From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 1-JUL-1998 14:47:11.39 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805A" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:22 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805A" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:29:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: alphabetizing German diacriticals and characters Sam wrote: << Same is true of the Mc, Mac words--they used to interfile and if I recall correctly it was the custom to have Mc-words precede Ma---, but computers ended those practices. Have always thought it odd you couldn't get a computer to file special forms of a letter (e.g., a-umlaut) after the regular letter, but guess it was too much bother to worry about. >> I' d like to differ. It is true that the new Chicago has changed to filing Mc and Mac as spelled, and many of my publishers have gradually switched over. Not all, though! And Macrex (I assume Cindex too?) easily sorts either way. It is not true that computer sorting prevents this kind of subtlety. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:47:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: sorting question Lori wrote: << Just for the fun of it, I'd like to know how you would index the following (it's a Web site): @Bat (The Official Site of Major League Baseball) CINDEX sorts "@Bat" under B (ignoring the "@" symbol); however, I'm wondering whether or not it would make sense to sort it under A as well (as if were spelled out - at bat). BTW, I also have an entries for baseball statistics and sports statistics. >> I would sort it under A, using the logic that the symbol in this case mostly means At. If I was looking it up I would think of @ as the word "at." Can Cindex substitute "at" for the @ symbol in the sort while leaving its appearance? Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 01:35:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: sorting question In-Reply-To: <199805010448.VAA24644@smtp1.teleport.com> >I would sort it under A, using the logic that the symbol in this case mostly >means At. If I was looking it up I would think of @ as the word "at." Can >Cindex substitute "at" for the @ symbol in the sort while leaving its >appearance? Hi Do Mi and Index-Lers - Yep, Cindex can sort so that the @ symbol sorts to "at". Method A - place "at" inside curly brackets in front of the @ sign. It won't show in the full view and won't print, but will force the sort. Idea B - set up the sort so that symbols come first in the sort. That will put the entry at the front of the index with any other symbols. Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 06:48:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: sorting question Thanks to all who responded to my sorting question. My solution to it was the same as Fred's ... including entries for @Bat under A (as if it were spelled out as "at bat") and under B. (Fred -- Please feel free to use this example when you host your "Breaking the Rules!" roundtable in Seattle. :-) ) BTW, I probably should have mentioned that the index doesn't have any entries in the Symbols section ... so I think "@Bat" would look out of place as the one and only entry there. Happy indexing! .... Lori *********************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services, 7308-C East Independence Blvd., #316 Charlotte, NC 28227 / Phone: 704-531-0021 URL - http://idt.net/~lathro19 (note: that's a "nineteen" at the end) *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:49:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: sorting question At 12:47 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote: > >I would sort it under A, using the logic that the symbol in this case mostly >means At. If I was looking it up I would think of @ as the word "at." Can >Cindex substitute "at" for the @ symbol in the sort while leaving its >appearance? And I, from my computer background, would expect it under B. For instant, the %INCLUDE (percent include) macro, would not be under P. For those with less computer bias, I would still put it under B but with a cross ref from At Bat (See @Bat). Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:55:43 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Subject: Re: reduced payment offer resolved Leslie, I still think it very odd that the author is paying you when your contract is specifically with the press! Have you considered telling your contact at the press that you want the check for the ENTIRE amount to come from THEM (per your contract and invoice arrangements that THEY set up), and however they wish to handle it with the author is their problem, but you don't want to muddy things by having the payments split when they weren't invoiced that way? It is a valid point since your invoice is specifically to them at their mandate. What worries me about this is that it leaves you wide open for future dickering. PMP (pardon my passion...) Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: reduced payment offer and serious frustration In-Reply-To: <199805010410.XAA26865@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I believe that they contracted with the author to pay for >the index. This is not rare, but usually the publisher pays the indexer and >takes the indexer's fees out of the author's royalties. I was a bit shocked to >hear that this pub had just passed the invoice along to the author. After all, >I invoiced the press, not the author. I work for a few presses that find and indexer for the author and also negotiate the fee. But they always tell me that the payment will come directly from the author (so then I send a contract to the author). Sounds like it was a real screw-up that the editor didn't tell you the payment would be coming directly from the author. I wonder--if you pointed that ought to them (that you should have been told this, so you could protect yourself), might they be willing to put more pressure on the author or even take it out of his royalties? Whenever I work with a new press, I always ask who will be making payment. >If it were me, I'd >tell him (if he calls or writes again) that this is a matter between him and >the publisher and that your fee is not negotiable post-hoc, so to speak. And >I think I would also make your contact at the publisher aware that it's >their responsibility to solve this problem, not yours. Hear, hear! >Well, they press and the author have come to a resolution. The author is going >to pay me the $500 that he so kindly offered (hear the drip, drip, drip of >sarcasm there), and the press is going to pay me the remaining $250. I'm so glad to hear that it worked out. I would urge others to always ask where the payment is coming from, just in case the press neglects to tell you the author is paying. The editor *should* tell you, but she might forget. I myself use a contract with all authors and with new presses. Like Sonsie, I haven't had a big problem being stiffed, but the contract also serves the purpose of reminding your client of dates, approximate length of book, and other particulars of your agreement. I once agreed to index a 200-page book in a week, but when I received the page proofs, it was 400 pages. I was very glad that I had a contract with that one, because I was able to renegotiate the fee to include a rush charge. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:24:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: sorting question In-Reply-To: <199805010410.XAA26865@mixcom.mixcom.com> > @Bat (The Official Site of Major League Baseball) > >CINDEX sorts "@Bat" under B (ignoring the "@" symbol); however, I'm >wondering whether or not it would make sense to sort it under A as well (as >if were spelled out - at bat). BTW, I also have an entries for baseball >statistics and sports statistics. How about a third option: sorting symbols at the top of the index, before the "A"s? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:21:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: thank you/index samples In-Reply-To: <199805010410.XAA26865@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Is it >standard to send out a sample index with a resume/letter to a publisher? >(meaning an index that you put together as practice from an unindexed book) > A long time indexer told me that I should only send out an index which I >have been paid to do. I always encourage new indexers to do just that. I had never before heard of an editor complaining about it. It would be both honest and prudent, of course, to explain in your cover letter what that sample index is (i.e., unpublished sample). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:41:21 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Subject: HELP: Middle Eastern Names Hi all. I'm working on an index for a memoir of a Foreign Service type who spent much time in the middle east and Asia. I'm having trouble with a couple of points and though Index-lers could help. 1. Should I list alternate spellings of Muammar Qaddafi (head honcho of Libya)? What do you think are the most common alternative spellings? 2. Turkish names can be very confusing. Older names are alphabetized by first or single name. Other times, when the name has a "Khan" or honorific in it, the name will be like the following: Yahya Khan, Agha Muhammad. However, newer names seem to use Euro-American type convention: Inonu, Mustafa Ismet. I've been relying on Webster's Biographical and Larousse Biographical to distinguish between variant alphabetizations but later in the book there are many names which I can't find in any biographical resource (including the online biographical dictionary at http://www.s9.com/biography/). I've been using a rough rule of thumb to deal with these names not found in any resource: Newer names are listed using our type of alphabetization (last name first, first name last kind of thing) and using the other types of alphabetization only if the name is an old one or has a discernible (to me) honorific. Anyone out there have any hints??? 3. The author lists many names of schools he or members of his family attended., usually by a shortened form of name. Is there a reference listing schools from grade through college level around the world? Thanks in advance for all the help you can offer. Yours Truly, Beth Tudor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:02:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Teaching indexing to tech writers Hi all, I've been tasked with teaching indexing to the tech writers in our pubs group. Of course I would prefer the indexes be prepared by a dedicated indexer (namely me) for obvious reasons, but I don't have much of a choice in the matter. So, what I'm asking is if anyone out there has experience in this type of situation and what your recommendations, frustrations, insights, etc are. In my experience so far (about 12 years), about one in ten TWs has the aptitude and about one in every ten of those has the time and motivation. Thanks in advance for any feedback, Julie Knoeller Sr. Technical Editor Cisco Systems, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:15:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers At 10:02 AM 5/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I've been tasked with teaching indexing to the tech writers in our pubs >group. Of course I would prefer the indexes be prepared by a dedicated >indexer (namely me) for obvious reasons, but I don't have much of a choice >in the matter. So, what I'm asking is if anyone out there has experience in >this type of situation and what your recommendations, frustrations, >insights, etc are. I have a one-day workshop on indexing for tech writers. It took about 50 hours to develop the materials. I have presented it twice, and it has been very well received, but I am frankly skeptical that any benefits lasted beyond my departure. I have thought that a better plan would be to present the workshop when the writers are nearing the end of a project, then do follow up visits to ensure that they are following the guidelines I gave them. I haven't had any time to actually market that approach. If you are in-house with the writers, you might have a chance of doing it that way. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:11:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: sorting question Richard Evans wrote: > > At 12:47 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote: > > > >I would sort it under A, using the logic that the symbol in this case mostly > >means At. If I was looking it up I would think of @ as the word "at." Can > >Cindex substitute "at" for the @ symbol in the sort while leaving its > >appearance? > > And I, from my computer background, would expect it under B. For instant, > the %INCLUDE (percent include) macro, would not be under P. For those with > less computer bias, I would still put it under B but with a cross ref from > At Bat (See @Bat). Interesting! I (with my computer background) would look first under "At Bat" then under "@Bat" (which I would expect to find at the top of the index) and finally--and only as a last resort--under "Bat". I agree with Dick that "%INCLUDE" would only go under "INCLUDE", but @Bat is different (to me, anyway): it's a name of a place (a Web site), not a command, and I would expect to find it under its whole name. Sort of like indexing "Mr." under "Mister" (that was the best example I could think of off the top of my head:-). I guess this means @Bat should be indexed in all three places. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:19:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers In reference to teaching indexing to tech writers, Julie Knoeller wrote: "In my experience so far (about 12 years), about one in ten TWs has the aptitude and about one in every ten of those has the time and motivation. " I didn't realize I was part of such a small minority! By the way, I'm available to teach tech writing to any indexers who have the aptitude, time, and motivation (and enough cold hard cash, of course). Just kidding. John Sullivan T echnical Writer (and sometime indexer) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:28:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: reduced payment offer and serious frustration In-Reply-To: <199804302135.OAA20968@smtp4.teleport.com> You wrote >... > >Leslie (one mad and mean indexer!!!!) You go, girl! I'm glad it worked out in the end. This tale does not sound like something you could have prevented. Even with a written agreement, the problem would still have occurred. That's a classic SNAFU - systems normal (but) all fouled up (anyway). Thanks for sharing this. Martha really enjoying/supporting your outrage and your win! Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:33:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers Yeah, that's kind of what I thought I'd try to do. Their indexing tasks come fairly seldomly so I think a lot of individual guidance will be necessary. I think the best I can hope for is to give them enough awareness of theory and practice that they will have a clue when they NEED guidance and so they can kind of recognize when an index is weak. Indexing is one of those thing you have to practice practice practice in order to get good at, so I have big doubts as to the usefullness of what I'm doing. Any way, thanks for your comments; now I just have to keep my cynicism in check! At 01:15 PM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 10:02 AM 5/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I've been tasked with teaching indexing to the tech writers in our pubs >>group. Of course I would prefer the indexes be prepared by a dedicated >>indexer (namely me) for obvious reasons, but I don't have much of a choice >>in the matter. So, what I'm asking is if anyone out there has experience in >>this type of situation and what your recommendations, frustrations, >>insights, etc are. > >I have a one-day workshop on indexing for tech writers. It took about 50 >hours to develop the materials. I have presented it twice, and it has been >very well received, but I am frankly skeptical that any benefits lasted >beyond my departure. > >I have thought that a better plan would be to present the workshop when the >writers are nearing the end of a project, then do follow up visits to >ensure that they are following the guidelines I gave them. I haven't had >any time to actually market that approach. > >If you are in-house with the writers, you might have a chance of doing it >that way. > >Dick > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:37:00 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers I've taught a half-dozen in-house indexing courses for tech companies. A few tips: 1. As much as possible, give them a step-by-step procedure to follow. I've found that this group of people really really really want hard, practical rules--not theory, not "sometimes you'll have to use this term and sometimes that". 2. Definitely go through a few pages as an example, and listen to their questions and disagreements. Find answers and resolutions and incorporate these in your step-by-step guide. 3. For in-house consistency (and therefore customer and serviceperson comfort), develop a style guide and perhaps start building a thesaurus of terms, especially subheads (e.g., Are they to use gerunds or not? Both singular and plural allowed [I've found they want a ruling on this, although with enough examples, we usually end up agreeing that a hard ruling won't work--so their in-house thesaurus will identify allowed exceptions.]? How do they identify the primary discussion of a topic [the subhead "about"? bold page numbers?]? Will the indexes include page ranges or just starting pages? etc.). 4. As life goes on, make sure there is one person (preferably you, as you're the in-house dedicated indexer) as arbiter of terminology and stylistic decisions. That's all I can think of off the top. Good luck! Heather E. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:47:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers Dick, You mentioned a course you have prepared and I was wondering if you would be willing to let me look at the materials or sell me a copy? ______________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum - Sysop for: Style/Concepts/Etc E-mail: 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:58:45 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers Julie Knoler wrote: >>In my experience so far (about 12 years), about one in ten TWs has the aptitude and about one in every ten of those has the time and motivation.<< Whoa!! Maybe I'm taking offense where none's intended, but I'd like to know why one can't teach indexing to tech writers--I are one and am learning to index. :-) I've indexed manuals I've written, and I know others who have done so. It's another skill in the bag of skills people who write can have. I will agree that a tech writer is not likely to develop skills as highly as someone who does only indexing, but often having a full-time indexer, or even a part-time one, is not an option. Wouldn't it be better to train tech writers who are going to index anyway the proper way to do it? Many see indexing as an adjunct process to writing, just as many see tech writing as an adjunct process to turning out a product. Those views are both, IMHO, wrong. The customer sees the product as the hardware/software/service and the documentation and the documentation's index as the product. I'd start with motivating both management and the writers. Tech writers often see their role as making poorly designed products work for the user by supplying work-arounds to a difficult product or interface. Let them see that indexing is one more way to make their product much more useful. Appeal to their sense of helping the reader. That's what motivates the good tech writer. For management, let them see that this makes the product--and here I include all components of the product as the customer sees it--much more useful. A good index can help users find information that's really in the manual, but they can't find now. That reduces support calls and costs, can help lower training costs, and can increase customer satisfaction and thus repeat business. Make a business case for good indexing skills. A discussion of indexing Web sites and Web offerings graced INDEX-L a while back. Show the writers and managers how indexing is even more essential for online offerings than for paper ones. After all, it's impossible to hold the Web site, CD ROM, or online documentation or help file in one's hand and flip through it. Let them see how important knowing basic indexing skills is to their develoment at online information developers. Wheew!! Got to stop and take a breath. One of your best and brightest, Lori Lathrop, started life as a tech writer. She's my mentor, and has built on my knowledge of tech writing to help me learn indexing skills. Don't write people off because their skill set is different. These days, we all need to extend our skill sets to help our companies and ourselves compete. Look upon yourself as someone who can help those around you develop skills to make themselves more marketable. Who knows, when people see how important and difficult good indexing is, maybe they'll hire you to do the indexes or to help edit ones produced by the writers. ;-) ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:21:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers In-Reply-To: <199805011701.LAA13533@Rt66.com> This may be mostly wishful thinking, and more applicable to John's offer to teach us tech writing ; ) .... but I've often thought that if tech writers had more of an understanding of -- and some experience with -- the indexing process, it might carry over into their writing and organizational style. One of my pet peeves is the use of almost-but-not-quite synonymous terms as if they were interchangable (like "class" and "object"). When you index, it quickly becomes obvious that either the writer doesn't really understand the subject, or he/she is simply being sloppy. It seems likely that a writer indexing their own work would also pick that up, and clean up their act...by either fixing the sloppiness, or learning what the difference is and using the correct term. But maybe I'm just dreaming... At any rate, real instruction in indexing for tech writers can't help but be a good thing. One day recently I checked all the tech writing books at the bookstore to see what they had to say about indexing...I think the largest chunk was about 4 pages; for the most part we got less than a page. Not necessarily a representative sample, but it did make me think. And if you can convince them that it's better for everybody if they lobby management to use professional indexers, you'll have accomplished a lot! Caroline ____________________________ Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence Indexing and Editorial Services Tijeras, NM 505-286-2738 caroline@rt66.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:32:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers >>>In my experience so far (about 12 years), about one in >ten TWs has the aptitude and about one in every ten of those has the >time and motivation.<< > >Whoa!! Maybe I'm taking offense where none's intended, but I'd like to >know why one can't teach indexing to tech writers--I are one and am >learning to index. :-) I knew I'd get flamed for this one--it's not my intent to slam TWs' ability to learn it; I don't think the ratio is any different than in the general poplulation (well, maybe a bit better :), and I only have my own not-so-scientific sampling to go on (I wasn't equating aptitude with intelligence). The problem of resources is much bigger than aptitude. I work with some extremely bright and talented writers here (best I've ever seen) who function on extremely short schedules, which are totally product-release driven. I have pretty good management support for the value of indexing, but trying to squeeze a week or even two or three days in to devote to an index is very very difficult. I'm doing my best to push for just one extra day in the editing schedule to devote to editing indexes. BUT, when writers are working 12-14 hour days (or more) just to meet their own milestones it's pretty hard to find the time -- I don't know what the answer is, frankly, except to just keep emphasizing it. Right now, tags get inserted during the writing process and generated at the end with little or no editing, and you know what that looks like. I've only been here three months and am doing my darndest to give it more priority in the department. To me it seems like a waste of resources to try to teach a group to index then spend gobs of time monitoring the results and making them consistent. If you add up all the time that 15 writers and 2 editors will spend on it, just handing it to an indexer seems like a bargain and more likely to yield quality results. BUT, as I said, my task now is to teach them and motivate them, so I will do it to the best of my ability. You've made some excellent points, and I really appreciate the input. Thanks, Julie Knoeller Sr. Technical Editor Cisco Systems, Inc ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:44:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers Please post to the list; I'm interested too. At 01:47 PM 5/1/98 -0400, William Meisheid wrote: >Dick, > >You mentioned a course you have prepared and I was wondering >if you would be willing to let me look at the materials or >sell me a copy? > >______________________________________________________ >William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" >Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com >Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 >WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum - Sysop for: Style/Concepts/Etc >E-mail: 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:48:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers At 12:21 PM 5/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >This may be mostly wishful thinking, and more applicable to John's offer to >teach us tech writing ; ) .... but I've often thought that if tech writers >had more of an understanding of -- and some experience with -- the indexing >process, it might carry over into their writing and organizational style. This is a really valuable point of view-- now that you mention it, I do remember being struck by how much indexing made me a better editor. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:48:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers You might find the following article helpful. Indexing Integrated Manual Sets at Northern Telcom Bull Am Soc Inf Sci 1997;Apr/May Full text is online at http://www.asis.org/Bulletin/Apr-97/6exner.htm Roberta Horowitz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:16:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Bible books--need advice I'm finishing up a textbook on the New Testament, and I'm hoping that someone out there is a religious studies specialist who can help me with format for books of the Bible (both New Testament and Hebrew Bible). I will be talking to the author (if he's available this weekend the book's due on Monday) so may get some answers from him. But his index to the previous edition is inconsistent, and some of my questions are about handling things in subheadings, so I'm hoping to get information from someone else too. In general I'm looking for formats that aren't just the name of the book I think it's clearer to the reader that this is a Bible book we're talking about, and in many cases the books are named after people who are also indexed as people. But if it's really more correct to refer to a book as, for instance, Philippians, then I'll do that. ---I'm pretty settled, for Hebrew Bible books, on Exodus, Book of (the author uses either this or the plain name ("Exodus") unless there's a format I don't know about. ---I'm using "Mark, Gospel of " for the gospels. ---New Testament letters: "Philemon, Letter to," "Philemon, Book of," or "Philemon"? ---New Testament numbered letters: ---The author's solution isn't workable in my index (he uses the name as a main head and "First" and "Second" as subheads; First Corinthians has about 40 page references and therefore needs to be its own heading with subs. ---"Corinthians, First," "Corinthians, First Book of," "First Corinthian s" (with a see reference from Corinthians), "1 Corinthians" (alphabetized as "one")? ---Could the smaller ones be combined (as the author sometimes does): "J ohn, letters of," "John, Letters of" ? --I'm using plain names in subheadings (apocalyptism, in Thessalonians). Once I decide how I'm indexing numbered books I'll know better how to handle them in subheadings. Would it be correct to use "in Second Corinthians" as a subhead? --The only problem with plain names in subheads is needing to distinguish a person from a book. Any ideas for that situation? Thank you in advance, anyone who knows about these things! The book's due on Monday, so helpful information would have to come soon! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:43:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Teaching indexing to tech writers At 01:47 PM 5/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >Dick, > >You mentioned a course you have prepared and I was wondering >if you would be willing to let me look at the materials or >sell me a copy? > The package consists of about 130 pages in Freelance Graphics. It's not much value as a standalone document. Time permitting, I plan to make excerpts to use at my roundtable at the conference next week. If you are going to the conference, see me there. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:08:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lindsay Gower Subject: Re: Bible books--need advice In-Reply-To: <199805011918.MAA06734@firewall.persistence.com> Dear Do Mi: As a reader of such books, I would not look under "First" or "Second" in an index, I would look under the essential name of the book -- Corinthians II, Ephesians, John III, James. Precisely *how* you do this -- roman numerals, spelled out word, would depend on the usage in the text. If the author has been inconsistent in the text, pick one style and stick with it. Readers of a textbook must be assumed to have some working knowledge of the Bible and should be able to understand that "Corinthians II" means "Corinthians, Second Book of." Even if you use "2Corinthians" put in in the "Cs". If the author states he is using a specific translation of the Bible, take a peek at it (library or bookstore) and see how *it* structures titles -- if it uses "Letter to Philemon" or "Book of Philemon." Then you can use that style consistently, even if the author does not. Or, *you* could pick a common translation and state that the index follows it : King James, Revised Standard, New International Version. One good thing about differentiating gospels from epistles -- there's only one writer you need to worry about, and he wrote one gospel but three epistles! So you can use: John I - or - John, first letter of John, Gospel of John II John III Hope this helps! -- Lindsay * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Lindsay Gower lindsay@persistence.com -or- lindsay_gower@hotmail.com Technical Writer Persistence Software, Inc. 1720 So. Amphlett Blvd #300 San Mateo CA (650) 372-3606 http://www.persistence.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:42:47 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Apprentice relations Could those of you who have experience with apprentices and/or assistant indexers email me off-list? I'd like to find out more about handling the financial arrangements, how payment is determined, contacts, how the assistant is classified for tax purposes, etc. I'd be glad to summarize responses for the list if there is interest. Thanks in advance, Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:48:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jenny S." Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names >3. The author lists many names of schools he or members of his family >attended., usually by a shortened form of name. Is there a reference listing >schools from grade through college level around the world? > Beth, Sorry I can't offer any help on parts one and two but a very simplistic answer for part of #3 is in the back of my Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary...a suplement listing colleges and universities in the US and Canada. Hopefully this will be a starting place for you. Jenny Stacpoole ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names At 12:41 PM 5/1/98 EDT, BethJT wrote: >Hi all. I'm working on an index for a memoir of a Foreign Service type who >spent much time in the middle east and Asia. I'm having trouble with a couple >of points and though Index-lers could help. > >1. Should I list alternate spellings of Muammar Qaddafi (head honcho of >Libya)? What do you think are the most common alternative spellings? Most biographical dictionaries have a cross-reference from Qaddafi to Gaddafi. Chambers Biographical Dictionary is a good one to own, since living people are listed there, as well as those no longer living. Merriam-Webster's Biographical Dictionary only lists people no longer living. Gaddafi, Muammar al- (seems to be the preferred transliteration into English) Qadhdhafi, Mu'ammar al- Qadhafi, Muammar al- I have also seen it as al-Khaddafi, Muhammed, etc. The al- should be ignored in sorting and can go in front of the name like al-Gaddafi, etc. and sorted under "G". > >2. Turkish names can be very confusing. Older names are alphabetized by >first or single name. Other times, when the name has a "Khan" or honorific in >it, the name will be like the following: Yahya Khan, Agha Muhammad. >However, newer names seem to use Euro-American type convention: Inonu, >Mustafa Ismet. Probably too late for your current project, but there IS this citation that I found in my names file: Maccaferri, James Tilio. Cataloging Ottoman Turkish Personal Names. Library Resources & Technical Services 34: 62-78, January 1990. Maybe someone with access to this article could summarize it for you. > >3. The author lists many names of schools he or members of his family >attended., usually by a shortened form of name. Is there a reference listing >schools from grade through college level around the world? I am assuming that he is discussing mostly American schools in foreign posts where American students lived and where there were/are embassies or consulates. There is an office in the State Department that handles these schools. Most of the older kids were sent away to boarding schools in Europe for high school. You might want to look at the State Department's Office of Overseas Schools web site at http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/schools/index.html to check names of current American schools. Boarding school names I can't help you with, but I know there are directories of these in some libraries. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:02:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: sorting question At 11:33 PM 4/30/98 EDT, Fred wrote: >Lori, > >To me the name of the Web site is clearly a play on the phrase "at bat," so I >would index it first as if spelled out that way. I'd probably also double post >it under B for those readers who realize that symbols are not used in sorting, >but that would be a second choice. I suspect most people would look for the >entry according to how they say it. > >Fred Fred: Hold on a minute! Looks to me like you've made too broad a generalization here. It's true, of course, that some symbols such as quotation marks and leading parentheses are not used in sorting, but a number of authorities including Wellisch and Mulvany say and have persuaded me that literal symbols should be sorted in a separate section, except in certain contexts such as in medical and chemical indexing in which they're ignored or sorted as spelled out. (Of course again, additional posts or cross-references may be appropriate.) Michael >At 06:48 AM 5/1/98 -0400, Lori Lathrop wrote: >. . . >BTW, I probably should have mentioned that the index doesn't have any >entries in the Symbols section ... so I think "@Bat" would look out of >place as the one and only entry there. Lori: Entries of terms with leading symbols in a Symbols or Special Characters section seem like the primary entries to me, so I'm inclined to think that we should just index what we've got, let 'em fall where they may, and include any appropriate additional posts. If that means having only one entry in the Symbols or Special Characters section, so be it: it's the same as having only one entry under any header letter, really. Michael At 01:11 PM 5/1/98 -0400, Ann Norcross wrote: >Richard Evans wrote: >> And I, from my computer background, would expect it under B. For instant, >> the %INCLUDE (percent include) macro, would not be under P. For those with >> less computer bias, I would still put it under B but with a cross ref from >> At Bat (See @Bat). > >Interesting! I (with my computer background) would look first under >"At Bat" then under "@Bat" (which I would expect to find at the top of >the index) and finally--and only as a last resort--under "Bat". . . . >@Bat is . . . a name of a place . . . and I would expect to find it under >its whole name. . . . > >Ann Ann and Dick: Interesting indeed! I too would look for it under its whole name: in the top section if I knew how to spell it, and under the A's if I didn't. I wouldn't look for "%INCLUDE" under "P", but I might well look for it under "%" since the "%" is part of its name. Posting it under "I" makes good sense though, like posting "^C" under "C". Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 17:03:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry.Baker@GALE.COM Subject: Colleges in Webster's As Jenny S. said, a list of colleges is in the back of the 9th edition of Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary. I found this to be a very handy tool for a quick "look up the location of the college" task. For some reason, though, they eliminated this section from the 10th edition. So ever since, I've had both editions on my bookshelf. One of these days I'll just photocopy that section and stick it in the back of the 10th edition. I wonder why the Merriam Webster folks chose to eliminate that handy section. Larry Baker Larry.Baker@gale.com "Jenny S." on 05/01/98 04:48:59 PM Please respond to "Indexer's Discussion Group" To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L cc: (bcc: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing) Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names >3. The author lists many names of schools he or members of his family >attended., usually by a shortened form of name. Is there a reference listing >schools from grade through college level around the world? > Beth, Sorry I can't offer any help on parts one and two but a very simplistic answer for part of #3 is in the back of my Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary...a suplement listing colleges and universities in the US and Canada. Hopefully this will be a starting place for you. Jenny Stacpoole ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:10:30 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: E: Mail origin cannot be determined. Comments: E: Original tag data was -> Charles Anderson Subject: Re: reduced payment offer resolved This kind of problem, and similar ones that I ran into many years ago when I still took an occasional job from an author, confirm me in my decision, also made many years ago, never, never to work directly with an author even with a contract. What used to frustrate me was the typical author's view that every word in the book was priceless and worthy of an entry - I suggested to the last author who tried that approach that he contract for a concordance rather than an index! Since dropping dealing with authors, I have never in 25 years of freelancing had a problem regarding billing on an index (except for fairly regular slow pays, which seems to be endemic in the publishing profession. There were jobs that I lost because of this resolve, but peace of mind is more important in my view. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:11:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Bible books--need advice At 03:16 PM 5/1/98 EDT, Do Mi wrote: >I'm finishing up a textbook on the New Testament, and I'm hoping that someone >out there is a religious studies specialist who can help me with format for >books of the Bible (both New Testament and Hebrew Bible). . . . > >In general I'm looking for formats that aren't just the name of the book I >think it's clearer to the reader that this is a Bible book we're talking >about, and in many cases the books are named after people who are also indexed >as people. . . . > >---I'm pretty settled, for Hebrew Bible books, on Exodus, Book of (the author >uses either this or the plain name ("Exodus") unless there's a format I don't >know about. >---I'm using "Mark, Gospel of " for the gospels. >---New Testament letters: "Philemon, Letter to," "Philemon, Book of," or >"Philemon"? "Philemon, Letter to" seems like the most accurate, consistent, and workable format. >---New Testament numbered letters: > ---The author's solution isn't workable in my index (he uses the name as a >main head and "First" and "Second" as subheads; First Corinthians has about 40 >page references and therefore needs to be its own heading with subs. > ---"Corinthians, First," "Corinthians, First Book of," "First Corinthians" >(with a see reference from Corinthians), "1 Corinthians" (alphabetized as >"one")? "Corinthians, First Letter to". > ---Could the smaller ones be combined (as the author sometimes does): "John, >letters of," "John, Letters of" ? "John: letters of" is fine, of course, but you'll probably need "John, First Letter of", etc., as main headings too. The Roman numeral style, "John III", for example, looks contrived to me, and could be a bit confusing because it reads like a chapter citation, e.g., "John 3:16". >--I'm using plain names in subheadings (apocalyptism, in Thessalonians). Once >I decide how I'm indexing numbered books I'll know better how to handle them >in subheadings. Would it be correct to use "in Second Corinthians" as a >subhead? Sounds good to me. >--The only problem with plain names in subheads is needing to distinguish a >person from a book. Any ideas for that situation? How 'bout uninverting all the titles much like "in Second Corinthians", e.g., "in the Book of Hosea"? -- or turning the modifiers into qualifiers: "in Hosea (Book of)? >Thank you in advance, anyone who knows about these things! The book's due on >Monday, so helpful information would have to come soon! > >Do Mi Stauber Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:49:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Bible books--need advice Do Mi, Lindsay Gower already addressed several of your points, and I agree with her, so I won't repeat those. Here's my take on a few others: > ---Could the smaller ones be combined (as the author sometimes does): "John, > letters of," "John, Letters of" ? I would only condense them if it is possible to list the individual letters (if discussed) as subheads, since readers familiar with the letters may want to refer specifically to one or the other. Not to open a whole can of worms on whether to put page refs at the main head, but this is a case where it might be appropriate. IOW, John, letters of, 3, 7, 46 John I, 14, 69 John II, 51, 90, 122, 134 I'd keep the Gospel of John separate (John, Gospel of.) > --I'm using plain names in subheadings (apocalyptism, in Thessalonians). Once > I decide how I'm indexing numbered books I'll know better how to handle them > in subheadings. Would it be correct to use "in Second Corinthians" as a > subhead? Yes, if your main head was "Corinthians, Second" or "Corinthians, Second Letter to." If you use Corinthians II or 2 Corinthians as a main head, I would use that in subheads. > --The only problem with plain names in subheads is needing to distinguish a > person from a book. Any ideas for that situation? How about using the person's name as a personal name; use "Book of ____" or "Gospel of _____" or "Letter of_____" for the books ("miracles, in Gospel of John.") Good luck! Hope this helps. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:49:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: Re: Bible books--need advice In-Reply-To: <199805012223.RAA04643@mail.minn.net> >At 03:16 PM 5/1/98 EDT, Do Mi wrote: >>I'm finishing up a textbook on the New Testament, and I'm hoping that someone >>out there is a religious studies specialist who can help me with format for >>books of the Bible (both New Testament and Hebrew Bible). . . . It's very common to have a separate index of Biblical passages. It's arranged in order of the books, chapters, and verses. It spares the indexer these questions and makes things easier for the reader. Would it work for your project? Best wishes, Carol Kennedy colfaxgp@minn.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:06:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: contracting with authors I work directly for authors much more these days since one of my clients switched to the system by which they arrange the indexer and the author pays for the index directly. I had had so much trouble with payment by authors that I decided to ask them to pay me half of the fee up front (when the page proofs arrive). I haven't yet had a complaint or problem with this system; it seems to have the effect of impressing on them their responsibility for getting me paid on time (usually by their department). I highly recommend it. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:15:56 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: change of address Please change my address to: jnlinzer@saber.net. ************************************************************************ Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 05:17:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonald Subject: Re: Volunteering In a message dated 98-04-30 20:10:50 EDT, Nell wrote: << What do you say about a downtime volunteer network? Nell >> I think it sounds fascinating. What do you have in mind? Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 07:49:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: M A Slepitza Subject: Re: Opinions and Advice I'm also interested in reading the responses. Can you share them with the list? Thanks. Cathy Slepitza sleepybb@msn.com -----Original Message----- From: M. Dermody To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 11:52 AM Subject: Opinions and Advice >Hello, > >I am writing to get opinions on the Indexing correspondence course >offered by the USDA. > I would like to find out how this course is viewed by indexers >working in the field. If so,what is your opinion of the course? Do you >recommend other sources of >indexing training instead? > >I welcome opinions on the USDA course as well as any advice in general >on how to obtain indexing training and experience. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:24:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Volunteering In a message dated 98-05-02 05:20:19 EDT, you write: << << What do you say about a downtime volunteer network? Nell >> I think it sounds fascinating. What do you have in mind? Bonnie Taylor >> We could compile a list of interested indexers and make it available to local Volunteer Centers and United Ways. Three helpful types of indexes come to mind: 1)Board minutes for the use of new board members and staff 2)Charity cookbooks (your idea - yum) 3)Publications produced by the charities Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 00:17:57 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: refocussing Web indexing Hi everyone After my challenging time last week on INDEX-L I have recovered. Now I am getting many enquiries about the WWWalker Web Indexing Course... In Seattle I will hope to meet many of you and talk about ways and means in this new medium. I sense we are moving on here - not trying to get new wine into old wine skins... So I will keep you up to date with WEBIX and courses and hope you can come along and meet me. Feel free to email me some day about your Web indexing aspirations - the letters I have received have been very encouraging! Thanks. Also there seems to much confusion about the use of Web indexing with so many dead links out there... This completely misses the point that there are many ways of Web indexing not just putting together a bunch of links. My course explains all of the finer points... Contact me if interested. www.wwwalker.com.au Dwight ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: sorting question In-Reply-To: <199805010157.VAA24211@ulster.net> Lori - I just did 2 indexes on pop market baseball books (NB - I'm not a fan and in fact dislike the sport, but like the work) Anyway, I'd enter it as a main entry under @Bat (alphed to "at"), with a see ref from @Bat (alphed under "Bat"), but also would have an entry for: Internet access (with @Bat as a sub if necessary). I wouldn't enter it under special characters, because for the most part the baseball audience won't think that way. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:39:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: resolved In-Reply-To: <199805011601.JAA27953@smtp2.teleport.com> >Leslie, >I still think it very odd that the author is paying you when your contract is >specifically with the press! I agree. Who submits the 1099 form to the IRS in this situation? The author (and does the author know how, when and whether to do this, will he coordinate with the press, and will he get it right? Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 10:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: Volunteering - hmmm In-Reply-To: <199805021329.GAA09810@smtp4.teleport.com> Verrry interesting... Count me in. Martha Back Words >We could compile a list of interested indexers and make it available to local >Volunteer Centers and United Ways. > >Three helpful types of indexes come to mind: >1)Board minutes for the use of new board members and staff >2)Charity cookbooks (your idea - yum) >3)Publications produced by the charities > >Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 11:06:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: ASI Golden Gate Chapter Meeting Golden Gate Chapter, American Society of Indexers Annual May Meeting: Saturday May 30, 1998 12:00 noon to 3:00 p.m. Featuring: Reports from Seattle AND Discussion of what YOU would like from the Chapter for the coming year (over lunch with a view of San Francisco Bay) Location: Fort Mason Center in San Francisco, Room C-205 (convenient access from East Bay, North Bay, and Peninsula, with plenty of free parking) For further information, contact Julie Shawvan: shawvan@well.com or (415)922-5996. To make a reservation, please mail your check with the form below. Reservations must be received by May 25. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reservation for ASI Golden Gate Chapter Meeting, May 30, 1998 Name__________________________________ Phone________________________ Address_____________________________________________________________ Check enclosed for ____$16 (ASI members) or ____$18 (nonmembers) Please make check payable to: ASI Golden Gate Chapter. Choice of sandwich: Turkey___Avocado & Cheese___Roast Beef___Ham___ (Served with chips and homemade dessert.) Choice of beverage: Mineral Water___Assorted Juices___Diet Cola___ (Coffee will also be served.) Mail check, to be received by May 25, to: Julie Shawvan GGASI May Meeting 1925 Pierce St. #4 San Francisco, CA 94115-2640 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:32:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: sorting question I just received a new style guide from one of my clients and they now want such entries double-posted under both the special character and the alphabetical acharacter. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:32:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Subject: Re: resolved In a message dated 98-05-02 14:09:17 EDT, you write: << I agree. Who submits the 1099 form to the IRS in this situation? The author (and does the author know how, when and whether to do this, will he coordinate with the press, and will he get it right? >> Interesting point, but in this case, he doesn't have to submit a 1099, right? It was for $500. The total has to be over $600 for a 1099 to be involved. (I think????) At this point, all I care about is getting my money and quickly. If I work for that press again, I will be certain to ask these questions up front. In fact, I will ask these questions of just about everyone! Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:31:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli Subject: Re: sorting question In a message dated 98-05-01 17:04:19 EDT, brackney@nccn.net writes: > At 11:33 PM 4/30/98 EDT, Fred wrote: > I'd probably also double post it under B for those readers who realize that symbols are not used in sorting. . . > >Fred > > Fred: > > Hold on a minute! Looks to me like you've made too broad a generalization > here. It's true, of course, that some symbols such as quotation marks and > leading parentheses are not used in sorting, but a number of authorities > including Wellisch and Mulvany say and have persuaded me that literal > symbols should be sorted in a separate section, except in certain contexts > such as in medical and chemical indexing in which they're ignored or sorted > as spelled out. (Of course again, additional posts or cross-references may > be appropriate.) > > Michael Mike, (et al.) You're right, of course, that symbols should be sorted in a separate section. However, I know that when I taught an indexing and abstracting course last summer, I had an overhead that noted that symbols were ignored in alphabetizing. I'll have to see if I can dig up the reference for that. I know I didn't make it up. Perhaps it was an example of rules no longer applicable taken from a discussion of how indexing rules have changed over time. And somehow that image just popped into my brain. Fred Leise ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 15:39:19 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512 Subject: Re: Volunteering - hmmm I like the idea, theoretically anyway. I prefer to be paid for what I do. After all, other employees of charities are paid salaries. BUT, if it was a needy charity or one I have a personal affection for, then I'd volunteer too. I noticed that local musicians, who "donate" their time often ask to be paid a market rate and agree to donate that sum back to the charity. I'm sure they have some tax reason for doing that. (or maybe it's just the union) Does anyone know if there is a benefit to refunding the payment rather than not collecting any fee?? Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:08:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: resolved Yes, they have to give you a 1099 at $600, but they are supposed to report it even if it's $1, my tax expert says Suellen On Sat, 2 May 1998 14:32:40 EDT LLF EdServ writes: >In a message dated 98-05-02 14:09:17 EDT, you write: > ><< > I agree. Who submits the 1099 form to the IRS in this situation? >The > author (and does the author know how, when and whether to do this, >will he > coordinate with the press, and will he get it right? > >> >Interesting point, but in this case, he doesn't have to submit a 1099, >right? >It was for $500. The total has to be over $600 for a 1099 to be >involved. (I >think????) At this point, all I care about is getting my money and >quickly. If >I work for that press again, I will be certain to ask these questions >up >front. In fact, I will ask these questions of just about everyone! > >Leslie >Frank Words Indexing and Editing > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:02:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: resolved At 04:08 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >Yes, they have to give you a 1099 at $600, but they are supposed to >report it even if it's $1, my tax expert says Suellen Since the 1099 is the reporting mechanism, how would one report a $1 payment without filing a 1099? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:50:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301 Subject: 36 characters No, this isn't a murder mystery question. Now that I'm working in Windows- based indexing software, I'm not sure how to get what the customer wants: an index of 36-character lines (and so many lines long). How do I adjust my margins to get lines with no more than 36 characters in each line? Working in DOS, that was a piece of cake -- I changed the right margin. Now I can choose among the following units for my margins/columns: inches, millimeters, points, or picas. I found something that says there are books that will tell us the number of picas per line for different fonts. Of course, it doesn't say where I can find such, but it gives me the sense that picas is what I should use. When I change to picas, the default margins change from 1 inch to 6 picas. For some reason, I think I should work in a fixed font for this (like Courier) and not in something variable, but it probably doesn't matter. I've got a week to get it right, and I am betting one of you will have that extra expertise that I need to answer this one. How do I do this? Thanks in advance, Deborah ==================== Deborah Patton, Indexer Baltimore, MD dp1301@aol.com 410/243-4688 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rollie Littlewood Subject: Re: CHAT: Sanskrit & Font Madness In-Reply-To: <199804202306.SAA72254@mail3.doit.wisc.edu> At 06:59 PM 4/20/98 -0400, you wrote to INDEX-L: ... >A local friend and I lavish goodies on one another including newly- >found Internet sites, software, books, and the like... Last week she had >a request for some German Fraktur-style fonts, which I do not have. >Of course I turned this simple request into A Project. With some diligent >searching I located an amazing trove of typographic material, both >fonts and software. Writing down and then rekeying the URLs for 30 >or so sources seemed like too much work, so I edited my bookmark file >and sent it on to her. Even though I use a PC and her sustem is Macintosh >there shouldn't be too much trouble loading an HTML file onto her >Netscape Navigator program. > >I have retained this file and would like to make it available to group >members. Please contact me directly if you are interested. The bookmarks >are primarily for font sources, but I retained a few other entries >for publishers, HTML information, and similar URLs. Since the file >is a TEXT file there should be no intersystem transmission difficulties. >The file as sent would be which should be renamed > for PC use and for Mac. [Actually I >am guessing at some of this, but it seems sensible. Ho ho.] ... I would appreciate receiving a copy of this file. Thanks. Rollie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:04:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Volunteering - hmmm Sharon wrote, << I noticed that local musicians, who "donate" their time often ask to be paid a market rate and agree to donate that sum back to the charity. I'm sure they have some tax reason for doing that. (or maybe it's just the union) Does anyone know if there is a benefit to refunding the payment rather than not collecting any fee?? >> If you are paid and give the money back there would be a tax benefit to you, because that way you could report on your tax forms. I spent many hours volunteering last year. Someone on the staff of the charity suggested I ask the IRS for a deduction. That did not work. I will contact Volunteer, The National Center and ask them for guidance. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 18:24:08 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Subject: Re: 36 characters Dear Deborah: Just work in courier 10 and set your margins to 1 inch left and 3.9 inches right. You might want to use the default margin settings for making entries, then change the margins for the formatted version to see where you need to snip to make them fit. Working in 36-character lines can be very distracting -- you're more worried about line length than about content. Leave the formatting until after you've made your entries. Sandy Sandra Topping Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:29:45 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne or Moose McNulty Subject: volunteering I also like the volunteering idea. Count me in too. It may not sound as appealing to the old timers but we newbies can always use some experience. I'd be happy to talk more about this personally if need be! Joanne mcnulty@montana.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:32:11 +0100 Reply-To: Karin Woodruff Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karin Woodruff Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names In-Reply-To: <894056834.1111755.0@listserv.cuny.edu> Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >al-Khaddafi, Muhammed, etc. > >The al- should be ignored in sorting and can go in front of the name like > >al-Gaddafi, etc. and sorted under "G". > Also, in *Indexing Books*, Nancy Mulvany says the particle al- can precede not only a family name but also a place of origin... So, my question is: how do I alphabetize these two Saudi Arabian villages:- Al al-Sulaym Al Salam TIA Karin -- Karin Woodruff, Leicester, UK. e-mail: woodruff@bison.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 17:13:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Volunteering - hmmm At 06:04 PM 5/2/1998 EDT, Nmbenton wrote: >If you are paid and give the money back there would be a tax benefit to you, >because that way you could report on your tax forms. I spent many hours >volunteering last year. Someone on the staff of the charity suggested I ask >the IRS for a deduction. That did not work. You can't deduct =services= donated to charity...only cash or item donations (such as clothing to Goodwill, or a painting to be auctioned off to raise cash). You can be paid for services (as in the musician example) then donate that cash to the charity and take a deduction for a cash donation. Another thing to be aware of if you do much charity work is that you can deduct mileage (it was 12 cents per mile in 1996; probably more now), and also the cost of certain unreimbursed expenses (such as a not-for-general-use uniform that a Candy Striper might wear). Also, you may deduct unreimbursed travel expenses and meals away from home if your donated services involve making a trip somewhere AND there is not a significant vacation element involved. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:20:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: 1099s from authors I get paid directly by authors a lot; pretty much the same as Do Mi's situation. The university press makes the author do all the work. Not one has ever sent me a 1099, of course, regardless of the size of payment. They have no idea, I would imagine...I just list the amounts as receipts in addition to my 1099s. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 20:25:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonald Subject: Re: Volunteering - hmmm I'd be willing to be involved in something like that. Bonnie Taylor << >We could compile a list of interested indexers and make it available to local >Volunteer Centers and United Ways. > >Three helpful types of indexes come to mind: >1)Board minutes for the use of new board members and staff >2)Charity cookbooks (your idea - yum) >3)Publications produced by the charities > >Nell >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:13:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith L Barber Subject: Apprenticeships This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am a beginning indexer. I have taken Basic Indexing and part of = Applied Indexing through the USDA Graduate School. I read on the ASI = web site that some beginners start by arranging apprenticeships with = experienced indexers. Does anyone know the best way to set up an = apprenticeship? Jennifer ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am a beginning indexer.  I = have taken=20 Basic Indexing and part of Applied Indexing through the USDA Graduate=20 School.  I read on the ASI web site that some beginners start by = arranging=20 apprenticeships with experienced indexers.  Does anyone know the = best way=20 to set up an apprenticeship?
 
Jennifer
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:14:44 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: resolved Thy're not supposed to report it, you have to pick it up on your tax return. Suellen On Sat, 2 May 1998 17:02:49 -0400 Richard Evans writes: >At 04:08 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Yes, they have to give you a 1099 at $600, but they are supposed to >>report it even if it's $1, my tax expert says Suellen > >Since the 1099 is the reporting mechanism, how would one report a $1 >payment without filing a 1099? > >Dick > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:50:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anntrue Subject: Workshop vacancies at Seattle To attendees of the Seattle Convention: I have registered for several workshops / roundtables at the ASI Convention. I now find I will not be able to attend. If anyone wants to attend one of more of these & couldn't get into that session, please contact me. I have checked with Margie Towery & she has OK'd my "selling " the spaces to another person. Workshops: Medical Indexing, Thur. am Bidding & Winning, Thur. aft. Threading an Index Outline, Sat. pm Roundtables: Database Indexing, Fri. Marketing, Sat. I also have a ticket to the Awards Banquet. I did not ask Margie about it specifically, but I assume that it could be transferred to another convention attendee, also. Am I *sorry* to be missing all this myself!!? Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 13:55:39 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Leonard Subject: Calculating indexable pages; line leading Two quick questions A quick question: When calculating indexable pages, aside from deducting for non-indexable tables and illustrations, is it necessary to deduct for any white space at the start and finish of each chapter (e.g. when the text ends just a quarter way down the page)? Thanks in advance. David Leonard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:50:30 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: cybrarians a growing portion of locum work in Australia Hi Just heard on the radio, Library Locums said 15% of their placements are now 'cybrarians' in Australia - librarians building internet sites. (http://www.libjobs.com.au/) I know a lot of you have librarian background but this could extend to indexers too I'm sure. If money is such a problem getting into internet based work, why not set a goal to save up and do the Web indexing course or buy a book on HTML or buy WEBIX for Java and teach yourself? More details to come. Where there is a will there is a way... Anyway I'm glad to have some real live wires doing the course and am very glad to see they are picking up Web indexing work soon after the course. It all takes a bit of will and carving out a niche in this new field. For my students and to a degree for you guys, I can work as a backstop to help along in the intial month or two via ICQ chat and email. And if you are still shy, I am considering having a 'get to know ICQ chat' and a virtual party one day to let people wet their feet in cyberspace with little cost. A free for all hour or two on evening US time (morning Australian time) could be arranged on ICQ chat... Anyone interested please email me: dwight@zip.com.au. Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 15:41:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Calculating indexable pages; line leading At 01:55 PM 5/3/1998 LCL, David Leonard wrote: >A quick question: When calculating indexable pages, aside from deducting >for non-indexable tables and illustrations, is it necessary to deduct for >any white space at the start and finish of each chapter (e.g. when the text >ends just a quarter way down the page)? I never do that...and I never deduct for tables and illustrations unless (a) they are full-page and (b) I have been told not to index them. If I have to do =anything= with them, they count as a page! In most of the books I do, the illustration captions, at the very least, contain indexable names or subjects. Tables generally are indexed under the appropriate subjects as well. Even if it is something like "Modified Accelerated Cost Recover System, tables, 3-10," and I don't read each and every page of tables between 3 and 10, they are indexable pages for the purpose of billing. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:35:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Calculating indexable pages; line leading To Whom Is Concerned: Re: Deductable pages My formula is simple: I don't deduct any pages or parts of pages. Too darn difficult. If I am going to deduct pages, it is because the graphics consume most of the page (or all of it) and more than 25 percent of the manuscript is art. Otherwise, no deductions. What does everyone else do? rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:10:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: cybrarians a growing portion of locum work in Australia Frankly, I consider the following message to be advertising. I am glad that this course is available, and it is true that Web indexing is vitally important. BUT I also believe that traditional advertising avenues should be followed in publicizing the course, since it is an individual who is providing the services and not an organization like ASI or SI or AusSI. My impression was that INDEX-L is not the medium for individuals' advertising. Cynthia Bertelsen At 07:50 AM 5/4/98 +1000, Dwight Walker wrote: >Hi > >Just heard on the radio, Library Locums said 15% of their placements are now >'cybrarians' in Australia - librarians building internet sites. >(http://www.libjobs.com.au/) I know a lot of you have librarian background >but this could extend to indexers too I'm sure. > >If money is such a problem getting into internet based work, why not set a >goal to save up and do the Web indexing course or buy a book on HTML or buy >WEBIX for Java and teach yourself? More details to come. > >Where there is a will there is a way... Anyway I'm glad to have some real >live wires doing the course and am very glad to see they are picking up Web >indexing work soon after the course. It all takes a bit of will and carving >out a niche in this new field. For my students and to a degree for you guys, >I can work as a backstop to help along in the intial month or two via ICQ >chat and email. > >And if you are still shy, I am considering having a 'get to know ICQ chat' >and a virtual party one day to let people wet their feet in cyberspace with >little cost. > >A free for all hour or two on evening US time (morning Australian time) >could be arranged on ICQ chat... > >Anyone interested please email me: dwight@zip.com.au. > >Dwight Walker >WWWalker Web Development >---------------------------------------------------------- >Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia >tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 >ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) >WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au >Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi >Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au >Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:19:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Manjit K. Sahai" Subject: Sample Indexes Hi everyone, I just want to ask everyone how many sample indexes they include with their resume/brochure. Mostly so far I have been sending only ONE sample index with my resume and business card. The sample index is always from those subjects in which the publisher specialises. But sometimes the publisher/press is so large that they publish books on LOTS of different subjects. Under those circumstances, is it wise to send 2 sample indexs pertaining to different subject matter. My questions are.... 1...If I send just one sample, does this mean that the publisher will give me indexing jobs only on those subject matter? 2...I have listed all the subjects on my brochure in which I will like to index . But looking at a real 'sample' is entirely different matter. How important it is to send 2 samples instead of one? I would appreciate all the help. Thanks in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Sahai-Co@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:31:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: alfred hankins Subject: USDA correspondence course This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! If you happen to know the URL address for the USDA's Indexing course, please post it for me. Thanks. Also, is there anyone in the NYC area who'd be willing to answer about 3,285 questions I have about getting started! Al ------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi! If you happen to know the URL = address for the USDA's Indexing course, please post it for me. = Thanks.
Also, is there anyone in the NYC area who'd be willing to = answer about 3,285 questions I have about getting started!
Al

------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 20:50:08 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: USDA correspondence course In-Reply-To: <199805040339.UAA27221@asis.com> Yes, the USDA's URL is http://grad.usda.gov/corres/corpro.html >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi! If you happen to know the URL address for the USDA's Indexing course, >please post it for me. Thanks. >Also, is there anyone in the NYC area who'd be willing to answer about >3,285 questions I have about getting started! >Al >------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600 >Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >

color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Hi! If you happen to know the URL = >address for the USDA's Indexing course, please post it for me. = >Thanks.
Also, is there anyone in the NYC area who'd be willing to = >answer about 3,285 questions I have about getting started!
Al

> >------=_NextPart_000_01BD76EB.90255600-- ************************************************************************ J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 00:20:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Help! Washington Treaty/German unification Is there anyone awake on the list who can enlighten me as to the relationship of the Washington Treaty to Germany's unification? Unfortunately, the exact nature of the Washington Treaty is not made clear in the book I'm working on, and my various reference sources haven't gone into enough detail to be of help. Is the Washington Treaty the only or the main unification treaty, or an additional/subsequent treaty? Is it the culmination of the "Two-Plus-Four" talks involving the US and USSR as well as the two German nations? Any information will be greatly appreciated. Please reply privately. I'm in a bit of a rush as this is on a tight deadline. TIA, Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:00:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: H Schinske Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 2 May 1998 to 3 May 1998 Does anyone know why the last two Index-L digests have turned up red (red background, black text, like trying to read a checkerboard)? Or am I the only one this is happening to? Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 01:04:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 2 May 1998 to 3 May 1998 Helen, I don't get the digest, but some of my Index-L postings turn red in the past 2 days or so. I have no idea why. Janet Perlman ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:40:32 +0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Re: 36 characters In-Reply-To: <98May2.183615-0400_edt.15378-5130+2824@email.unc.edu> However, if you have been given a maximum number of lines to work with, you may want to work in a 36-character format so that you can monitor the overall length of the index. If there aren't any limitations on length, then it's more convenient to work with the default margins earlier on. One of the presses that I work with really likes to have the index submitted in a draft font of 36 characters (not possible anymore in Cindex for Windows). Luckily for me, they will take a proportionately-spaced font with the margins worked out as Sandra described, but they'd really rather have a draft font. I'm not sure what I'll do if somebody is adamant about wanting a literal 36-character line. ________________________________________________________________________ Roberta Engleman Rare Book Collection Wilson Library CB# 3936 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (919) 962-1143 On Sat, 2 May 1998, SCTopping wrote: > Dear Deborah: > > Just work in courier 10 and set your margins to 1 inch left and 3.9 inches > right. You might want to use the default margin settings for making entries, > then change the margins for the formatted version to see where you need to > snip to make them fit. Working in 36-character lines can be very distracting > -- you're more worried about line length than about content. Leave the > formatting until after you've made your entries. > > Sandy > > Sandra Topping Indexing Service > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:03:34 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Carpal tunnel I'm still looking for carpal tunnel advice. Please reply privately if you like. I'm looking for alternative therapies that may have been successful. Has anyone had surgery and been able to return to keyboarding? Does anyone use speech-recognition software? Thanks for any advice you can supply. I can't type at all and am paying someone to do input for me. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:02:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: 36 characters In-Reply-To: <199805041843.OAA24851@camel26.mindspring.com> Actually, I found a way in Cindex for Windows to limit the number of characters per line... It is in Document> Record Structure. Look at the bottom part of the dialog box and you will see minimum and maximum characters there. You set them for each field. Jan Wright At 02:40 PM 5/4/98 +0600, you wrote: >However, if you have been given a maximum number of lines to work with, >you may want to work in a 36-character format so that you can monitor the >overall length of the index. If there aren't any limitations on length, >then it's more convenient to work with the default margins earlier on. > >One of the presses that I work with really likes to have the index >submitted in a draft font of 36 characters (not possible anymore in Cindex >for Windows). Luckily for me, they will take a proportionately-spaced >font with the margins worked out as Sandra described, but they'd really >rather have a draft font. I'm not sure what I'll do if somebody is >adamant about wanting a literal 36-character line. > >________________________________________________________________________ >Roberta Engleman >Rare Book Collection Wilson Library CB# 3936 University of North >Carolina at Chapel Hill (919) 962-1143 > >On Sat, 2 May 1998, SCTopping wrote: > >> Dear Deborah: >> >> Just work in courier 10 and set your margins to 1 inch left and 3.9 inches >> right. You might want to use the default margin settings for making entries, >> then change the margins for the formatted version to see where you need to >> snip to make them fit. Working in 36-character lines can be very distracting >> -- you're more worried about line length than about content. Leave the >> formatting until after you've made your entries. >> >> Sandy >> >> Sandra Topping Indexing Service >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:37:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Calculating indexable pages; line leading In-Reply-To: <199805032339.TAA25615@ulster.net> > My formula is simple: I don't deduct any pages or parts of pages. Too >darn >difficult. If I am going to deduct pages, it is because the graphics consume >most of the page (or all of it) and more than 25 percent of the manuscript is >art. Otherwise, no deductions. > And even if there's a lot of art, if there's captions to index, I count all of it. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:36:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennis Lastique Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 2 May 1998 to 3 May 1998 In-Reply-To: <199805040455.XAA09819@orion.tstar.net> At 01:00 AM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote: >Does anyone know why the last two Index-L digests have turned up red (red >background, black text, like trying to read a checkerboard)? Or am I the only >one this is happening to? > >Helen Schinske >HSchinske@aol.com > > I am a new aspiring indexer trying to learn as much as I can. What is this reference to "Index-L digest"? How does one access it? Also, would any of you care to share with me the brochures you use in marketing? I'm looking for ideas for a brochure of my own, and would like to see samples of those that have been successful. Thanks in advance. Dennis Lastique ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 14:06:50 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805010204.TAA10492@asis.com> I am in the midst of the USDA course and will attend the conference in Seattle, thanks to members' advice. I, however, do not even know the questions to ask the above vendors, nor can I develop criteria for choosing one or the other of the indexing software programs (or even another one). I am working on a Mac Performa 6360 with upgraded RAM to 32 MB. Would someone be able to give me some suggestions as to how they decided which program to buy? Also, I still use ClarisWorks for word processing. It came with the Mac. I think I must buy WordPerfect or Word. Again, what criteria would I use (besides what the client wants) for which to purchase? I would like to learn a new program BEFORE I start working, if possible. Or, would I need to just plan on learning both! TYIA Naomi ************************************************************************ J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:07:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CorofinInd Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex > Would someone be able to give me some suggestions as to how they decided > which program to buy? When I was making my choice, almost ten years and many versions of both programs ago, I tried the demos of both. Both programs had about the same capabilities (at least as far as I could tell) but I found Cindex much more intuitive and suited to the way I think. Other people have told me they feel the same way about Macrex. So it came down to "vibes" (my age is showing!). Cindex and I are still happily indexing together. Janet Russell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:41:32 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex Please respond on-list if possible as I am trying to make this same decis= ion with similar hardware. Thanks. =85Dan --=20 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Dan Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing and Editing Services http://WFWIndex.necaweb.com/=20 Woodstock, CT, USA -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:51:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex Janet: I was shown Cindex first and I loved it, but the clincher to buy it was simple: The woman told me it would pay itself back on the first job. And, it did. Simple enough. So much for researching everything to death. Sometimes you just know. rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 00:54:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AliaMM Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digests with colored background, etc. Helen wrote: >Does anyone know why the last two Index-L digests have turned up red (red >background, black text, like trying to read a checkerboard)? Or am I the only >one this is happening to? NO, you are not alone. Someone sent a message that came through as 'formatted' text and AOL interpreted the format. This will happen with any email program that reads formatted text. It has to do with the sender -- the messages usually show up with a coded form immediately following the regular text form. So, senders should turn off formatting on their end. (As far as I can tell, there's not way to tell AOL to read as plain text ... other than deleting the coding that is causing the problem. This can be difficult to do when you can't read it! :-) What I do to view these digests is do an Edit: Select All (I'm on a Mac so it's command-A). This highlights all the text in the message window -- and the highlighted text is usually readable. Depending on your platform and email program, you might have to save the message as a text document to view it. Good Luck, Alia *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Alia Michaels * Prescott, AZ * USA aliamm@aol.com Freelance Technical Writer and Editor *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:54:19 -0700 Reply-To: JEANMIDD@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JEANMIDD Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Considering Indexing I am retiring soon after a 28-year career as a technical writer/editor. Indexing seems like a logical postretirment career. I do not want to invest a great deal until I find out whether this is for me or not, but of couse a few hundred dollars is ok. These are my questions: (1) Should I take the USDA course or the one offered by Susan Holbert or another? (2) Can I invest in a $100-$130 software program until I decide whether the more expensive, more acceptable program, CINDEX, is advisable? I would appreciate any answers you might supply. Thanks, Jean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:15:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805042123.RAA13279@ulster.net> >I am in the midst of the USDA course and will attend the conference in >Seattle, thanks to members' advice. I, however, do not even know the >questions to ask the above vendors, nor can I develop criteria for choosing >one or the other of the indexing software programs (or even another one). > >I am working on a Mac Performa 6360 with upgraded RAM to 32 MB. > >Would someone be able to give me some suggestions as to how they decided >which program to buy? > As another Mac person, I think you don't really have a choice. In spite of its name, which always confused me, I don't think Macrex runs on the Mac. I'm very happyt with my recent purchase of Cindex. It was very easy to learn and the folks there are very helpful. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:17:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: 36 characters In-Reply-To: <199805041843.LAA24376@pacific.net> Roberta wrote: >One of the presses that I work with really likes to have the index >submitted in a draft font of 36 characters (not possible anymore in Cindex >for Windows). Luckily for me, they will take a proportionately-spaced >font with the margins worked out as Sandra described, but they'd really >rather have a draft font. I'm not sure what I'll do if somebody is >adamant about wanting a literal 36-character line. I generally massage my indexes (from Macrex) in a word-processing program before I give them to the publisher. This allows me to fine tune. Could you do that, providing the literal 36-character line that way? --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:33:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex << In spite of its name, which always confused me, I don't think Macrex runs on the Mac. >> Whoa--don't say stuff like this unless you know! Macrex will run on many Macs. (As a non-Mac person, I don't know the details!) For more information, contact the Macrex support office. I love Macrex because, in addition to the powerful shortcuts and formatting abilities it (to my knowledge) shares with Cindex, it works the way I think. I watch my index growing on the screen, switching between making entries, moving things around in the index and editing old entries, all from the same place. One of the features that allows this is tracking added entries (the alphabetized index "follows" the entry you just made, so you can use that entry to create further ones, and see how it relates to the part of the index you just added it to. I couldn't live without this feature. I also couldn't live without the very large number of keywords (expandable abbreviations) that Macrex allows--I often have 50 of these in an index, so that I don't have to type anything substantial more than once. Try both programs! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:59:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Carpel tunnel Hi, Bonny. I saw your posting on INDEX-L, which I get in digest form, and I wanted to say that I hope you will be as successful in avoiding surgery as I was. I was diagnosed with carpel tunnel syndrome about 10 or 11 years ago. At that time, I had never heard the term "carpel tunnel syndrome" and when the neurologist completed the NCV (nerve conduction velosity) test and said I had a clear case of carpel tunnel syndrome, I truly had no idea what she meant. In fact, when I heard the word "syndrome," I thought she was trying to tell me that the problem was in my *head*! ;-) At that time, I was a technical writer for IBM, and I was putting in a lot of overtime hours. Of course, many of those hours were spent whacking away at a keyboard. BTW, "ergonomic office equipment" was also something that was relatively unheard of at that time. Since then, of course, I have made sure that my keyboard is at the right level ... so I don't have to bend my wrists when I'm using a keyboard. Also, I no longer ignore occasional pangs of pain in my wrists or any numbness in my fingers. At the very first sign of either symptom, I immediately give myself a break. Actually, I give myself frequent breaks throughout the day whenever I'm doing a lot of keyboarding. During those breaks, I probably look pretty silly because I raise my arms above my head and "shake out" my hands. That seems to help as a preventative technique. Back to when I was first diagnosed with carpel tunnel ... an orthopedic doctor prescribed wrist splints, which I wore religiously, even though it wasn't easy to write or to use a keyboard while I was wearing them. Also, altho' I hate having to take drugs for anything, I did take the anti-inflammatory medication he prescribed for several weeks ... and I made sure NOT to take them on an empty stomach. Also, I became more aware of my sleeping positions; for example, I realized that I often slept with my wrists bent under my pillow, so I stopped doing that. I also started using pillows to prop up my arms & wrists while I slept ... and that made a huge difference. I still prop my arms up on pillows occasionally to avoid waking up with numb hands. About my office equipment ... I am much more particular about that these days, I have an ergonomically correct chair, adjusted to the right height, my keyboard is NOT on the desktop (it's a couple of inches lower than the desktop) ... so I don't have to bend my wrists as I type. I do think that I was lucky to have had the problem diagnosed soon after experiencing the symptoms of numb fingers and pain whenever I tried to pick up things and whenever I bent my wrists in certain ways. No doubt, I have lost some strength in my wrists, and that's probably irreversible ... but I don't have the other nasty symptoms very often. If/when I do, I know I've been spending waaaaay too much time keyboarding, and I need to give myself a break from that ... marking up page proofs or editing or whatever. Repetitive motion is the real cause of carpel tunnel syndrome. If you can avoid that, you can probably avoid the pain of carpel tunnel syndrome, too. Good luck ... and best wishes! .... Lori ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:13:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brave, Claudia" Subject: Re: Carpal tunnel Bonnie wrote: >I'm still looking for carpal tunnel advice. Please reply privately if >you like. I'm looking for alternative therapies that may have been >successful. Has anyone had surgery and been able to return to >keyboarding? Does anyone use speech-recognition software? >Thanks for any advice you can supply. I can't type at all and am paying >someone to do input for me. I never suffered from carpel tunnel, but did have severe tendonitis in my right wrist. There were several factors in my injury. At CNN as, at that time, the only selections Librarian, I had to get seven days worth of news videotape (around 1000 tapes) archived and indexed during a five day week - though there were more weeks than I would like to think about where I worked six ten hour days to get the job done. I also had an ergonomically incorrect desk and my chair was not adjustable. The first thing the doctor told me to do was to train myself to do some things left-handed - even simple things like opening a door, brushing my teeth, or turning pages in a book. I even trained myself to use the mouse with my left hand. Since I'm very right-handed it was difficult, but it made a major difference in the healing process. I also had a habit of resting my head on my bent hands when reading or watching television and lying down. I used a wrist brace, anti-inflammatory meds, and cortisone injections. When I reached my limit on the cortisone injections, I had surgery to remove a tiny bone in my wrist that was pressing on the nerve to my little finger and ring finger (the carpal nerve is attached to the thumb and other two fingers). It took a good six weeks to recover, but after that the only time I've had trouble is when it gets very cold and my muscles get stiff or if I've been working for more than eight hours and haven't had enough breaks to rest my hand. Keeping pressure off the wrists by keeping them straight is a big help. Now I'm so retrained in keeping my wrists straight, if I bend them when I'm asleep, I wake up. I now have an adjustable chair with a foot rest and an adjustable keyboard tray and a track pad instead of a mouse. It takes a while to learn to use the track pad, but it requires very little pressure to use it. I'm still using my left hand for all those mouse actions. It also helped that I now have someone else working with me on tape selections. Thank goodness, because we are now up to 1400 videotapes per week! It is possible to recouperate from these kinds of injuries. Just get the proper treatment, a good desk, a good chair, and know your limits! Claudia Brave CNN Library Claudia.Brave@turner.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: airline schedules Hi, I rarely fly & need help interpreting airline schedules. I sent this note to the airlines I'm using & haven't yet received a response. Can anyone help? I'm booked on a flight from Phila to Seattle leaving 5:45pm arriving 11:41 pm return flight a couple days later leaves Seattle at 1:41pm arriving at 12:24 am. My question -- it seems this is a mix of Eastern & pacific times. I'm assuming that departure times are local (5:45 Phila time & 1:41 is Seattle time). How should I consider the arrival times? Thanks, Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 09:07:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: airline schedules At 08:53 AM 5/5/98 -0400, you wrote: > >How should I consider the arrival times? > Departure/arrival times are always in local time. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:35:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex On 5/5/98 1:33 DStaub11 wrote: >Whoa--don't say stuff like this unless you know! Macrex will run on many >Macs. (As a non-Mac person, I don't know the details!) For more information, >contact the Macrex support office. To run a DOS program on a Mac you need to buy an additional program or additional hardware. A few years ago the program of choice was SoftPC. Now it seems to be RealPC which sells for around $50. The hardware (if it is still available) is considerably more expensive. After a couple of years of emulating DOS on my Mac I was very grateful to see a Mac-native version of Cindex. Back to the Cindex vs. Macrex topic I would be interested in followup to a recent thread. Does Macrex have complex boolean search capabilities? Cindex does. In the Mac version you can search for up to 4 constants in AND/OR combination with one another, each capable of being qualified with NOT. A simple example would be that I can search an index for every subentry at level 1 that includes the word "and" but does not include a comma. The search capability also has "pattern" searching which allows one to look for, e.g., every main entry that does not begin with a letter (a thru z, or A thru Z). Wild card searches are also available. As someone has already said today, you like best that which you know best. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:32:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805051338.GAA07288@powergrid.electriciti.com> I echo the advice to check out the demo programs of any and all dedicated index programs. The high-end programs all sound excellent. The choice should be for the program that best suits an individual's needs--and mileage certainly *does* vary. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex I use CINDEX, so I can't speak for Macrex. Both programs are supposed to be very powerful for stand-alone indexing. CINDEX has the advantage of having a Mac version, where I think Macrex is still only in DOS (Maxrexers correct me if I'm wrong!). Although I use the Windows version of CINDEX, I have seen the Mac version in a workshop, and it is very similar. I like my CINDEX for Windows very much. The other indexing program for Mac that I know of is Hyperindex?, which is based on the Mac Hypercard program. I don't know if any other list members could comment on it. It does have the advantage of being much cheaper than CINDEX, because the creator didn't have to program from scratch. As for word processing programs, my advice is get a current version of whatever you like. There are always conversion programs for the other programs' file formats, and you'll probably have to convert from Mac to Windows/DOS a lot of times anyway. Most of my clients use MSWord, usually still version 6, although one uses Wordperfect. Enjoy! Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:23:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Listowner info? A friend wants to subscribe to this list, but her subscribe messages keep bouncing. Is there a listowner address she can write to so she can get some help? Thanks! Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:17:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805050636.CAA23416@ulster.net> ><< In spite of its name, which always confused me, I don't think Macrex runs >on the Mac. >> > >Whoa--don't say stuff like this unless you know! Macrex will run on many Macs. >(As a non-Mac person, I don't know the details!) For more information, contact >the Macrex support office. OK, I apologize. I guess if you get one of those programs that make your Mac think it's a Windoze machine, it'll work. I'm too much of a Macophile to do that. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Koffler Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805051536.LAA19719@ulster.net> >The other indexing program for Mac that I know of is Hyperindex?, which >is based on the Mac Hypercard program. I don't know if any other list >members could comment on it. It does have the advantage of being much >cheaper than CINDEX, because the creator didn't have to program from >scratch. There's no demo for HyperIndex, but I was lucky in that someone was nice enough to let me try their copy. All I can say is that I immediately got Cindex. That hypercard stuff just doesn't do it for me, altho' I know some folks like it I just find it confusing and nonintuitive. -Barry oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo barkof@ulster.net Barry Koffler mid-Hudson Valley, NY the FeatherSite at http://www.feathersite.com/ lead me not into temptation . . . I can find it myself. oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:40:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In-Reply-To: <199805050416.XAA29723@mixcom.mixcom.com> I work on a Mac, too, and use Cindex (and love it). The Mac version of Cindex was created for the Mac, of course. Apparently, Macrex is now compatible with the Mac, but my impression (and this is only an impression) is that it wasn't created for the Mac, so the interface is likely to be more DOS-like than a Mac user might like. Since you're going to Seattle, where there will be demos of both products, why not try them both out? You might then have a much better idea what questions to ask, and you'll be able to see what the interface is like for each. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:45:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Calculating indexable pages; line leading In-Reply-To: <199805040400.XAA21246@mixcom.mixcom.com> My formula is simple, too. I count any page that has text the client wants indexed; I subtract all other pages. So I do count pages with tables and charts, because they require one index entry (at least). Ditto for full-page illustrations with captions. I don't deduct anything for an end-of-chapter page that comes partway down the page; I still have to read/analyze it. If I were doing a book that was mostly illustrations, I'd be more likely to knock something off my per-page rate than subtract pages. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:51:13 -0700 Reply-To: elgecko@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jeanne cope Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX As a new user of CINDEX for Windows I am just so happy to have made the change from the Wordstar 4 indexing facility which I have used for many years. After using the Windows version of Wordperfect 6, I found it irksome going back to a DOS based program. This galvanised me to change - and now I cannot understand why I didn't do so long ago ... CINDEX certainly makes life MUCH easier, and cuts down on the amount of editing that was becoming necessary as Wordstar fell further and further behind new developments in DOS. For all that, though, Wordstar has served me well for a long time (since about 1984). Your discussions are of great interest to a lurker from South Africa. It is most consoling to find that indexers everywhere are wrestling with the same, or very similar problems; your solutions and advice to all the various queries are very interesting and instructive. Your conference sound fascinating, and I'm green with envy. Must be a very stimulating occasion for you all. For those of you who find the costs heavy, count your blessings : it would cost us about $1500 just to get to New York from here, and then all the other charges would be multiplied by about five to convert to our currency! Anyway, enjoy. Regards Jeanne Cope ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:30:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Bryant Subject: Fexible Time? Greetings, I am about ready to take the dive into Indexing. I have been attending campus mini-workshops on web indexing and back-of-the-book indexing and reading all I can get my hands on about the freelance business. I taught English nine years and have my MLS degree . I am currently working as a high shool media specialist. I love my job and now am doing some troubleshooting with the computer lab at our school. I also commute two hours a day which keeps me away from home TEN hours a day. My problem: I have no flexibility. If I need to go to the doctor, I take a sick day. If I need to talk with my son's teachers, I have to take a personal day, an entire day and schedule it 5 days ahead. I have two sons and two days a year I can be off. I have the most wonderful job in the world, but it is in another city about 50 miles from home. I believe I would love Indexing and have indexed several books in my school library and then compared the indexes. (On my lunch break). It was really fun!! My questions: Do you have flexibility with your time schedules? Are you able to meet deadlines but still schedule around activites your family may be in? I find myself to be very tired from driving each day. Do you find working at home less tiring? Are you able to schedule three day weekends? (My husband travels on the weekends at times and I could go with him if I wasn't in a 5 day work week. I appreciate any comments about how you balance work and home and schedule your time to be with your family. I don't want to shut them out while I am indexing in another room. Thank you so much ahead of time. Charlotte Bryant Anderson, SC 29625 cbryant@carol.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:42:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Bryant Subject: Crowded Field? I also ordered my USDA government course today. I was told that about 5 calls a day were for this Basic Indexing course. Will there be so many people in this profession in a year from now that rates will go down? I know a well established Indexer will have no problems with work, but are there so many newbies out there that it will be- come impossible for us to find work? Charlotte Bryant Anderson, SC cbryant@carol.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:55:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Crowded Field? At 02:42 PM 5/5/1998 -0400, Charlotte Bryant wrote: >I also ordered my USDA government course today. >I was told that about 5 calls a day were for this >Basic Indexing course. Will there be so many >people in this profession in a year from now that >rates will go down? I know a well established >Indexer will have no problems with work, but are >there so many newbies out there that it will be- >come impossible for us to find work? I wouldn't be too concerned, Charlotte. Many of the people who take the course never finish it, or don't do well, or don't like the work. The course has been offered for some years now, and I don't think the field has been flooded yet. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:55:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Fexible Time? At 02:30 PM 5/5/1998 -0400, Charlotte Bryant wrote: >My questions: Do you have flexibility with your time schedules? Are >you able to meet deadlines but still schedule around activites your >family may be in? I find myself to be very tired from driving each day. >Do you find working at home less tiring? Are you able to schedule >three day weekends? (My husband travels on the weekends at times >and I could go with him if I wasn't in a 5 day work week. Yes, absolutely, flexibility is one of the great selling points of working independently--whether you are an indexer, a graphic designer, or whatever. The way it generally works for me is that I'm almost completely "unemployed" for several days--or a week or two--at a time. Then I'm on full Red Alert to get a project (or multiple projects) completed on deadlines. During Red Alert periods, I work weekends and evenings...whatever it takes to get the work done. During my periods of unemployment, I can go anywhere and do anything I feel like. I take my vacations in installments, so to speak. I find work at home less tiring, mainly because I am in charge of the scheduling, and because I do work I enjoy doing. It's true that the schedule is job-driven...if I have a deadline a week away, that date rules my life until the work is done. But I can choose not to overschedule myself, and I can even turn down a job if I desperately need to take time off. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:07:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653 Subject: Re: Fexible Time? Indexing being what it is (a detailed and mentally consuming exercise, most of the time), I wouldn't be too happy with constant interruptions, but working at home and being accessible to the family are certainly benefits of being a freelancer. I would start now to train your family to accept your inaccessibility when you are under what Sonsie called "Red Alert." During those times, it is very frustrating to be interrupted. You need to concentrate. But periodic breaks to maintain contact with the rest of the household are possible. You need to control them rather than lettting them control you, however. Ditto phone calls. In full-tilt on-tight-schedule mode, you need an answering machine to pick up calls so you can work without interruption--or I should say that many indexers feel this is true, myself among them. You may find you can work with interruptions--only time will tell. My 2 cents on this score. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:14:16 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Re: Crowded Field? Charlotte Bryant wrote: > > I also ordered my USDA government course today. > I was told that about 5 calls a day were for this > Basic Indexing course. I was wondering what the attrition rate was for this course. I mean, of the number who start, how many finish? How many then go onto an indexing career? Do you think the USDA has any idea? I sent them e-mail about three weeks ago (about what, I've forgotten) and did not get a reply. Dan -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing and Editing Services http://WFWIndex.necaweb.com/ Woodstock, CT, USA -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:57:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli Subject: Re: Considering Indexing In a message dated 98-05-05 01:02:17 EDT, JEANMIDD@prodigy.net writes: > I am retiring soon after a 28-year career as a technical writer/editor. > Indexing seems like a logical postretirment career. I do not want to > invest a great deal until I find out whether this is for me or not, but > of couse a few hundred dollars is ok. These are my questions: > (1) Should I take the USDA course or the one offered by Susan Holbert or > another? > (2) Can I invest in a $100-$130 software program until I decide whether > the more expensive, more acceptable program, CINDEX, is advisable? 1. It certainly is advisable to take some course of instruction in indexing, whether it is the USDA course, an extension course such as Nancy Mulvaney teaches at UC Berkeley or I teach for the U of Chicago Publishing Program, or even an indexing course at a local library school (although those tend to be more theoretical than practical sometimes). 2. It is possible to produce good indexes using Word or WordPerfect, or even a database program, where ever you expertise lies. I used WordPerfect for my first three indexes before finally deciding that indexing was something I wanted to do and was willing to spend some money on. So start slowly and take it in steps to make sure you and indexing are a "fit." Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:09:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JCox122202 Subject: usda indexing course I read about it in Money magazine last October and immediately signed up for it because it was something I always wanted to do. But I haven't done it because I'm too busy doing other things. If anyone wants to buy the book, manuals, and other information they send, I'll sell them for $50.00. You still have to sign up with them, the whole thing was about $250 or $270. I did read enough to sign up for this list and have enjoyed reading about your experiences. I should have done that first. Thanks, Jennifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:43:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Fexible Time? At 07:07 PM 5/5/1998 EDT, BECohen653 wrote: >Ditto phone calls. In full-tilt on-tight-schedule mode, you need an answering >machine to pick up calls so you can work without interruption--or I should say >that many indexers feel this is true, myself among them. You may find you can >work with interruptions--only time will tell. I will confess that I sometimes grow to hate the telephone (and the fax machine as well). When I'm in the middle of a job--particularly the marking phase, which requires intense concetration, IMO--stopping to answer the telephone makes me nuts. So I don't do it! As Barbara suggests, I let the machine screen my calls and only answer urgent or important ones. I don't even like hearing the phone ring, as I have only recently trained myself out of feeling as if I have to answer immediately whenever it goes off. That's a hard habit to break, but has contributed enormously to my sanity. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:41:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie & Steve Rizzo Subject: Re: Considering Indexing I have found Susan Holbert's wIndex program to be more than adequate for my needs. I recently checked out the demo version of Macrex and found that it was not as straight forward to get it up and running as wIndex. while I haven't tried Cindex yet, I understand that it has features similar to Macrex. Also, I took Susan's course by video and really got a lot out of it. Marie Rizzo JEANMIDD wrote: > I am retiring soon after a 28-year career as a technical writer/editor. > Indexing seems like a logical postretirment career. I do not want to > invest a great deal until I find out whether this is for me or not, but > of couse a few hundred dollars is ok. These are my questions: > (1) Should I take the USDA course or the one offered by Susan Holbert or > another? > (2) Can I invest in a $100-$130 software program until I decide whether > the more expensive, more acceptable program, CINDEX, is advisable? > > I would appreciate any answers you might supply. > > Thanks, > > Jean ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:18:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Carpal tunnel In-Reply-To: <199805051214.FAA21200@pacific.net> >>I'm still looking for carpal tunnel advice. Please reply privately if >>you like. I'm looking for alternative therapies that may have been >>successful. Has anyone had surgery and been able to return to >>keyboarding? Does anyone use speech-recognition software? I didn't have surgery and am doing very well. They told me it had a 50% chance of working. That wasn't good enough odds for me. The other responses about taking breaks and watching hand positions have described my regimens also. I'm dealling with radial nerve syndrome and lateral epicondylitis (tennis elbow) in both arms. Have been for 8 years. Got it when I worked as a typesetter, back in the stone-age mainframe days. I found that the rigid splints prescribed then had the effect of atrophying my arm muscles, which was not helpful to recovery. THe biggest thing for me was a total break from keyboarding (and everything else) for while, then gradually adding activities as I could. I started off not being able to lift a milk carton and now... well, I'm a lot better. My experience was that the osteopathic hand-specialist couldn't help me. What helped was a chiropractor who had taken specialty training in these problems. To this day I wear non-stretchy wristbands that align my wrist/armbones, and for heavy work, neoprene forearm bands for the tennis elbow (both prescribed and fitted properly). I also wear stretchy, thin, fingerless gloves that keep my hands and wrists warm while keyboarding. In addition to proper chair and keyboard height, I use the Microsoft Wave keyboard and love the relief from the rigid geometries of standard keyboards. However, the keyboard is less than 2 years old and is getting really hard to use... very stiff... so I'm thinking I need to try to find a keyboard that will last longer. (If anyone knows how to loosen up stiff keyboards I'd like to know.) I have real problems adjusting to standard keyboards now. Also essential is having the copy I'm working from in a direct line between me and the monitor. The neck is frequently part of the problem, and full body alignment needs to be attended to. I was very interested in voice recognition. At that time, Dragon software was more than $8,000, and I wasn't able to secure it as part of my rehabilitation package. The software available now is much better and WAY less expensive, of course. There is a woman on the list who uses it... perhaps she'll respond. If I had been able to get voice recognition, I'm pretty sure I'd have been able to work sooner than I was. I know that a total break was necessary before I could come back to the computer. In my case I became a full time indexer rather than the part time I'd been doing previously, but only AFTER a break and retraining myself/environment. I found I had to figure out how to conserve my arms in all the rest of my life in order to save up capacity for working. For example, opening jars and cans my old way was a prime capacity-waster. I got a gadget to assist in leverage on jars, and bought a (long-despised) electric can opener. Things like that. Examine every aspect of your life for unnecessary or preventable capacity-expenditures. For a while I couldn't bring groceries home by myself. In Australia the top Western medicine practitioners recognized, even 10 years ago, that the geometric grid of movement is implicated in repetitive stress problems, and that life-energy becomes cut off in the arms. An Aussie friend of mine was prescribed to do Tai Chi, the Chinese movement tradition. The diagonal, flowing energy/movements brings back energy to the whole body, enveloping the arms again. You may want to try it. Try not to hate your arms, but accept the carpal tunnel as a warning. Love yourself, accept your situation, and take a break. That's what I had to learn, anyway. hope this helps, Victoria > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:02:09 -0700 Reply-To: elgecko@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jeanne cope Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX Apologies folks, maths never was my strong point - the airline fare should be $17500 not 1500 Regards Jeanne ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:36:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Bombard, Lisa" Subject: Crowded Field? Charlotte, Taking the indexing course was a requirement for my job because it includes some minor indexing, but I am not planning to be a freelance indexer. I'm an editor (of corporate policies and procedures) and have found the information from the course and from this listserv to be very helpful. (It's also greatly helped my perspective of the skill required and the nature of indexing.) So if even a small percentage of those who take the course (and do well :-) are doing so for my purposes, that decreases the chances of field saturation too. Lisa -------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:42:39 -0400 From: Charlotte Bryant Subject: Crowded Field? I also ordered my USDA government course today. I was told that about 5 calls a day were for this Basic Indexing course. Will there be so many people in this profession in a year from now that rates will go down? I know a well established Indexer will have no problems with work, but are there so many newbies out there that it will be- come impossible for us to find work? Charlotte Bryant Anderson, SC cbryant@carol.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301 Subject: 36 characters Thanks to all who consider this one. The final answer to it seems to be fiddling with margins. I'm using Cindex for Windows. The Document>Record Structure setting is wonderful for setting length of main heading, sub, etc., but then what about when the locator gets added? I wasn't able to adjust that setting after the index was constructed. But that may work as new records are added or when the index is first created. It seems the customer is asking for something we all were used to in a DOS environment, but they haven't yet translated their need to a Windows environment -- or even know we're working in it. And that limit isn't a good one in a Windows environment. I've got something that's close, but not precisely what they're asking for. Windows environments auto-adjust margins up or down a notch without telling us what notches are "legal" for it. (Tried setting a 4.3 inch right margin and came back to discover it was a 4.29 inch right margin.) Counting my Courier characters, I could get a 37 ch. line (including locators and commas) or a 35 ch. line. It'll be fine. I've got other stuff to work on... Deborah ==================== Deborah Patton, Indexer Baltimore, MD dp1301@aol.com 410/243-4688 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:12:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex >Would someone be able to give me some suggestions as to how they decided >which program to buy? > Here quite simply is why I chose Cindex. I went to the Web sites of Cindex and Macrex. I ordered a demo from the Cindex site and requested a demo by e-mailing the Macrex folks. The Cindex demo arrived. I'm still (over a year later) waiting to hear one word from the Macrex people about getting their demo. So obviously I bought Cindex. If Macrex wouldn't even respond to my e-mail, what kind of help could I expect using their program? Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:39:41 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Indexing Software Demos In case anyone hasn't visited the web sites of Cindex, Macrex, or Sky Index lately, they all have demos that can be downloaded for free. Competition _does_ benefit the consumer :-) Laura ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:50:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCNDX Subject: CINDEX RTF file output (Mac or Windows) Hi: Does anybody know how to create: 1. shorter lines and specified wraparound in the RTF file 2. two or more columns in the RTF file So far I have only been able to do these in the hard copy. They don't automatically carry over to the RTF formatted file. Thanks. Anita Levy Space Coast Indexers 1101 S. Atlantic Avenue #401 Cocoa Beach FL 32931 407-536-8431 scndx@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:18:16 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Subject: Re: 36 characters In a message dated 98-05-06 10:06:13 EDT, you write: << Windows environments auto-adjust margins up or down a notch without telling us what notches are "legal" for it. >> I complained to IRC about this a while back and still haven't heard back from them on it. I have at least two clients that have complained about the margin resets for subhead indents in Cindex for Windows rather than using tabs or spaces-- to the point that I now have to import the Windows file into Word and manually replace the indents with tabs. A REAL pain (and expensive, since I didn't bid the jobs with that in mind). In Cindex/DOS, the same clients didn't find it difficult to use search/replace to insert tabs; but that's just not possible when the program plays around with the margin settings. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley K Warkentin Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex Another great feature that Cindex has (and I don't believe Macrex does) is Spell Check. No matter how many times I read over my indexes Spell Check always catches a few typos. Shirley Warkentin Cornerstone Indexing _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:28:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: CINDEX RTF file output (Mac or Windows) In-Reply-To: <199805061452.KAA26405@camel26.mindspring.com> Open your RTF file in a word processing program to do these things. I don't believe you can set anything within Cindex to affect this, other than setting the maximum number of characters in a field. Jan Wright At 10:50 AM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi: > >Does anybody know how to create: > > 1. shorter lines and specified wraparound in the RTF file > 2. two or more columns in the RTF file > >So far I have only been able to do these in the hard copy. They don't >automatically carry over to the RTF formatted file. > >Thanks. > >Anita Levy >Space Coast Indexers >1101 S. Atlantic Avenue #401 >Cocoa Beach FL 32931 >407-536-8431 >scndx@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:17:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sdholler1 Subject: Putting Index-L on hold Hi all, I am going to the conference in Seattle and need to have index-L stop sending while I'm gone. Of course, the instructions that I saved can not be found now that I need them. If someone would please help, it would be appreciated. TIA, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:27:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Information Architecture book For those of you who participated in my Pageless Indexing talks, you might remember that I referred to a book called Information Architecture for the World Wide Web. If you are interested in reading more about this book, it has just been spotlighted at Amazon.com. Go to the home page (www.amazon.com), and under the "Browse Subjects" section on the right, select "Computers & Internet" from the menu. Information Architecture for the World Wide Web is mentioned second from the top. (The book itself is at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1565922824/002-6871799-5929455 .) - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth co-webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.asindexing.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:04:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX support I just wanted to add that I use Macrex and have never had a problem with Macrex support. Gale Rhoads is extremely knowledgeable about the program, and is always willing to explain or assist. I don't know why the person who requested a demo didn't receive one. However, I will point out that email has been known to go astray or never arrive. I went through several periods last spring in which email from lists to which I subscribe simply stopped for two or three days at a time, or decreased to a small percentage of the usual. In the latter case, the messages I did get were responses to messages I didn't get. So I know this can happen. Therefore, I would be cautious about making a judgment about a person or product based on a single incidence of non-reply. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:52:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex > Another great feature that Cindex has (and I don't believe Macrex does) > is Spell Check. No matter how many times I read over my indexes Spell > Check always catches a few typos. > > Shirley Warkentin > Cornerstone Indexing But you can always do your spellchecking in a word-processor, then either re-import or print and save the file from there. From Macrex, I usually go into a word processing program to spell-check, then print and do my final proofread; if I need to make any minor corrections at that point, I do them in the word-processing program. So a spell-checker does not need to be the deciding factor. I'll repeat what several others have said: the best program is the one that works best for you. Cindex and Macrex have somewhat different approaches to building the index -- in other words, to what you see on the screen as you input. Some people find that Cindex's approach is more intuitive for them; others prefer Macrex's approach. I'm sure that SKY Index Pro and wIndex have their own approaches, pros and cons as well. Try them out or at least try to observe someone using them, and see which one "fits" your style best. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:04:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: Putting Index-L on hold In-Reply-To: <199805061618.MAA13029@library.lib.binghamton.edu> Send the following message to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu set index-l nomail Do not put anything else in the body of the message. When you return, send this message: set index-l mail Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator On Wed, 6 May 1998, Sdholler1 wrote: > Hi all, > I am going to the conference in Seattle and need to have index-L stop sending > while I'm gone. Of course, the instructions that I saved can not be found now > that I need them. If someone would please help, it would be appreciated. > > TIA, > Susan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:05:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Aganita Varkentine (S&T Onsite)" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex I am an indexer and have recently joined this list, but I am also writing you because of the similarity of our last names. Perhaps we are distant relatives. Even though my father spelled our name Varkentine when he came to the U.S. from the Ukraine, all the rest of his family spells it Warkentin. They were from Waldheim (sic) near the Sea of Asov. Most of his relatives ended up in Winnipeg, Manitoba. > -----Original Message----- > From: Shirley K Warkentin [SMTP:indexer@JUNO.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 4:38 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex > > Another great feature that Cindex has (and I don't believe Macrex does) > is Spell Check. No matter how many times I read over my indexes Spell > Check always catches a few typos. > > Shirley Warkentin > Cornerstone Indexing > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:27:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joe Hineman Subject: Re[2]: Putting Index-L on hold If it doesn't work when you use: set index-l nomail try: set nomail index-l Joe Hineman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:59:07 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex I would like to add my vote in support of Macrex. It seems that most people so far favour Cindex, but as others have said, it all depends what you are used to. I imagine that most people who have responded to this issue (and that includes myself) have only experienced one program. I have only experienced Macrex and I am completely happy with everything it does. I can't think of anthing that I wish it did but doesn't. Whenever I have had any queries about how to do something Drusilla Calvert has been very helpful. How many people have had equal experience of Macrex and Cindex, and which do they prefer? Margaret Binns ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:13:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex Just a quick comment in response Karen Lane's posting about not receiving a demo in response to an e-mail inquiry: I have just finished checking our database (we track inquries as well as users so that we know who was sent which issues of the Macrex News and other materials) for the past 18 months. It appears that her request for a demo was "lost in the ether." For anyone interested in obtaining a demo of Macrex, there are two options: 1. Download it from the website (http://www.macrex.cix.co.uk) 2. Order it on disk with full documentation (in North America the $50 cost is fully applicable to the purchase of the full version) Here at the North American office, we check e-mail at least twice on most days (including weekends). While priority is given to users, most inquiries are answered within two hours of receipt. Traffic on the Internet and problems encountered by ISPs radically affect mail delivery. I've seen mail arrive within seconds of its transmission (very obvious when a simultaneous voice conversation is going on) and I've seen it take nearly 24 hours for delivery (especially when a deadline is at hand ). Undelivered e-mail is evident when an identical message was sent to several people but never received by one or more of the recipients -- which is why I always respond to all e-mail except those which are themselves acknowledgements. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:17:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex At 06:59 PM 5/6/1998 +0100, J.A Binns wrote: >How many people have had equal experience of Macrex and Cindex, and which >do they prefer? I've used both, but to be honest, I only used Cindex for a few indexes and so I can't say I've had "equal" experience. I just prefer Macrex for the way I work. I've also tried Sky Index, and like it very well, particularly since it fully utilizes the Windows 95 interface. If I were to make a switch, I'd move from Macrex to Sky. But to repeat the oft-written advice, try them all in demo versions. Each person works differently and wants/needs different things out of an indexing program. They are all excellent, professional-strength programs and they all cost about the same for the full version. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:16:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: airline schedules In-Reply-To: <199805060401.XAA00118@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I'm booked on a flight from Phila to Seattle leaving 5:45pm arriving 11:41 pm >return flight a couple days later leaves Seattle at 1:41pm arriving at >12:24 am. > >My question -- it seems this is a mix of Eastern & pacific times. I'm >assuming that departure times are local (5:45 Phila time & 1:41 is Seattle >time). > >How should I consider the arrival times? On all the airline tickets I've had, both departure and arrival times are local. So you would be arriving in Seattle at 11:41 pm Pacific Time. Returning home, you'd be arriving in Philadelphia at 12:24 am EST. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:14:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "A. Carlyle" Subject: Visiting Faculty Positions, Univ. of Washington, GSLIS Graduate School of Library and Information Science University of Washington Seattle, Washington, USA VISITING FACULTY POSITIONS People and Knowledge: Building Information Connections! The Graduate School of Library and Information Science at the University of Washington is searching for two visiting faculty members who subscribe to this vision to start from Fall 1998. These positions are one year appointments with opportunities to apply for future tenure track position openings. The positions require competency in an area of library and information science. Candidates would ideally teach in one or more of the areas below: * conceptual database design * management * information resources and retrieval * design and provision of information services, including children's and young adult services * information policy * organization of information Applicants should have the following qualifications: * an earned Ph.D., or near completion, in library and information science or cognate area * appreciation of the interdisciplinary nature of library and information science and an ability to integrate research areas and disciplinary perspectives * research and publications commensurate with experience. The University of Washington is a research university in an active information environment. The Graduate School of Library and Information Science offers an ALA accredited masters program. Seattle is a multicultural, modern city with numerous cultural, outdoor and athletic activities. Review of applications will begin immediately and will continue until the positions are filled. We are building a multicultural work force and strongly encourage women, ethnic minorities and persons with disabilities to apply. Special interest will be given to applicants who can serve well in an increasingly diverse university community. The University of Washington is an equal opportunity and affirmative action employer. Interested individuals should mail or fax their applications, consisting of (1) letter of interest, (2) a curriculum vitae, and (3) three letters of recommendation to: Raya Fidel Graduate School of Library and Information Science Box 352930 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195-2930 USA voice (206) 543-1888 fax: (206) 616-3152 Detailed information about the school, the faculty, the curriculum, and other aspects of the program can be obtained from the School's website: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~gslis/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:15:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Pet peeve airing In-Reply-To: <199805061406.HAA07925@pacific.net> Pet peeve airing: The lack of preciseness and control made me despise desktop publishing when it first emerged. I know things are better now, but here it is again: >Windows environments auto-adjust margins >up or down a notch without telling us what notches are "legal" for it. (Tried >setting a 4.3 inch right margin and came back to discover it was a 4.29 inch >right margin.) Counting my Courier characters, I could get a 37 ch. line >(including locators and commas) or a 35 ch. line. --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:19:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX support In-Reply-To: <199805061658.JAA00702@pacific.net> >I just wanted to add that I use Macrex and have never had a problem with >Macrex support. Gale Rhoads is extremely knowledgeable about the program, >and is always willing to explain or assist. ::::raising my hand in agreement::::: --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:44:50 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne or Moose McNulty Subject: Re: Sample Indexes Manjit-- I'm just wondering if you received any responses to your question about sample indexes. I haven't seen any at Index-L. Would you be willing to share your responses if you've gotten any? I have those same questions! Thanks, Joanne mcnulty@montana.com ---------- > > Hi everyone, > > I just want to ask everyone how many sample indexes they include with their > resume/brochure. > > Mostly so far I have been sending only ONE sample index with my resume and > business card. The sample index is always from those subjects in which the > publisher specialises. But sometimes the publisher/press is so large that > they publish books on LOTS of different subjects. Under those circumstances, > is it wise to send 2 sample indexs pertaining to different subject matter. > My questions are.... > > 1...If I send just one sample, does this mean that the publisher will give > me indexing jobs only on those subject matter? > > 2...I have listed all the subjects on my brochure in which I will like to > index . But looking at a real 'sample' is entirely different matter. How > important it is to send 2 samples instead of one? > > I would appreciate all the help. Thanks in advance. > > Manjit K. Sahai > RAM Indexing Services > Sahai-Co@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:46:59 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne or Moose McNulty Subject: Re: Apprenticeships Jennifer-- Did you receive any responses personally to the question you asked about apprenticeships? If so, I'd love to see them. I have the same question and haven't seen anyone answer this at Index-L. Thanks, Joanne mcnulty@montana.com ---------- > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I am a beginning indexer. I have taken Basic Indexing and part of = > Applied Indexing through the USDA Graduate School. I read on the ASI = > web site that some beginners start by arranging apprenticeships with = > experienced indexers. Does anyone know the best way to set up an = > apprenticeship? > > Jennifer > > ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > >
I am a beginning indexer.  I = > have taken=20 > Basic Indexing and part of Applied Indexing through the USDA Graduate=20 > School.  I read on the ASI web site that some beginners start by = > arranging=20 > apprenticeships with experienced indexers.  Does anyone know the = > best way=20 > to set up an apprenticeship?
>
 
>
Jennifer
> > ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BD760F.376FC220-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:03:13 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith L Barber Subject: Apprenticeships This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD7921.9E68EC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a beginning indexer, I am still wondering about the best way to = arrange an apprenticeship with an experienced indexer. I haven't had = any responses, yet. Does anyone have any experience with = apprenticeships, either as a novice or as mentor? Please respond on = this list. Thanks! Jennifer ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD7921.9E68EC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As a beginning indexer, I am still = wondering=20 about the best way to arrange an apprenticeship with an experienced=20 indexer.  I haven't had any responses, yet.  Does anyone have = any=20 experience with apprenticeships, either as a novice or as mentor?  = Please=20 respond on this list.  Thanks!
 
Jennifer
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD7921.9E68EC80-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:45:44 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CccJlc Subject: faxes Help! I have Microsoft fax and I want to send a cover sheet along with a sample. The sample is in WordPerfect. How can I accomplish this without the sample being garbled? I tried attaching the file, but it doesn't seem to work. It acted like it was going to send 7+ pages when I only expected it to be 4, so I got nervous and shut it down. :) TIA, Chris cccjlc@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:20:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ABiunno Subject: Re: USDA correspondence course Alfred Hankins, The URL for the USDA Correspondence Course is http://grad.usda.gov I hope this takes you where you want to go. ABiunno@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Manjit K. Sahai" Subject: Literary Criticism Books indexing rates Hi everyone, A prospective client has asked me about my per page rate for literary criticism books. She has mentioned in her letter,..."We use the endnote system, so your per page price would be for a full page of copy without footnotes". My questions are..... 1....What is the going rate for literaray criticism books? I just want to know the ballpark range? 2....Do most publishers get indexes done without footnote/endnote for literary criticism books? Any quick reply would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Sahai-Co@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:22:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: faxes >I have Microsoft fax and I want to send a cover sheet along with a sample. The >sample is in WordPerfect. How can I accomplish this without the sample being >garbled? I tried attaching the file, but it doesn't seem to work. It acted >like it was going to send 7+ pages when I only expected it to be 4, so I got >nervous and shut it down. :) Chris, I bring up the file (in this case your WordPerfect file) in Windows Explorer. (I use Windows 95. The following assumes you do too.) Right click on the file name, then select Send To. On your send-to list you SHOULD have an option for Fax Recipient. If you don't, you need to make sure you have Microsoft Exchange installed. Assuming you can select Send To and Fax Recipient, you will be presented with a series of "wizard" screens that will walk you through the preparation of the fax, including the preparation of a cover sheet. I have used this many times, and it almost always works. (Nothing's perfect!) If you have further questions, I'll try to help. Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:24:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX support Kara Pekar wrote >I just wanted to add that I use Macrex and have never had a problem with >Macrex support. Gale Rhoads is extremely knowledgeable about the program, >and is always willing to explain or assist. No argument there. I merely said that I had received no response when I requested a demo. >I don't know why the person who requested a demo didn't receive one. >However, I will point out that email has been known to go astray or never >arrive. Yes, I'm aware of that problem. >Therefore, I would be cautious about making a judgment about a >person or product based on a single incidence of non-reply. I see that too. In the case I cited in a previous post, I didn't wait around to find out why the Macrex information wasn't forthcoming. I had to get on with my work. I realize that had I had more time, I could have followed up. But it wasn't clear at the time that the message hadn't been received. For all I knew, the response was coming "any day now." Gale Rhoades was kind enough to send me a message in response to my post here on the list. Yes, of course I realize now that some technical glitch interfered with the communication. But for the person who wanted to know why I chose Cindex, that's why. Peace all, Karen Lane klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:56:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names Dear Index listers, I have sent off the index with those confusing Pakistani names, Qaddafi, etc. I want to thank everyone for their help. I really need to do some research on naming conventions around the world. Just as soon as I finish finals and that next index and..... Hahahahahah............who am I kidding? Yours in Indexing, Beth Tudor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:40:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: CINDEX/MACREX support Kari wrote: << I just wanted to add that I use Macrex and have never had a problem with Macrex support. Gale Rhoads is extremely knowledgeable about the program, and is always willing to explain or assist.>> I second, third, and fourth this! Gale has gone way beyond the call of technical support duty for me and other Macrex users. I've never had any problem reaching her. The other day, after she had spent half an hour sorting out a Wordperfect problem for me, I discovered that she was on the cell phone in her car. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:40:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chantal Hamill Organization: Steedman Ramage Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex > > How many people have had equal experience of Macrex and Cindex, and which > do they prefer? > > Margaret Binns I use both! I know exactly when I am going to use one or the other. In the DOS versions, I would use CINDEX when I had complicated page references (which I do have frequently), which CINDEX deals with in a much more straightforward manner than MACREX. I also use CINDEX when I have a lot of numbers to deal with, such as tables of statutes and tables of cases. MACREX would cope with the situation, but it gives me real headaches, and it is much more time consuming: the problem lies in its recognition of page references not by a specific field, but by numbers alone, hence the complications when page references are not straight numbers. CINDEX is generally more direct, fuss-free, simple and quick. I use MACREX, although it often sends me into fits of fury, with all its complicated and sometimes contradictory menus and perverse procedures, for 2 main reasons: the choice of layout is much wider than CINDEX: if I have to use a particular unusual layout at the requirement of a publisher, CINDEX is not always up to it (unless I have missed something). The other reason for using MACREX is the adding and editing facility, which allows you to muck about the index in the one screen, without having to toggle in and out. It allows you to think directly on the screen. I like that. At the moment I am using CINDEX for Windows, which is a great visual improvement on the old CINDEX screen, which I found repellant (the ability to play with colours in MACREX was a great comfort!). It is also an improvement generally, and unless I have layout problems, I use it all the time. The MACREX version of Windows, when it eventually comes, might make me change my mind, but I fear it will be as fussy as the DOS version. It has also allowed me recently to deal with all the accents in a long French book I was indexing. I do not know how MACREX would have dealt with that. There are one or 2 problems with CINDEX for Windows, but at the moment it is my favourite software, but I like having MACREX as a fallback. Not a great help for those who are trying to chose between these 2! But previous statements are correct: you may feel more comfortable with one or the other, it is a matter of temperament. Try the demos. Personally I need both. Chantal Hamill indexer 128 Gowanbank Livingston EH54 6EW Scotland. 01506 413554 e-mail: chantal.hamill@dial.pipex.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:18:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names When you write the naming conventions book I will buy it! Nell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names At 06:18 AM 5/7/98 EDT, Nmbenton wrote: >When you write the naming conventions book I will buy it! >Nell > > Books like this already exist: Lawson, Edwin D. (compiler). Personal Names and Naming: An Annotated Bibliography. New York: Greenwood Press, 1987. (op) (1200 bibliographic citations) Lawson, Edwin D. (compiler). More Names and Naming: An Annotated Bibliography. Westport, Conn.: Greewood Press, 1995. (2200 bibliographic citations) While both volumes contain information on ethnic names, the 1995 volume has more extensive listings of bibliographic citations concerning a wide variety of ethnic personal names. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:13:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex In this ongoing discussion of CINDEX vs. Macrex, indexers looking at software for Windows, especially new indexers need to be aware of a 3rd option -- Sky Index Professional. I've been indexing since 1983 & used Macrex for much of that time but moved to Sky last fall. I'm very glad I did! It provides simultaneous display of entries in index format as well as a grid display "as entered" or "by page number" as well as other grid display options. The typeahead feature saves **many** keystrokes. The field arrangement of entries allows for manipulation of previously entered text (adding prefixes or suffixes to entries; changing page numbers for a group of entries, etc.) Macros & acronyms are other time savers. Kamm Schreiner the developer has been very responsive to questions & suggestions as he continues to improve the software. Macrex & Cindex have been valuable to our work, just don't forget Sky is another possibility. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com >> >> How many people have had equal experience of Macrex and Cindex, and which >> do they prefer? >> >> Margaret Binns > >I use both! I know exactly when I am going to use one or the other. In the DOS >versions, I would use CINDEX when I had complicated page references (which I do > have >frequently), ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:44:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: IndexJim Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex I want to second the praise for Sky Index Professional. I have been indexing for the past 18 years and find Sky so much quicker and easier to use. The technical support has been beyond anything I have experienced from software manufacturers. Jim Pilarski Pilarski Indexing IndexJim@aol.com In a message dated 5/7/1998 7:15:06 AM CST, nanguent@CHESCO.COM writes: > In this ongoing discussion of CINDEX vs. Macrex, indexers looking at > software for Windows, especially new indexers need to be aware of a 3rd > option -- Sky Index Professional. I've been indexing since 1983 & used > Macrex for much of that time but moved to Sky last fall. I'm very glad I > did! It provides simultaneous display of entries in index format as well as > a grid display "as entered" or "by page number" as well as other grid > display options. The typeahead feature saves **many** keystrokes. The field > arrangement of entries allows for manipulation of previously entered text > (adding prefixes or suffixes to entries; changing page numbers for a group > of entries, etc.) Macros & acronyms are other time savers. > > Kamm Schreiner the developer has been very responsive to questions & > suggestions as he continues to improve the software. > > Macrex & Cindex have been valuable to our work, just don't forget Sky is > another possibility. > > Nancy Guenther > nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex Is anyone using Sky Index on an NT machine? I run NT instead of Windows 95, and have found some compatibility problems with commercial software not written specifically for NT. Elizabeth McCullough _______________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: IndexJim [mailto:IndexJim@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 8:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex I want to second the praise for Sky Index Professional. I have been indexing for the past 18 years and find Sky so much quicker and easier to use. The technical support has been beyond anything I have experienced from software manufacturers. Jim Pilarski Pilarski Indexing IndexJim@aol.com In a message dated 5/7/1998 7:15:06 AM CST, nanguent@CHESCO.COM writes: > In this ongoing discussion of CINDEX vs. Macrex, indexers looking at > software for Windows, especially new indexers need to be aware of a 3rd > option -- Sky Index Professional. I've been indexing since 1983 & used > Macrex for much of that time but moved to Sky last fall. I'm very glad I > did! It provides simultaneous display of entries in index format as well as > a grid display "as entered" or "by page number" as well as other grid > display options. The typeahead feature saves **many** keystrokes. The field > arrangement of entries allows for manipulation of previously entered text > (adding prefixes or suffixes to entries; changing page numbers for a group > of entries, etc.) Macros & acronyms are other time savers. > > Kamm Schreiner the developer has been very responsive to questions & > suggestions as he continues to improve the software. > > Macrex & Cindex have been valuable to our work, just don't forget Sky is > another possibility. > > Nancy Guenther > nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:00:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dr DCS Subject: Re: Pet peeve airing Victoria: I don't know what program you are using, but if you will change your measurement from inches to picas, the same measurement system your publisher will use to typeset, you should be able to get the precision you need. DCS The Perfect Page ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:06:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH Subject: Re: HELP: Middle Eastern Names Hi, All - There also is the very useful (but expensive): "People's Names : a Cross-Cultural Reference Guide to the Proper Use of Over 40,000 Personal and Familial Names in Over 100 Cultures" by Holly Ingraham (McFarland & Co., Pub., 1997) Got mine from Amazon.com. As I recall, it cost around $65... Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:05:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: Literary Criticism Books indexing rates Manjit wrote: << 1....What is the going rate for literaray criticism books? I just want to know the ballpark range? 2....Do most publishers get indexes done without footnote/endnote for literary criticism books? >> 1. Rates vary considerable from publisher to publisher. You should charge at LEAST $3.00 a page (any other opinions on this low amount?). Some publishers won't want to pay this much, and you'll have to decide if you want to take the jobs. But literary criticism is heavily conceptual, and therefore not easy indexing! 2. Notes, whether they're foot- or end-, should be indexed when they contain substantive material. (Citations in notes are not indexed.) I think the publisher is trying to say that the pages have more text on them because the notes are at the end? I don't charge differently for pages with or without footnotes. You still have to look at the footnotes to see if there's any substantive material in them. You also charge by the page for the endnote pages, for the same reason (unless they're all pure citation notes and you're sure of this!). Good luck! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:22:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: CINDEX RTF file output (Mac or Windows) In-Reply-To: <199805070403.XAA07527@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Does anybody know how to create: > > 1. shorter lines and specified wraparound in the RTF file > 2. two or more columns in the RTF file I have the Mac version. Try opening the "Margins & Columns" window on the "Document" menu. There you can select the number of columns. The only way I can think of to make the lines shorter is to set the gutter (in that same window) larger than the .25-inch default. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:55:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Author disks I have a question about the disks provided by the author. I have a nice Mac that translates PC disks. I have received an author's PC disk of the book (I index from hard copy, but verify/confirm/check/review from the disk) and I cannot get the pages of the book on disk to line up with the pages of the book in hard-copy form. To work from disk currently, I have to get into the range of what I am looking for, then hunt by paragraphs for every item I want to review, then verify the hardcopy page number. Yuk! I have tried changing fonts, changing sizes, changing margins - and still the book on disk does not match the pagination of the book on paper. Does anyone have suggestions (other than comparing the two versions page by page and inserting page breaks into the disk version)? (The book is 325 pages). Thanks. Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:07:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Duplicate messages Hi, everyone. Sorry to post to the list, but I think I've seen this discussed at some point. Recently, I've been getting two copies of each message posted to the list. Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon? Any ideas on how to get it to stop? Thanks! -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:16:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lindsay Gower Subject: Re: Duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <199805071818.LAA22340@firewall.persistence.com> At 02:07 PM 5/7/98 -0400, Wright, Sharon F. wrote: >Recently, I've been getting two copies of each message posted to the list. >Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon? Any ideas on how to get it to I'm getting duplicates today from some other lists, too. What's up? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Lindsay Gower lindsay@persistence.com -or- lindsay_gower@hotmail.com Technical Writer Persistence Software, Inc. 1720 So. Amphlett Blvd #300 San Mateo CA (650) 372-3606 http://www.persistence.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett Subject: Cindex/Macrex I've used both programs and more. I first started out indexing with WordPerfect, then bought In-Sort, then Macrex, then Cindex. = I now use Cindex for all my work. I like the way I can do everything in Cindex without having to work with the file in a wordprocessing format to= do things like spell check and make page headers the way I want them. I always had trouble in Macrex with printer set-up and using its multiple menus. As others have said, it's probably just because of the way I think= and work. I would suggest anyone try the demos of any interesting program, then decide based on your own thinking/working style, cost, etc. Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:04:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Author disks On 5/7/98 12:55 Martha Osgood wrote: >Does anyone have suggestions (other than comparing the two versions page >by page and inserting page breaks into the disk version)? (The book is >325 pages). That's exactly what I do when faced with that situation. Rather than page breaks I insert a distinctive line (perhaps all asterisks) with the page number indicated. It isn't easy by any means, but having access to searchable text is important enough to me to take the time. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:06:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Duplicate messages In-Reply-To: <07F3ED0E0DA7D1119A5B00805FA79A481B5BF2@LNXCHOEXCH01> Sharon, I'm working on a temp assignment today and someone complained about getting 2 copies of messages and someone else said he thought that was caused by a virus. I have absolutely no idea if that's true, but you might want to check it out. Rachel >Hi, everyone. Sorry to post to the list, but I think I've seen this >discussed at some point. > >Recently, I've been getting two copies of each message posted to the list. >Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon? Any ideas on how to get it to >stop? > >Thanks! > >-- Sharon W. Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:13:49 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex and WP software Thanks for all your input into how you've choosen software programs. There seem to be a number of variables: the way the user thinks, the type of index being created, customer service (and celestial aspects)). I will talk to all the vendors in Seattle, try out the demos, eavesdrop on queries and conversations users have with vendors (and consult my horoscope, too). I find it invaluable to be in the "Indexer's Discussion Group" just as I am getting my toes wet. Naomi ******************************************************************************** ************************** J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troulus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:37:17 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex and WP software Thanks for all your input into how you've choosen software programs. There seem to be a number of variables: the way the user thinks, the type of index being created, customer service (and celestial aspects)). I will talk to all the vendors in Seattle, try out the demos, eavesdrop on queries and conversations users have with vendors (and consult my horoscope, too). I find it invaluable to be in the "Indexer's Discussion Group" just as I am getting my toes wet. Naomi ******************************************************************************** J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troulus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:08:19 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: Re: Duplicate messages might be your mail server - check it out with your ISP (Internet Service Provider)... technical hitch... I don't get 2 copies of this list but did of www.ganggang.com.au - Aussie shareware newsletter... I think it was something to do with the mail servers... forward such info to your ISP... At 11:16 7/05/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 02:07 PM 5/7/98 -0400, Wright, Sharon F. wrote: >>Recently, I've been getting two copies of each message posted to the list. >>Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon? Any ideas on how to get it to > > >I'm getting duplicates today from some other lists, too. What's up? > > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Lindsay Gower lindsay@persistence.com -or- > lindsay_gower@hotmail.com >Technical Writer >Persistence Software, Inc. >1720 So. Amphlett Blvd #300 >San Mateo CA > >(650) 372-3606 http://www.persistence.com >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-98960286, mob 0412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) WWWalker Web Development: http://www.wwwalker.com.au Australian Society of Indexers: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi Sydney Linux Users Group http://www.slug.org.au Waverley Randwick Philharmonic http://www.wwwalker.com.au/wrps.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:33:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: AllWrite N Subject: Re: Duplicate messages I have only received duplicates on this list a few times, and mostly they come from new subscribers. Just as a suggestion, it might be because of either of these: 1) Hair-trigger send key at the sender's end (or tremulous finger at the excitement of posting???) 2) Some send mechanisms (particularly on networks) will keep sending a message if they encounter any kind of delay in a "got it" received signal. My husband's network once sent me over 70 of the same message in the course of an hour because AOL delayed sending its response signal. I thought he was trying to tell me something, but I couldn't figure out what! The network just keeps grinding it out until it reaches a shut-off point or it 'hears back'. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:40:51 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex and WP software Thanks for all your input into how you've choosen software programs. There seem to be a number of variables: the way the user thinks, the type of index being created, customer service (and celestial aspects)). I will talk to all the vendors in Seattle, try out the demos, eavesdrop on queries and conversations users have with vendors (and consult my horoscope, too). I find it invaluable to be in the "Indexer's Discussion Group" just as I am getting my toes wet. Naomi ******************************************************************************** J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troulus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ******************************************************************************** J. Naomi Linzer, Humboldt County, CA Please note my new e-mail address: jnlinzer@saber.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "And in such indexes, although small pricks to their subsequent volumes, there is seen the baby figure of the giant mass of things to come at large." William Shakespeare: "Troulus and Cressida" ******************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Subject: Re: Author disks Sounds to me as though the dots per inch (dpi) of the active printer (and possibly the page sizes and/or font substitutions) is the source of the difference in the pagination. When Word (and most other WYSIWYG programs) opens a file, pagination is altered to match the currently assigned printer. For example, fonts which appear similar may not allow the same number of characters on a line or on a page. Also, material printed at 300dpi allow a different number of characters per line/page than does 600dpi or 12dpi. I presume that the pages from which you are indexing were printed at 1200 dpi. If this is the case, you need to tell Word a small fib -- that you will be printing with a 1200dpi. On a Windows-based system it is a fairly simple matter to install a phantom printer which has a 1200dpi mode (just don't EVER try to actually print using the phantom); perhaps a Macintosh expert can guide you in achieving the same results. Hopes this helps. Feel free to let me know if I've not done a good job of explaining. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America In a message dated 98-05-07 13:57:23 EDT, Martha Osgood wrote: << I have a question about the disks provided by the author. I have a nice Mac that translates PC disks. I have received an author's PC disk of the book (I index from hard copy, but verify/confirm/check/review from the disk) and I cannot get the pages of the book on disk to line up with the pages of the book in hard-copy form. To work from disk currently, I have to get into the range of what I am looking for, then hunt by paragraphs for every item I want to review, then verify the hardcopy page number. Yuk! I have tried changing fonts, changing sizes, changing margins - and still the book on disk does not match the pagination of the book on paper. Does anyone have suggestions (other than comparing the two versions page by page and inserting page breaks into the disk version)? (The book is 325 pages). >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:01:38 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Cindex/Macrex - and there's also SkyIndex While a number of people have discussed the pros and cons on Macrex and Cindex, only one post (that I've seen) has mentioned SkyIndex. This new program has a lot of great features and is worth looking at. Glenda. ============================= Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:10:52 -0600 Reply-To: mcnulty@montana.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne or Moose McNulty Subject: duplicates I'm also getting duplicate messages! Joanne