your entry as: Haloferax H. mediterranei, 7 H. volcanii, 8 << This isn't completely true. Yes, leave out the "spp." after the genus name, but no, you do not need the first initial of the genus when the species names are indented under the genus name. So, you would have: Haloferax mediterranei, 7 volcanii, 8 I consulted three botany and plant virus text books I have from college, and all of their indexes agree on this point. CBE doesn't address this particular issue specifically, however, it states that all subentries refer back to the entry at the next higher level prior to it, which would preclude the use of the first initial of the genus name. Chicago also doesn't seem to address it. HTH. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:26:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Web presence In-Reply-To: <199806111409.KAA25747@mail1.bellsouth.net> *Absolutely*, it's brought me new business! Because my credits list is getting lengthy, I've posted it on my site (the address of which appears below), and at least two editors (new clients, that is) have told me they perused the list and called me at least partly on the basis of the similarity of my previous projects to what *they* wanted me to do -- which is exactly what I had in mind. The rest of the site is largely an HTML version of my brochures(s), which are a lot easier to update than the printed variety, and there's no restriction on length as there is in a trifold. I should emphasize that the site has been very useful IN CONJUNCTION with a traditional "I'm here and I want your business" type of postal PR campaign... but considering that it's cost me nothing but a little time (the site itself is free), I'd say it's a pretty good deal! Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Nell Benton > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:08 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Web presence > > > A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: > > 1) Has your website brought you any business? > 2) What do you post on your website? > 3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? > > Thanks! > Nell > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:13:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith A. Jablonski" Subject: Looking for WP 6.1 for Windows This is not related to indexing, but I am running out of options and am hoping someone on the list can help me. I am looking for a copy of Word Perfect 6.1 for Windows -- to be used on an older computer. If anyone has upgraded and is looking to offload/sell the earlier version -- or if you have an idea of where I might find a copy -- would you email me offlist? I've already contacted Corel, who no longer sell the 6.1 version. And I've checked out the computer stores of several local unversities, who tell me they no longer carry it, nor can they order it. Many thanks, Judith _______________________________ Judith A. Jablonski Lecturer/PhD Student School of Library and Information Studies University of Wisconsin - Madison Helen C. White Hall 600 North Park Street Madison, WI 53706 608/263-2900 email: jajablon@macc.wisc.edu -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:28:58 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Kells Subject: Re: Web presence In-Reply-To: <199806111409.KAA03380@camel16.mindspring.com> Great questions, Nell. Here's my experience: 1. Last year I generated $7,000 of business from folks who learned of me and my services strictly via my web site (via search engines). 2. I put a _ton_ of info about my business, my process, and indexing in general. I want folks to visit my site, even if they don't contract with me (this is good web design practice that any book or class on web design ought to teach). 3. My URL is in my .sig below, and on that site you'll see I maintain a page of links to other indexers on the web. If anyone knows of indexers with web sites who aren't on my list, please let me know. Now, if you've heard me speak or read my articles about web sites you should recall that I certainly don't preach that web sites are necessary. INDEX-L sees this discussion now & then, so I won't re-hash the issues. However, keep in mind that thousands of indexers get plenty of business each year without web sites. Not to mention all those indexers who don't use e-mail, either. I just find it really fun to maintain web sites, and it's so easy & cheap that I find it's worth it to me. Hope this helps, Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari Kells, Index West (formerly Bero-West Indexing Services) indexwest@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ P.O. Box 2748 Vashon Island, WA 98070 206-567-5696 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- At 10:07 AM 6/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: > >1) Has your website brought you any business? >2) What do you post on your website? >3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? > >Thanks! >Nell > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:41:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: all the names or not all the names At 06:26 AM 6/11/1998 EDT, DP1301@AOL.COM wrote: >Called the editor and was directed to remove from the index the ones for which >I couldn't find first initials... one author was in Europe and the other >wasn't responsible for this part of the book. At this point that meant >cutting about 8-10 names out of over a thousand. While I feel certain this >has got to be an exception I was amused this was the way to cope with a >problem and get this book off to the compositor! If I had been the editor on this project, I probably would have decided the same way. At some point, you just have to punt if it looks like the project is going to be massively late otherwise. IMO it's better to lose a few author references than to have a poor subject index, which is really the "meat" of the book. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:01:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Web presence >A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: > >1) Has your website brought you any business? I know I've had contacts based on my web site, but I haven't tracked income which resulted. Since much of my work is computer-related, I found it of value as evidence of my computer background. In addition I agree with Kari, one reason I do it is for the fun of it. >2) What do you post on your website? My actual site is an annotated list of web sites (on almost any topic), including an index to the information. While I wanted to include an online version of my indexing brochure, my ISP considered that a component of a commercial site (requiring a much higher monthly fee than my personal site). I am permitted to provide a resume and I've included a link from that to a PDF file for my list of completed projects. >3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com http://www.chesco.com/~nanguent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:05:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: Locating a web site >I'm only sharing my personal perspective. I was looking for a low-cost >web presence, which I suspect is the goal of most small non-profit >groups, freelancers, etc. Geocities offers a single, re-directable >e-mail address, though I haven't figured out yet how to actually send >mail and have my Geocities address show as the return address (since I'm >replying from my other e-mail account, to which the Geocities mail is >forwarded). > >Anyway, it would be worth a visit to their website at www.geocities.com >for an assessment. Another perspective (some of you have heard this from me before, so unless you're in the mood for another of Auntie Rica's patented rants, feel free to hit Delete now): Be careful about these free Web sites and free e-mail services. They may project an image you'd rather not reinforce in your prospective clients' minds. A "free" Web site of the Geocities variety does usually come with a price tag of sorts--for those who want to access it. If it's like similar services, part of what allows Geocities to offer it for free is the advertising revenues generated by those little ad screens. I'm not talking about standard ad banners and whatnot on the Web page itself; those are no harder to ignore than the ads in paper-based magazines and newspapers. These screens actually pop up when the surfer gets to your site, and must at a minimum be dealt with by clicking the "close" button *before* said surfer can read what she or he came for. Often these screens are done in garish, even discordant colour schemes (which detracts from the impact of the elegantly designed site that's the surfer's true goal). Some of them contain Java animations that can slow or even stall the screen's loading time. Until I upgraded to Netscape 4.0 recently, they regularly caused my whole system to seize up. Personally, I find this process annoying, even when it doesn't crash my machine. I came here to see *your* Web page, and I resent the intrusion. Consider that at least some of the throngs of visitors you hope to draw to your site may feel similarly. If it were my Web page, I wouldn't want my prospective clients annoyed before they even get to my material. At best, they'll "arrive" on my actual page in a less-than-genial frame of mind. At worst, they'll just go away. And I don't want ads for someone *else's* products and/or services distracting my potential clients from what *I* want to show and tell them. On a subtler level, while I understand the desire to keep costs down, particularly during a business's startup phase, I think it can be--and often is--carried to extremes that do a fledgling freelancer more harm than good. No offence to those who choose to (or feel they have no choice but to) take this route, but to me, setting up a business page on one of these free services fairly shouts "I am a beginner"--and may also create an even less savoury impression, which I'll get into a little later. By way of analogy, here in Canada, businesses don't *have* to collect the 7% federal Goods and Services Tax until they're grossing $30,000 a year or more. Yet when coaching wanna-be freelancers, I encourage them to register and start collecting right away. There are financial benefits to doing so that are irrelevant here, but an equally important rationale for this approach is that it keeps clients from immediately knowing that the freelancer isn't making $30K a year from this business. When a subcontractor proudly tells me "Oh, I don't charge GST," I'm neither impressed nor pleased: it doesn't save me any money (since as GST-registered business, I get to claim all the GST I pay out against the GST I collect, making it a net/net wash). And to me, it indicates either that the person is still thoroughly wet behind the ears *or* (and this is even more dangerous) that the person may be a "dabbler"--someone who doesn't really want to be a professional editor/indexer, but is "slumming" in my chosen career on his/her way to bigger and better things (usually involving writing novels and/or screenplays, but sometimes something else entirely). Alternatively, though admittedly more rarely nowadays, the person could be working for what used to be called "pin money": in other words, someone else's income (or a generous pension) could be supporting the household, so that editing/indexing becomes the equivalent of a hobby rather than a business. (Anne, please note that I'm definitely *not* placing you in the dabbler category--only indicating that nickel-and-diming your business *could* suggest to prospects that you *might* be, if they think the way I do.) Not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with dabbling, although sometimes it can feel a bit insulting to those of us who've chosen *this* as a career. (I'm reminded of the old New Yorker cartoon that shows a writer saying to some jerk at a party, "Yes, and when *I* retire from writing, I plan to 'try my hand' at brain surgery, Dr. Poohbah!") But in my experience, the dabbler's creed tends to be "spend as little money and time on the business as possible, since it isn't after all my main goal--I just want to use it to *make* money so that I can support my *real* dreams." And attitudes like this can lead to substandard work. You see, it's not just Internet costs they skimp on. (Actually, in the days before the Internet was so integral to business lives, I could often smell a potential dabbler by the fact that she or he considered *business cards* too costly.) Far too often, a person in this position can't be bothered to cough up the necessary cash or effort to o get proper training--and as we all know, an English degree isn't sufficient; o buy the tools of the trade that the rest of us consider necessary to do a decent job ("Dictionaries are sooooo expensive," they often whine--and if they have trouble parting with $25.00 for a reference book or CD-ROM, imagine their shock when they discover the costs of dedicated indexing software!); o keep up with developments in the field; or o "give back" to the field by volunteering in one of the professional associations, or by teaching professional-development courses at conferences (which, as a longtime instructor for the Editors' Association of Canada, I can assure you I do for love and *not* for money). Not being in it for the long haul may also affect how seriously such a person takes client relations: meeting deadlines and doing high-quality work may matter less to someone who feels no need to build a solid reputation in the industry. The moral: if you *are* dabbling, don't let on as much, at least to me. And if you're not, then do whatever you can to make clear that you're no fly-by-night who'll take my money and run. Call me old-fashioned, but I remain more likely to subcontract to a relative newcomer when I can see evidence of caring and commitment in that person's early efforts. If the wanna-be can't show me extensive experience--and of course few can--s/he'll have a better chance of getting my attention (and getting that first chance at a subcontract) with a resume that indicates, for example, having taken certain respected courses and seminars, as well as having made an investment in the tools of the trade (a trade in which a computer and Internet access are rapidly becoming virtually essential to being taken seriously, in the same way that answering machines and fax machines, not especially common when I started out, had only a few years later become practically a requirement of doing business) and perhaps having done some volunteer work. Since many clients won't hire raw beginners at all, volunteering (as one newbie I know has done by offering to index a cookbook put together by a nonprofit group as a fundraiser) and/or subcontracting to an established freelancer are often the only ways to gain experience, so it pays to figure out how to impress seasoned colleagues. You may have noticed that the word "invest(ment)" crops up a lot when I write (er, rant) about this subject. Startup costs in our business are incredibly low. As one of my seminar students (who was trained as a chef and is now herself a well-established freelance editor) once remarked to me, if you planned to open a restaurant, you'd be $300,000 in the hole for capital expenditures before you opened your doors! If you haven't got at *least* a couple of grand to invest in your startup costs, most experts would implore you to reconsider: you're putting yourself in serious danger of becoming a sad statistic by succumbing to undercapitalization, the fatal flaw that causes the vast majority of businesses to fail in their first five years. Try to resist thinking like a consumer, who sees everything as an expense, and think more like a businessperson (or even a homeowner), who sees certain outlays as *investments*. Until a wanna-be shows a willingness to invest in his or her business, I confess that I'm reluctant to invest my time and energy (not to mention my reputation, in the case of subcontracting or referring business) to help that person get a leg up. If you're truly serious about building a freelance business, borrow some bucks if you have to (I financed my first computer and the attendant software, including Macrex, with a low-interest credit-union loan that my mom co-signed). You don't need a lot: I'm not recommending four-colour brochures or a flashy office with a suite of furniture to match. But be prepared to spend what's necessary to show clients that you "mean business" when you ask for their business. Proper business Web sites in the Toronto area can be had for $25 a month, not much more than I pay for newspaper delivery. That $300 a year (plus the initial cost of setting up a genuine domain name) could well turn out to be an important investment in your professional image--and thus a crucial component of your professional success. MOO, of course. --Auntie Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ ==> Watch this space for information about e-mail versions of these popular courses! <== "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:05:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: FWD: Newspaper Indexing Hi All! This is forwarded from another list. Please respond directly to: kimmis@netvigator.com ======== Subj: Any suggested readings/info? Date: 98-06-11 10:41:52 EDT From: kimmis@netvigator.com (Kimmi) Sender: owner-newslib@listserv.oit.unc.edu Reply-to: newslib@listserv.oit.unc.edu To: NewsLib@listserv.oit.unc.edu CC: kimmis@netvigator.com Dear all, I am a student who is doing an assignment which entitled "historical review of newspaper indexing and the technological impact to newspaper indexing". I find the book "News Media Libraries" proved to be very useful. But for the latter part of my topic "the technological impact to newspaper indexing", I hardly find anything current information about the topic. Could anyone suggest any resources/reading lists which could me a hint where to locate information for doing the topic. I urgently need some help and suggestions. Cheers, Kimmi ==== Thank you, Dawn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:15:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Web presence In-Reply-To: <199806111409.KAA03380@camel16.mindspring.com> At 10:07 AM 6/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: > >1) Has your website brought you any business? I think it has. My site is used both on the "we are looking for an indexer and here's a web site" pre-contact side of getting business AND on the "we are interested in using you, what can you tell us about your business" post-contact side of getting business. It's incredibly convenient to tell someone who is on the phone to take a look at the web site and there's a list of my clients... I also get a nice listing of hits to the site, so I can tell how much usage it is getting - how many people have downloaded articles, how many people have looked at a specific page. >2) What do you post on your website? Information about indexing, a client list, PDF copies of articles I have written, and one light-hearted photo essay on the town of Index, Washington >3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? www.mindspring.com/~jancw ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:22:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Does anyone frequently create indexes in Quark? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD953B.F501D8F0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, I use QuarkXPress for layout all the time in my full-time job (magazine production), and I've recently been reading the section on indexes in the Quark 4.0 manual. I've been playing around with the indexing palette and the process of imbedding entries and building an index seems pretty straightforward. I know there has been some discussion on this list about manual vs. computerized indexing, so forgive me if I'm rehashing a recently addressed topic. Those of you who use Quark to index (assuming you exist), do you get a significant amount of indexing work in this form? That is, are there publishers out there sending Quark files to indexers to create imbedded entries? I ask because I believe Quark is used about as often as PageMaker (am I wrong?) in book layout, therefore it seems there would be a lot of Quark indexing to be done. But I haven't run across any (though I am new to the freelance realm and perhaps just haven't run into any Quark-indexing opportunities). Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks! Anne -------------------------------------------- Anne B. Day Editorial Production Manager ph: (215) 731-2227 Professional Jeweler magazine fax: (215) 545-9629 Bond Communications aday@professionaljeweler.com ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD953B.F501D8F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I use QuarkXPress for layout all the time in = my full-time job (magazine production), and I've recently been reading = the section on indexes in the Quark 4.0 manual. I've been playing = around with the indexing palette and the process of imbedding entries = and building an index seems pretty straightforward.


I know there has been some discussion on this = list about manual vs. computerized indexing, so forgive me if I'm = rehashing a recently addressed topic. Those of you who use Quark to = index (assuming you exist), do you get a significant amount of indexing = work in this form? That is, are there publishers out there sending = Quark files to indexers to create imbedded entries?


I ask because I believe Quark is used about as = often as PageMaker (am I wrong?) in book layout, therefore it seems = there would be a lot of Quark indexing to be done.  But I haven't = run across any (though I am new to the freelance realm and perhaps just = haven't run into any Quark-indexing opportunities).


Any insight would be appreciated. = Thanks!

Anne

--------------------------------------------
Anne B. Day
Editorial Production = Manager          ph: (215) = 731-2227
Professional Jeweler = magazine        fax: (215) = 545-9629
Bond Communications
aday@professionaljeweler.com

------ =_NextPart_001_01BD953B.F501D8F0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:27:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: Re: Looking for WP 6.1 for Windows I have to look up the address. However, there is a Web Site that offers old and out of date software. Send me a direct reply with our time line. ---"Judith A. Jablonski" wrote: > > This is not related to indexing, but I am running out of options and > am hoping someone on the list can help me. I am looking for a copy of Word > Perfect 6.1 for Windows -- to be used on an older computer. If anyone has > upgraded and is looking to offload/sell the earlier version -- or if you > have an idea of where I might find a copy -- would you email me offlist? > I've already contacted Corel, who no longer sell the 6.1 version. > And I've checked out the computer stores of several local unversities, who > tell me they no longer carry it, nor can they order it. > > Many thanks, > Judith > _______________________________ > Judith A. Jablonski > Lecturer/PhD Student > School of Library and Information Studies > University of Wisconsin - Madison > > Helen C. White Hall > 600 North Park Street > Madison, WI 53706 > 608/263-2900 > email: jajablon@macc.wisc.edu > > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, > for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. > > -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:25:36 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Web presence In-Reply-To: <199806111428.HAA21073@neti.saber.net> Michael, How did these new clients get to your website? Naomi >*Absolutely*, it's brought me new business! Because my credits list is >getting lengthy, I've posted it on my site (the address of which appears >below), and at least two editors (new clients, that is) have told me they >perused the list and called me at least partly on the basis of the >similarity of my previous projects to what *they* wanted me to do -- which >is exactly what I had in mind. The rest of the site is largely an HTML >version of my brochures(s), which are a lot easier to update than the >printed variety, and there's no restriction on length as there is in a >trifold. > >I should emphasize that the site has been very useful IN CONJUNCTION with a >traditional "I'm here and I want your business" type of postal PR >campaign... but considering that it's cost me nothing but a little time (the >site itself is free), I'd say it's a pretty good deal! > > >Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > mksmith1@bellsouth.net >http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Indexer's Discussion Group >> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Nell Benton >> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:08 AM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Web presence >> >> >> A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: >> >> 1) Has your website brought you any business? >> 2) What do you post on your website? >> 3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? >> >> Thanks! >> Nell >> ******************************************************************************** J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troilus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:25:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Web presence In-Reply-To: <199806111742.NAA22422@mail1.bellsouth.net> Hi, Naomi-- The "traditional" PR campaign part was a brochure I designed, printed, and mailed out to a couple hundred publishers/editors back at the first of the year. I hadn't done that in a decade or so, but I recently retired (after 30 years as a librarian) and I wanted to pump up my business. The web site address is semi-featured on the front of the brochure and reference is also made to it inside. But to include even my more recent credit list with the brochure would have required several additional pages and a lot more postage. The brochure also includes my client list, but that's now out-of-date (happily) -- but I'm also updating that on the web site. It all seems to work pretty well... though I have had a couple of calls from editors who got all sort of "fluttery" when I suggested they check out the site. (I think some of them are still using manual typewriters.) Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > -----Original Message----- > From: Indexer's Discussion Group > [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of J. Naomi Linzer > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 4:26 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Web presence > > > Michael, > > How did these new clients get to your website? > > Naomi > > > >*Absolutely*, it's brought me new business! Because my credits list is > >getting lengthy, I've posted it on my site (the address of which appears > >below), and at least two editors (new clients, that is) have told me they > >perused the list and called me at least partly on the basis of the > >similarity of my previous projects to what *they* wanted me to > do -- which > >is exactly what I had in mind. The rest of the site is largely an HTML > >version of my brochures(s), which are a lot easier to update than the > >printed variety, and there's no restriction on length as there is in a > >trifold. > > > >I should emphasize that the site has been very useful IN > CONJUNCTION with a > >traditional "I'm here and I want your business" type of postal PR > >campaign... but considering that it's cost me nothing but a > little time (the > >site itself is free), I'd say it's a pretty good deal! > > > > > >Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > > mksmith1@bellsouth.net > >http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Indexer's Discussion Group > >> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Nell Benton > >> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 1998 9:08 AM > >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >> Subject: Web presence > >> > >> > >> A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: > >> > >> 1) Has your website brought you any business? > >> 2) What do you post on your website? > >> 3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? > >> > >> Thanks! > >> Nell > >> > > > ****************************************************************** > ************** > J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA > Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, > there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at > large." > William Shakespeare: "Troilus and Cressida" > ****************************************************************** > ************** > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:49:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judith Gibbs Subject: Who at Microsoft Press... I understand that Microsoft Press has a lot of indexing work. Since my business is incorporated, I think I could work directly for them. I would like to have a couple of names, though, before I approach them. Does anyone know who I might contact? I will NOT mention your name when I call. I have years of experience as a technical writer and experience as a reference librarian in special and academic libraries, so I think I have background that MS might like to see in an indexer they hire. Thank you, ALL. Judi Gibbs The Write Guru, Ltd. Seattle, WA ========================================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:43:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Opinion: THE INDEXER vs. The Budget (long) Dear ASI Board Members: ASI members are currently being asked to decide whether to continue subscribing to THE INDEXER or to raise ASI dues as if this is an "either-or" question. Members may not be aware of the fact that even if THE INDEXER is discarded as a member benefit, dues will need to be raised because ASI's expenses exceed income--and have for several years now. Getting rid of THE INDEXER as a member benefit is a short-term solution to a long-term problem. The real problem of the ASI budget is the proliferation of member services and the rising cost of fixed expenses without a raise in dues to cover essential services of the organization. ASI's expanded services in recent years include: an administrative office; seed money for chapter-level Professional Development Workshops; an increasing number of local chapters; special interest groups; publicity, membership, and new member materials; and so forth. Escalating costs for existing services (such as the Wilson Award committee, KEYWORDS, Board travel expenses, and postage) have also overloaded the budget. In the last few years, shortfalls in the budget have been offset by increased income from new members. With membership up from 500 just a few years ago to over 1,250 now, income has exceeded expectations for several years. This will not continue indefinitely, as membership is likely to level off somewhat, especially as delivery of services lags. When the number of new members levels off, income will stabilize, although expenses will continue to increase to cover the larger membership pool. What has been done so far to keep expenses in check? KEYWORDS has been curtailed to 32 pages (to hold down printing and postage costs), publicity opportunities remain unmet because ASI lacks funds to print brochures, the ASI publications program was farmed out to keep in-house expenses to a minimum, the national office is staffed part-time and responds to queries more slowly than anyone would like because ASI lacks funds to hire additional workers, and the organization doesn't even use its own letterhead for official correspondence. [On this last point, perhaps I am one of the few members who noticed that the official ballot on the by-laws amendment came in a b/w envelope with the enclosed letter--not even signed by a Board member, I would like to point out--on plain green paper rather than on ASI stationery, which is cream with green lettering and includes the ASI logo. ASI is an oganization that cannot even afford to use its own stationery for official organization business!] Anyway, the Board has taken steps to hold down operating costs in the face of mounting expenses, and I understand the appeal of the "quick fix" that rescinding THE INDEXER represents. However, cutting the journal only solves our budgetary problem for the immediate future. It does nothing to address the real problem, which is that ASI dues are not sufficient to cover essential services as they have developed in recent years. Either ASI needs a major restructuring to live within the income generated from $65.00 dues, or members must be willing to pay for the cost of services most of us regard as necessary to the continued health of the organization. What the actual cost per member would be remains unclear, but to present the removal of THE INDEXER as an "either-or" solution to the dues problem does a disservice to the issues at hand. Even with the removal of THE INDEXER, $65.00 is probably not sufficient to solve more than one budgetary problem (for example, hiring more staff for the administrative office and equipping that office with stationery, ASI brochures, stamps, and so forth). But in the letter we received with the bylaws amendment, the Board has failed to spell out what current services will be saved by eliminating THE INDEXER from the budget, or what services will be cut should members vote to maintain THE INDEXER as a member benefit. What exactly are we voting to preserve by giving up THE INDEXER? (This doesn't even begin to address the list of new services ASI might like to provide. We are simply maintaining the status quo if we give up THE INDEXER or vote to increase dues to cover it.) I would also like to address the issue of the poll being taken from another perspective. Most ASI members are probably not aware that as much as 20-30% of each year's membership does not renew for the following year. Therefore, although we might maintain a membership level of 1,250, up to one-third of those members each year might be totally new to the organization and many are undoubtedly new to indexing as a profession. These new indexers may see little value in maintaining THE INDEXER as a member benefit when the issue is presented as "the journal versus higher dues." However, an informal poll of senior members of ASI (indexers with 10 or more years of experience and membership in ASI) reveals unanimous support for a dues increase over suspending THE INDEXER. Senior indexers do not question the importance of the journal or what it signifies about ASI as a serious professional organization with ties to our counterparts in Great Britain, Canada, and Australia. What senior indexers question is why the ASI Board would think receipt of the journal is an expendable service and what the Board's decision will mean for the development of the organization in the foreseeable future. In my opinion, the ASI Board needs to present a proposal that instructs members about what services will be cut if THE INDEXER is maintained without a dues increase or, conversely, what services can be preserved with a dues increase to cover THE INDEXER, as well as what new services we might expect if dues are increased to cover our actual expenses and projected budgets for the next, say, 5 years. A realistic projection of income and expenses would allow ASI members to make an informed decision about the value of THE INDEXER versus other member benefits. With the information you have currently provided members, I feel it highly unlikely that our budget problems will disappear even if we surrender THE INDEXER. Therefore, I ask the Board to reconsider the poll being taken and to present in the next issue of KEYWORDS the information we members need to make the best decision for the long-term development of the organization. Respectfully, Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN cc: Nancy Mulvany Index-L listserve members ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:54:23 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: checking list Hi everyone, I have not received any messages from INDEX-L for the last 3 days. I suppose the list is in hybernation. But any of you are receiving list messages, I would like to hear from you. May be I need to resubscribe to the list. Thank you. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 12:29:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: ASI's directory Just out of curiousity...has anyone ever gotten an indexing job from their listing in ASI's directory? Thanks! Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 00:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: STC conference in Raleigh The Carolina chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC) is holding its annual summer conference in Raleigh, NC on Saturday, July 18. If you are in the neighborhood, it's a good chance to shmooze with a couple of hundred people from the technical writing community. The Web page is: http://stc.org/region2/ncc/www/summer/STC_1998_promo.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 19:01:55 -0700 Reply-To: Sharon Keever Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Keever Subject: Re: indexing military history In-Reply-To: <9806101639.AA09859@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> Is colored/coloured necessarily synomous with black? In census records from the 1800s, my family is sometimes listed as "free people of color" - but they were Native Americans. I'm not a military history buff, but it seems possible that some of the "colored" troops might not have been Negro. Sharon Keever skeever@beta.tricity.wsu.edu > > I've had to deal with documents about the segregation eras. At times, > black troop units/divisions/etc. were referred to as Negro; other times as > Colored or Coloured. Sometimes the same group would be referred to as both > Colored and Negro in different places. Would the Civil War (and later > wars) buffs create cross references between the racial terms? Or do most > researchers already know to look for variations? > > Anne > Anne Taylor > University of Missouri-St. Louis > ataylor@umsl.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Problem with list...? My apologies to jump in here with this, but I haven't seen anything from INDEX-L in about 48 hours; if anyone on the list gets this post, would they please let me know? I don't know whether it's Bingvmb or my own ISP.... Thanks! Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 15:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael L. Olason" Subject: ISPs Summary Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the discussion of ISPs. There seems to be three options: free or low-cost ISPs, sharing space with another company or group, and established, larger ISPs. Here is a summary of the comments that I have received personally and from those posted to the list. Free or low-cost ISPs offer some extremely good deals. However, you need to research these ISPs very carefully, they also have some restrictions that you may or may not want to live with. Some of these restrictions include: what you may use your web site for, limits on transfer volume, amount of space provided is usually under 10 mg, maintenance may be performed during peak hours, there may be software/hardware conflicts, some may use COOKIES (which some of your potential clients may not allow on their computer), some force you to have ads on your site, and some of these companies do not have a professional image. However, depending on the requirements for your particular web site, you can find some good deals. Sharing space with another company or group may be another really good option. Buying service from larger providers, like AOL or Netcom, costs more, but has some advantages. Some of these advantages would include: stability of company, more lines to handle traffic, more disk storage, more data transfer, more e-mail accounts, FTP access, Common Gateway Interface (for online forms), log files to track traffic on your site, and technical support. One mistake that I made in calling these larger providers was that when I was asking for information regarding web site hosting, I failed to tell them that I did NOT need internet access (I already have this). The costs they initially quoted me included the costs of internet access AND web site hosting. Once I figured this out, the costs were about cut in half. For example, Netcom quoted me $45.00 per month for internet access and web site hosting; the quote was changed to $25.00 per month for web site hosting only. The biggest recommendation seems to be to figure out the requirements (purpose of your site, disk storage needed, what your budget can afford, etc.) for your particular situation, then carefully research your options and inquire about ALL packages offered. Susan Olason Indexes & Knowledge Maps oleduke@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:34:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Communication within ASI Hello All (even those on Index-L who are not ASI members), ASI members have probably recently received from its Board a ballot to approve or not formal recognition of Special Interest Groups (SIGs) and a survey about continued receipt of *The Indexer* from the UK as a benefit. Since non-ASI members on Index-L are certainly potential ASI members, I've chosen to include them in receiving this note of concern so that they will have a better idea of how ASI conducts its business. ASI Seattle conference goers learned that, even with multiple reminders via Index-L, only about 10% of all members responded with input for the Bd's Long Range Planning work. Deeming that rate insufficient, the Bd extended the LRP deadline urged members again to respond. The Bd wants input to proceed. Bd decisions are a given, with or without member input. While the majority of members elects Bd members to make organizational and administrative decisions, a minority of members will always want input. Will someone on the Bd explain its operating guidelines as to when, how, and under what circumstances it means to solicit member input and then make use of it? Proceeding with recognition of SIGs also begs these questions: How many votes will be sufficient to pass or reject the proposed amendment? If the SIG amendment passes, how can SIG officers/members influence the "rules and regulations" the Bd may apply to SIGs? (I apologize in advance for my use of quotemarks, which may be inaccurate; I returned my ballot two days ago and do not remember exactly how it was worded.) Will members (just SIG members or the whole membership?) always receive special ballots to guide formulation of those regulations? Thanks much, Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 14:56:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Who at Microsoft Press... At 12:49 PM 6/11/1998 -0700, Judith Gibbs wrote: >I understand that Microsoft Press has a lot of indexing work. Since my >business is incorporated, I think I could work directly for them. I would >like to have a couple of names, though, before I approach them. Does anyone >know who I might contact? I will NOT mention your name when I call. I haven't got a name for you, but I wanted to clear up a possible misconception. You don't have to be incorporated to work for Microsoft or any other publisher or business--even if that business, itself, is a corporation. Good luck in getting the contact names you need... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:23:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In-Reply-To: <199806111250.IAA06588@ulster.net> >Susan, > Use the second option. A species epithet by itself is a faux pas in >taxonomy and systematics. Even though the meaning is perfectly >understandable in your first example, many readers would wince at seeing >that usage. > Hmmm - not in my experience, both as indexer, research scientist, and assistant to chief librarian at American Mus. of Natural History for many years. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:19:39 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: (no subject) Hi, Just thought I'd check if anything is wrong with the my subscription. I just subscribed a few days ago and haven't received any e-mail from INDEX-L today. After the activity I saw the first couple of days I'm wondering if something is amiss with my subscription, the server, or if it's just a quiet day. Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:13:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan D. Hernandez" Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species Thanks to everyone who helped with my question. I saw the "spp." included in a microbiology textbook and thought it was redundant. I'm glad the experts agree! The subs are still tricky, but I think I'll try no "H." and rely on the italics to set the species apart from more general subhead information. This example gave me a chuckle, though. Haloferax is a microorganism that thrives in extreme saline environments (such as the Dead Sea). It probably doesn't need to be watered! > > Haloferax > designing with, 4 > H. mediterranei, 7 > H. volcanii, 8 > planting, 34 > watering, 41 > Thanks again! Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:46:34 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In-Reply-To: <04113818580994@domain1.bigpond.com> This is my preference too. I have just looked at a few gardening books which list the species names as subheadings without the initial of the genus, and they look rather naked to me. But since there has been some disagreement I would go to a library and check the indexes of a number of similar books (or perhaps consult the editor). If there were subheadings under species names I would make each species a main heading, thus avoiding the issue. In fact, I would consider making them separate entries no matter what. Each species is a unique individual, as well as fitting neatly into a classification. I vaguely remember from my formal library studies that there is a rule that subheadings are best used for *aspects* of the main heading, rather than narrower terms or examples of the main heading. In an index on dogs we would list all breeds by name (dalmations under D; collies under C), so why do we feel the need to do differently just because the species start with the same name? Just some thoughts in progress... Glenda. >So I would style your entry as: > > Haloferax > H. mediterranei, 7 > H. volcanii, 8 > > Julie Shawvan > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:02:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Who at Microsoft Press... At 12:49 PM 6/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >I understand that Microsoft Press has a lot of indexing work. Couldn't prove it by me. I've worked for them and haven't seen anything from them in a coon's age. I heard they were doing most of their work in-house these days. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 12:46:32 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: asking for feedback In-Reply-To: <04113818580994@domain1.bigpond.com> I have recently started sending feedback requests when I send an index (I got the idea from Index-L a while ago) - just a simple A5 sheet of paper with a few questions regarding quality, timing, and cost, and asking for general feedback. I have found it really useful. Firstly, its nice to get positive feedback. Secondly, I have received some suggestions, including one or two which would improve the index. Other suggestions or comments I have disagreed with, but am glad to know that they are what the client would like. This means that in similar circumstances in future I might either ask the client what they prefer, or include a note with the index saying why I had made certain choices. I have been suprised by client's priorities. I (and I am sure most indexers) stew over choice of index entries, terminology, references etc. One thing clients desire seems to be consistency. I am sure this is partly because it is so easy to check. I don't think it is usually very important at all, but since I know that it matters to clients I can make a little extra effort to make my indexes consistent. Glenda. > Some one had recently posted that she requests feedback from her clients > (Sonsie?). I'm wondering how you do this-- informally? formally? Do you > ask for a list of corrections in your contract? > > Ilana > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:20:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: Commonplace books For those who are interested in commonplace books, the Internet Book Information Center maintains a collaborative commonplace book at http://sunsite.unc.edu/ibic/ (it's near the bottom of the page). Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder, Ursa Editorial Design UrsaDesign@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ursadesign ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:52:35 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Wise Lofstrom Subject: What do you get... > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_2980475555_275256_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What do you get when you cross an insomniac with a dyslexic agnostic? Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog. Robin Wise Lofstrom Word to the Wise Indexing --MS_Mac_OE_2980475555_275256_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable What do you get... What do you get when you cross an insomniac with a dyslexic agnostic?

Someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog.

Robin Wise Lofstrom
Word to the Wise Indexing

--MS_Mac_OE_2980475555_275256_MIME_Part-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:07:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Web presence On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:28:58 LCL Kari Kells writes: >3. My URL is in my .sig below, and on that site you'll see I maintain >a page of links to other indexers on the web. If anyone knows of >indexers with web sites who aren't on my list, please let me know. > I also have a web site http://home.earthlink.net/~warkentin4/ for my indexing business (Cornerstone Indexing) >At 10:07 AM 6/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >>A few curiosity questions for freelancers who have websites: >> >>1) Has your website brought you any business? >>2) What do you post on your website? >>3) Would you like to share addresses so we can look? >> >>Thanks! >>Nell >> > 1) My web site has not brought me any business yet. It's only been up since the beginning of the year. It turned out useful for a new client though who found me through "Indexer Services". I was able to refer him to my web site while I sent him the other information he requested by mail (which came back to me a month later with postage due, yikes!) I will still be doing an index for him. 2) I posted the basics on my web site: Resume, Specialties, Index Styles, Recent Indexes, and Rates/Availablity. I also have a link to the ASI page. 3) http://home.earthlink.net/~warkentin4/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:50:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth Tudor Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names Thanks soooo much for helping me with this. Since my hard drive crash, I've searching the Index-L archives but had no luck. I owe Kathy a big one. Beth In a message dated 6/10/98 12:49:15 PM, Kathy wrote: >Hi Beth, >Is this the book you want? >Kathy > >Barber Indexing >Underwood, MN 56586 >abarber@prtel.com > >>Hi, All - >> >>There also is the very useful (but expensive): >> >>"People's Names : a Cross-Cultural Reference Guide to the Proper Use of Over >>40,000 Personal and Familial Names in Over 100 Cultures" >> >>by Holly Ingraham (McFarland & Co., Pub., 1997) >> >>Got mine from Amazon.com. As I recall, it cost around $65... >> >>Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 18:59:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: where'd it go? Is anyone getting Index-L stuff? I haven't received anything for days. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:38:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Indexing genus and species In-Reply-To: <199806142224.SAA30360@ulster.net> >If there were subheadings under species names I would make each species a >main heading, thus avoiding the issue. In fact, I would consider making them >separate entries no matter what. Each species is a unique individual, as >well as fitting neatly into a classification. I vaguely remember from my >formal library studies that there is a rule that subheadings are best used >for *aspects* of the main heading, rather than narrower terms or examples of >the main heading. In an index on dogs we would list all breeds by name >(dalmations under D; collies under C), so why do we feel the need to do >differently just because the species start with the same name? > Then you'd have (missing italics) something like Rattus adustus Rattus losea Rattus nitidus Rattus norvegicus Rattus rattus all starting the same way. Better as Rattus adustus losea nitidus norvegicus rattus I find that a lot easier to read, plus it's the accepted form in scientific publishing. In a book *only* on rats, you might indeed do it the first way, but only if each species had numerous subheadings, or at least many of them did. With dogs, you're dealing with vernacular names. Yet in a book only partially about dogs, they might well be better indexed under Dogs collies corgis spaniels wolfhounds -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo