From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 1-JUL-1998 14:47:25.13 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805C" Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:27 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9805C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:37:02 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Appeal for gizmos and design tips >From Christine Headley In Hong Kong, but not for long It's not long now till we go back to England and my office relocates to the back bedroom, 2.2m x 2.4m. The outside long wall contains a chimney breast (the chimney itself is cemented over), the outside short wall contains a window (and I think a radiator underneath) and the door is at one end of the inside long wall. Apart from that, I can do what I like with it, within reasonable expense! I am thinking of working facing to the right of the chimney breast, with the window to my right. It hasn't got enough electric points. How many should I go for? Just off the floor or at desk height? We are bringing a computer back from HK, but I am proposing to buy a new monitor. What is the best size? If large, where should I put it? About a year ago, before I had to format my hard disk, there was a discussion on Index-L (or was it Copyediting-L?) about a sloping article of furniture that is ideal for putting work-in-progress on. Could someone remind me of the details, with particular reference to how I could import it? I will be getting a carpenter in to build a working surface, and bookshelves along the inside long wall, and some high ones on the inside short wall above the filing cabinet. Is there anything else I should ask him to do? (What is the sensible thing to do with electric cables, so you can move equipment without getting the cable stuck below and the Thing [whatever it may be] stuck above?) What other nifty bits of equipment are there out there that I don't know about? What is *your* favourite gizmo? I am asking these questions in several places, so apologies to multiple co-readers! I will be collecting all the responses into one document and would be happy to pass it on to anyone who would like to know more. Best Christine Hong Kong shortly to be Stroud in Gloucestershire ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:25:33 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: indexing process, avoiding overwhelm In-Reply-To: At 05:18 PM 5/13/98 EDT, you wrote: >Hi all- > >Sorry about that last post, it slipped through before it was done. :-) > >I am (still) trying to get the process down. I have heard so many times, >"overindex at the beginning, it is easier to cut things at the end". When I do >this, though, I have pages and pages of index when I get through the book, and >then I have to sort it *allllllllll* out, subheadings, main headings, cross- >refs, and I can't seem to concentrate very long. I am trying to find a way to >ease this confusion. One thing I am considering is, on the first pass, making >everything a main heading. Then, putting in some cross-references, then going >through the second time to pick up the relationships (double-postings) only >where needed, instead of taking a stab in the dark at it on the first pass. If >anyone could share how they worked through this, it would be much appreciated. > >Chris >cccjlc@aol.com > > It sounds to me as though you are over-overindexing. Personally, I find I tend to add more entries than remove them at the editing stage. I think you are making life too complicated for yourself. Just go through the text and add the main headings, subheadings, cross references etc. that you think are necessary as you go along. I think what people mean by overindexing is 'if in doubt put it in'. But try to get the basic structure of the index worked out as quickly as possible and then tweak it about as you go along. Margaret Binns ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:32:03 +0900 Reply-To: stroud@mail.netvigator.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Appeal for gizmos and design tips ii >From Christine Headley Forgot to say, where do I put my radio for least interference? I usually listen on FM, but also some MW, and reasonable reception for the Test match on LW is absolutely essential. I have a lot of radio-listening to catch up on! Christine Hong Kong but not for long ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:02:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: tried To Whom It May Concern: I will be out of town and don't want hundreds of messages when I return. I tried the following commands and none worked: set index-l no mail index-l no mail set index-l off mail I sent each of these commands (with nothing else in the body of the letter) to: listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu So, what is the proper command? I did download the index of commands, but it is difficult to decipher since it is not formatted well. help rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:08:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: tried In-Reply-To: <199805151203.IAA01458@library.lib.binghamton.edu> Robert, nomail should be one word, not two. Otherwise the computer will not understand. Charlotte Skuster Index-l moderator On Fri, 15 May 1998, Robert A. Saigh wrote: > To Whom It May Concern: > > I will be out of town and don't want hundreds of messages when I > return. I tried the following commands and none worked: > > set index-l no mail > index-l no mail > set index-l off mail > > I sent each of these commands (with nothing else in the body > of the letter) to: > listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu > > So, what is the proper command? I did download the index of > commands, but it is difficult to decipher since it is not formatted > well. > > help > > rob > fugleman@mindspring.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:51:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: tried Try SET NO MAIL INDEX-L. As a rule of thumb, most of these commands require the command first, followed by the name of the list serv. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert A. Saigh [SMTP:fugleman@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Friday, May 15, 1998 8:02 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: tried > > To Whom It May Concern: > > I will be out of town and don't want hundreds of messages when I > return. I tried the following commands and none worked: > > set index-l no mail > index-l no mail > set index-l off mail > > I sent each of these commands (with nothing else in the body > of the letter) to: > listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu > > So, what is the proper command? I did download the index of > commands, but it is difficult to decipher since it is not formatted > well. > > help > > rob > fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:30:07 -0500 Reply-To: mksmith1@bellsouth.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Organization: Smith Editorial Services Subject: Re: need help - editing Living in a university town, and with numerous ties to the graduate faculty, I've COPYedited several doctoral dissertations,... especially in more or less technical subjects, where the students seem less comfortable with the English language. I don't do content as such -- that's the advisor's problem -- just grammar & spelling, logical flow, word choice, etc. And I charge the same page-rate as I do when copyediting for a publisher -- which is also the same page-rate I get for book-indexing. Makes life much simpler. Eileen Allen wrote: > I have just been asked to edit a co-worker's dissertation. While I have > done a fair amount of editing on the job, I have never before been hired > to edit. I have always charged by the page for my indexing work, but I do > not know how this would translate to editing work. > > Can someone tell me how fees are typically charged for editing, and what > those fees would generally be? I don't want to undersell myself, nor do I > want to overcharge. Is there a site that would be useful for me as I dive > into this project? > > Eileen E. Allen -- Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:14:21 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: tobiah r waldron Subject: Books on disc What methods do you find helpful in indexing a book that comes to you on disc? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:35:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pauline Sholtys Subject: Re: indexing process, avoiding overwhelm - Reply I also tend to over-index with the intent of cutting back at the end; I still think it's easier than going back and adding indexing afterwards. If I think the index will run too long for the allotted space, I mark records as I go, so that I can run through and pull everything "questionable" and concentrate my pruning efforts on those entries. Sometimes this means dropping citations completely; sometimes it means pulling together related entries or dropping subheadings. I use Cindex, so I can hide these notes to myself by using curly brackets; probably other programs have ways of doing this too. It also helps to enclose in the brackets some symbol or combination of letters or numbers not used elsewhere in the index; that way I just do a search for "%" or "zzz" or whatever I've used, and all the records I need to work on pop up. Pauline Sholtys psholtys@grolier.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:54:05 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Books on disc tobiah r waldron wrote: > What methods do you find helpful in indexing a book that comes to you on > disc? I print it out and work from hard copy as usual. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:32:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: indexing process, avoiding overwhelm On projects I know will be difficult, I like to mark up a large part if not all of it before entering terms. (This conversation about marking up has gone around many times). As I advance through the pages, the appropriate types of things to index gradually reveal themselves to me. Then when actually entering in the terms, I can leave out things I may have marked up earlier if I later decide it wouldn't be appropriate to have them in the index. As I've said here several times, I view indexing in terms of layers of information. Each layer of information carries with it a given volume of terms. The operative assumption is that if a layer is indexed at all, _every_ reference to information in that layer in the text must be covered (all such terms or none at all). This differs markedly from many other indexer's approach, where terms are decided on more of a case-by-case basis. I decide terms on a layer-by-layer basis instead. Often in indexing meetings you will hear people who index by the first approach say things like [in response to whether or not something should be in the index or not] "well if I was a reader who was interested in that information I'd be upset I couldn't find it". This normally brings a flutter of heads shaken in agreement. The fallacy of that very common argument is that any book will produce an index with perhaps a thousand winners and about 1,000,000 losers! In other words there will always be an infinite number of possible terms and alternate entry points (synonyms, etc.) that can theoretically be included. The overly obsessive can get almost psychotic applying this approach. In certain situations where unlimited money and unlimited index space is available this can produce a marvelous index. But in the real world that I at least inhabit there are always significant time, money, and index space limitations, so the proper choice of terms is always an optimization process and involves many terms that can not be included that some person somewhere might possibly want to look up. To give a concrete example. Say I'm doing a book on environmental analysis and remediation like I did recently. The book was huge and the space for the index small relatively speaking. I discovered that indexing just the named processes and analysis techniques and applications alone used up almost all available space. For example many 5 page articles on mass spec techniques could easily produce 30 named analysis techniques (plus each technique often had as many as 3-4 variant names depending on what research group is involved); so it was a no-brainer to me at least that example mass spectrums could not be included. Similarly it was a no-brainer that materials of construction was an "information layer non gratis". Now in an indexing meeting someone would say "but if I was a reader and I wanted to look up specific applications of steel I'd be disappointed". Yep. They would be. Life's tough. I sure hope I'm not the first to point this out to you; oh yeah and while we're at it life's not fair either. But if that was included perhaps at the expense of other terms another reader who wanted to look up a named chemical process might also be disappointed. I make a judgement that finding the latter is more important than finding the former, if there isn't room for both. Now of course if there was an actual article or discussion specifically about what types of materials of construction would be appropriate in remediation applications, that should be included. Hope this doesn't leave you just more confused! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:15:52 -0700 Reply-To: JEANMIDD@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JEANMIDD Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Indexing Software am new to indexing and just getting ready to learn and take classes. Some of you have already given me some very good advice on how to approach indexing. My specific question is Do any of you use IndexAid2 (for DOS)? The information I received sounded impressive (reviews and testimonials), but the information did come from Santa Barbara Software, the maker. I have also been considering wINDEx. After I am sure indexing is what I want to do, I plan to invest in a program such as CINDEX. BTW, I am enjoying "lurking" and getting ideas from your questions and answers on Index-L of the issues that confront an indexer. I would also be interested in knowing how a word processing program, such as Word97, can be used for preparing an index for a nonelectronic document. Thanks for your help. Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:10:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SharonSims Subject: Re: Appeal for gizmos and design tips In a message dated 98-05-15 04:41:17 EDT, you write: > About a year ago, before I had to format my hard disk, there was a > discussion on Index-L (or was it Copyediting-L?) about a sloping article > of furniture that is ideal for putting work-in-progress on. Could > someone remind me of the details, with particular reference to how I > could import it? > I think you may be referring to the Editor's Desk offered by a company named Levenger. It comes in two sizes and four different wood finishes. There is also a portable version. Try their website: http://www.levenger.com for more info. Sharon Sims ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:28:51 +1200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: ISO 999 Jane Budge, Information Officer, Standards NZ, writes to me saying (inter alia): "No neither New Zealand or Australia has adopted ISO 999-1996. There is also no draft currently under way to adopt it." But I remember Alan Walker writing in Index-l, in December or January (I think), that ISO 999 was to be adopted as an Australian standard and as a New Zealand standard. Please, can anyone confirm the reliability of either Jane Budge's or Alan Walker's information? From Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:01:47 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paul R. Joiner" Subject: Indexing corporate names (UK) Sorry for what might be taken to be a simple query, and my first of the group. It would probably be most easily answered if I could get hold of a text book but SI is having trouble fulfilling my order at the moment and I would like an answer shortly. I am constructing annual indexes to the minutes of my parish council and most of it seems to be going well until I need to index the names of corporate bodies. How should I index such titles as:- G. Wright Plumbing & Heating Ltd. W. Smith (Barnard Castle) Ltd. K. H. Flavell & Sons (Welding) Ltd. William Barlow & Sons Ltd. Any help to a budding colleague would be greatly appreciated. Regards Paul Paul R. Joiner Greystones, The Spital, Yarm-on-Tees, Yorkshire, TS15 9EX Tel: +44 (0)1642 782957 http://homepages.enterprise.net/pjoiner/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:54:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Belinda Robinson-Jones Organization: OHIO UNIVERSITY Subject: Getting indexing contracts with publishers Hello everyone: My name is Belinda R. Jones, and I am a "novice" to the freelance world of indexing. I am seeking my first indexing "contract", and I was wondering if a particular type of publishing company, organization, etc. is more inclined to give new indexers a chance. Are academic publishers more inclined to hire new indexers or are medical publishers, etc. Has anyone noticed any trends in the freelance hiring practices of publishing companies? Are there any kinds of publishing companies that are in need of the "scarcity" of indexers? Please answer if you can!! Thanks, Belinda R. Jones ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:03:28 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Getting indexing contracts with publishers You may try sub-contracting with an editorial firm. They won't pay as well, but you will get a variety of projects and invaluable built-in evaluation before your work reaches the client. This will give you a resume, a chance to learn more and confidence as well. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:00:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anntrue Subject: Re: Indexing Software Jean, Another possibility for a beginning indexing program is Sky Indexing's basic program. It does not have the heavy duty options of the Pro version. I just bought a copy, planning to use it to start. Also, you can upgrade to Pro for the difference in the prices, which I plan to do later on. Check their web site at: http://www.sky-software.com anntrue@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:49:56 -0700 Reply-To: "vbirchfield@kalesis.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Organization: Kalesis Systems Subject: Re: Indexing corporate names (UK) Paul, I'm a beginner too, but I looked this up in Wellisch's 'Indexing from A to Z and in Nancy Mulvany's 'Indexing Books'. They both say that corporate names are not inverted, even when the first part is a forename or an initial. So they should be indexed justed as you have submitted them. Both also say that cross-posting under the last name is appropriate if you think the reader will look for the company under the last name. Wellish goes on to say that enclosure of the inverted name or initials in parentheses and the absence of any commas is standard practice. Two of your entries have qualifying data in parens already, so the inverted entries below look odd to me, but odd doesn't necessarily mean incorrect. Maybe you could move the parenthetical info so that it appears after the Ltd., but I'm not sure that helps. Does anyone have other suggestions? Assuming word by word alphabetization, G. Wright Plumbing & Heating Ltd. K. H. Flavell & Sons (Welding) Ltd. or K.H. Flavell & Sons Ltd. (Welding) W. Smith (Barnard Castle) Ltd. W. Smith Ltd. (Barnard Castle) William Barlow & Sons Ltd. ------ Barlow (William) & Sons Ltd. Flavell (K.H.) & Sons (Welding) Ltd. or Flavell (K.H.) & Sons Ltd. (Welding) Smith (W.) (Barnard Castle) Ltd. Smith (W.) Ltd. (Barnard Castle) Wright (G.) Plumbing & Heating Ltd. Vicki Birchfield vbirchfield@kalesis.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul R. Joiner [SMTP:pjoiner@ENTERPRISE.NET] Sent: Saturday, May 16, 1998 2:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Indexing corporate names (UK) Sorry for what might be taken to be a simple query, and my first of the group. It would probably be most easily answered if I could get hold of a text book but SI is having trouble fulfilling my order at the moment and I would like an answer shortly. I am constructing annual indexes to the minutes of my parish council and most of it seems to be going well until I need to index the names of corporate bodies. How should I index such titles as:- G. Wright Plumbing & Heating Ltd. W. Smith (Barnard Castle) Ltd. K. H. Flavell & Sons (Welding) Ltd. William Barlow & Sons Ltd. Any help to a budding colleague would be greatly appreciated. Regards Paul Paul R. Joiner Greystones, The Spital, Yarm-on-Tees, Yorkshire, TS15 9EX Tel: +44 (0)1642 782957 http://homepages.enterprise.net/pjoiner/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:22:42 -0700 Reply-To: "vbirchfield@kalesis.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Organization: Kalesis Systems Subject: Re: Royal Errors- a lesson on the value of careful proofreading Yikes. As Christine Shuttleworth pointed out, I mangled Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha into Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Golgotha which surely has him rolling in his grave. ;-} -Vicki (now living in dread of committing such a grievous error in an index) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:19:01 +1200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: A silly index Presumably at least some other index-l subscribers, as I do, like to know about silly indexes. Well, I've just found one in Julian Barnes's collection of his contributions to the New Yorker, Letters from London 1990-1995 (Picador, 1995). Let a single entry suffice as an example: sheep: Geoffrey Howe, 54; Andrew Neil, 151; Lloyd's investors, 207, 236 The index can, I think, be attributed to Barnes himself. No one else is credited with it, and no one else would (or should) have dared take such a flippant approach. (Apologies if you know about all this already. If there was an earlier mention of it on Index-l, I missed it.) From Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:35:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SMWilkersn Subject: Re: Web Indexing Age / Dan how did you get Index-L to reply to you? Thanks Dan and linda, That clears up a lot of things but what is the difference between the Web and the Internet? What use is the Web without the Internet and vice versa? Why does my service provider provide a globe (WWW) to click on and also a Internet icon to click. They both take me to the same place. Also, Dan, when I click to reply to the list it put your e-mail address in the "To:" box. What did you do to make it do that? That would certainly help keep people from accidently posting to the list when it should be address to the author, like me...:) Susan Wilkerson Consortims@aol.com http://memembers.aol.com/consortiums/cfphome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:37:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bbschane Subject: Re: Getting indexing contracts with publishers Hey Belinda--my name is Beverly. I'm interested in getting started in this field myself. Could you let me know if anyone e's you with a reply on this? Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:30:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Indexing Process This is a late reply to a recent thread about the indexing process and how to avoid being whelmed by it. This may or may not be applicable only to Cindex users (don't know since I haven't used Macrex or SkyIndex). Generally I mark up the text with hiliters a chapter at a time and then make the entries for the chapter. While marking up I rely on my memory to come close to term selection. When I have finished making the entries I set Cindex to draft mode. This shows all the entries as individual records. For instance, the entries: dogs poodles, 14-17, 22-24, 45 Schnauzers, 18-19, 25-27 would appear as: dogs poodles...14-17 ...22-24 ...45 Schnauzers...18-19 ...25-27 Any new records (records created in this session) are flagged on the left with a bullet. This makes it easy for me to compare the spelling, syntax, term selection, etc., of new records with what I have already done. Obviously, the farther I am into the index the more meaningful this is. In any case it makes the final editing process a whole lot easier. The only drawback I see is that I have to end the session (close the file) at the end of each chapter to be able to begin a fresh set of new records. My $.02 Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:52:03 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: Web Indexing Age / Dan how did you get Index-L to reply to The message <199805171537.QAA28902@irwell.zetnet.co.uk> from SMWilkersn contains these words: > Thanks Dan and linda, > That clears up a lot of things but what is the difference between the Web and > the Internet? What use is the Web without the Internet and vice versa? Why > does my service provider provide a globe (WWW) to click on and also a Internet > icon to click. They both take me to the same place. I'll have a stab at this, though once again I'm open to correction! As I understand it, the Internet is a physical thing - a network of interlinked telephone (and possibly other) communications networks linking computers together. Web browsers make up one of several different kinds of software used to access information stored within those computers. The Web itself is a concept rather than a physical thing - an "umbrella" concept referring to all the information resources which are available via a Web browser. It couldn't exist without the Internet, but the reverse isn't true. My ISP also provides an Internet button, but clicking on that leads me to a button-bar allowing selection of different programs - a Web browser, ftp client, Telnet client, IRC client, etc.. Each of these represents a service available via the Internet (i.e. the Web is currently only one of these services). I'm not familiar with all of them, but as far as I know the others either provide alternative ways of accessing information which is also available via a Web browser, or - as in the case of IRC - give access to other (non-Web) Internet services. Some of the confusion (including mine!) stems from the fact that newer versions of browsers can do a range of tasks for which you used to need separate programs. For example, ftp clients were once the only way of downloading files stored on another computer, but nowadays you can do that equally well by clicking on a link in a Web page. It seems the ultimate aim of browser developers is to make the browser *the* way of accessing *all* Internet services, and if and when that's achieved the only distinction remaining will be between the Web as content and the Internet as physical carrier/storer. -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:06:59 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Clarry Subject: subscription info Can someone please send me subscription info regarding this list ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:44:27 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: Indexing process Craig Brown wrote: >Generally I mark up the text with hiliters a chapter at a time and then >make the entries for the chapter. While marking up I rely on my memory >to come close to term selection. As a matter of interest, how many indexers mark the text before starting to type? I just launch straight in and start typing entries as I read the text. That way I don't need to rely on my memory because all the terms I have selected so far are there in front of me on the screen, all arranged in order. Very often the terms in the index are not the exact words used in the text, so how do you mark that in the text? I make alterations all the time as I am going along and watching the index develop. Maybe I decide that what I initially thought would stand as a heading actually needs subheadings, and I will then check back to the pages which were listed just under the main heading and I will give them subheading entries instead. Or maybe I will alter the wording of an entry. I use Macrex by the way. After I have made the index in this way, I check the text against a print-out of the index to make sure I haven't missed anything and that everthing seems to be arranged in a sensible way. I write all the alterations on the index print-out and then type them in at the end. It would be interesting to hear how other people's working methods compare. Margaret Binns ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:42:43 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: indexing process, avoiding overwhelming editing Hi, I always allow a third of my total time for editing. I have felt much the same as you. Aghast at the amount of time I have 'wasted' as I delete entries, I have vowed to be more efficient the first time through, and only create entries that will be of value in the final index. But it doesn't work. I am now convinced that overentry is essential to ensure that the best possible entries and relationships are there in the end. I have never considered entering terms in any format but the one I might expect them to be in at the end. To do so would, I think, take away some of your ability to observe relationships and choose appropriate sub-entries. Using a program like SkyIndex helps, as once you start typing a term you can choose similar terms that already exist. For example, in normal indexing you might enter 'arboviral infections', 'arbovirus infections' and 'arboviruses' for the same subject. You will then have to choose one at the editing stage and change the others. With Skyindex when you type 'arbo' the term you have already typed starting with 'arbo' will appear in your entry box. You can type Enter to choose this term. This ensures that you always use the same term for the same meaning (unless you choose to do differently). I don't think indexers are alone in having to 'waste' work. I have been reading about substantive editing, and one of the biggest problems there can be persuading an author to delete chapters or other chunks from a book. They have probably put more into those chapters than we have put into our index entries. Cheers , Glenda. You wrote: "Hi all- Sorry about that last post, it slipped through before it was done. :-) I am (still) trying to get the process down. I have heard so many times, "overindex at the beginning, it is easier to cut things at the end". When I do this, though, I have pages and pages of index when I get through the book, and then I have to sort it *allllllllll* out, subheadings, main headings, cross- refs, and I can't seem to concentrate very long. I am trying to find a way to ease this confusion. One thing I am considering is, on the first pass, making everything a main heading. Then, putting in some cross-references, then going through the second time to pick up the relationships (double-postings) only where needed, instead of taking a stab in the dark at it on the first pass. If anyone could share how they worked through this, it would be much appreciated." ============================= Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:18:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Indexing process On 5/18/98 3:44 J.A Binns wrote: >Very often the terms in the index are not the exact words used in >the text, so how do you mark that in the text? When I mark I am just using hiliter to bring the term to my attention. If, while actually entering it, I remember terminology I have used before I will enter the term the same way. Otherwise I resolve it in the chapter edit. >I just launch straight in and start typing entries as I read the >text. How do you account for ranges? When you're entering a term do you make any attempt to see if it will begin an ongoing discussion or do you wait till you see it again and then adjust the previous entry? I know this has been discussed before but can't remember the methodology. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Indexing process In-Reply-To: <199805181320.GAA01530@powergrid.electriciti.com> I also don't mark entries. I can check out entries by order of input in Cindex, so advanage of marking is lost to me. I can always check any entry very easily with the hard copy. I also tend to more heavily index at the beginning. I try to check both a draft form and formatted version at the end of each chapter. There's always editing at the end, but this mini-edit as I work allows me to make decisions when the material is most fresh. Naturally, I check individual entries as I work, if needed. For me, always having a concept of the overall finished index helps me balance the seeing both the whole forrest and individual trees. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:35:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing process At the risk of divulging a company trade secret... :-) With author books, we usually sit down with the Table of Contents (assuming that it is at all useful) and mark up primary treatment areas there first before beginning the creation process. It's a good way to get an overall view of the contents, including things like page ranges, areas of primary discussion and similar material treated in different locations. Of course, this means that you have to request that the editors or author or someone include the TOC with the copy... For what it's worth... -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Brown [SMTP:lastword@I1.NET] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 9:18 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing process > > On 5/18/98 3:44 J.A Binns wrote: > > >Very often the terms in the index are not the exact words used in > >the text, so how do you mark that in the text? > > When I mark I am just using hiliter to bring the term to my attention. > If, while actually entering it, I remember terminology I have used before > I will enter the term the same way. Otherwise I resolve it in the > chapter edit. > > >I just launch straight in and start typing entries as I read the > >text. > > How do you account for ranges? When you're entering a term do you make > any attempt to see if it will begin an ongoing discussion or do you wait > till you see it again and then adjust the previous entry? I know this > has been discussed before but can't remember the methodology. > > > Craig Brown > > > ========================================== > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing > (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword > ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:16:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Longhorns Anyone got a quick answer for this? What college or university in Texas has a team nickname of "The Longhorns?" TIA, Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Longhorns The University of Texas. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:25:31 -0500 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Longhorns Joanne E. Clendenen wrote: > The University of Texas. ------------------- Specifically, the University of Texas at Austin. All the other universities in the U.T. System have their own team names. Linda Fetters ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:19:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Longhorns The University of Texas at Austin. (UT Austin) -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Brown [SMTP:lastword@I1.NET] > Sent: Monday, May 18, 1998 11:17 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Longhorns > > Anyone got a quick answer for this? What college or university in Texas > has a team nickname of "The Longhorns?" > > TIA, > Craig Brown > > > > ========================================== > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing > (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword > ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:56:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Indexing process At 10:35 AM 5/18/98 -0400, Wright, Sharon F. wrote: >At the risk of divulging a company trade secret... :-) > >With author books, we usually sit down with the Table of Contents (assuming >that it is at all useful) and mark up primary treatment areas there first >before beginning the creation process. Yes, the TOC is one way to get a feel for index headings, but in many cases (e.g., scholarly books, etc.) the titles of chapters might be useless from an indexing perspective. TOCs differ in their degree of detail, too. One piece of advice my indexing professor gave my class when I was learning to index was that one should always read the introduction and the concluding chapter before tackling the whole book. That has proved to be good advice, because many of the crucial concepts are named in those chapters. Of course, there are some books that have neither an introduction nor a concluding chapter...! A word on marking text: I am a firm believer in marking the complete text before entering index terms; to do this, I use a yellow Hi-liter. In other words, I read the whole book before I enter terms. Since I read very fast, I have found that it really does not take me that much longer to do this as opposed to just entering terms "cold" (straight from the page with no marking). I just feel more in control of the material and the concepts if I read the material first. When I have entered terms straight from the page (and I have done this with a few books, usually not scholarly books), I have highlighted the terms as I go through the book, because by doing so I make it easier for myself to double check entries and edit the index later. As Craig mentioned in regard to marking text versus not doing so, page ranges and other notes about index structure/standard terminology can be worked out in the margins; I also create abbreviations in CINDEX for subheadings and headings that are repeated a lot in the index. If one has not read the book beforehand, checking for page ranges during the entry process can often slow you down. Without a broad overview of the book, one might indeed feel overwhelmed by details. On the other hand, if the book is well structured and edited, it should be clear just what the author considers to be important. If a subject is a new subject about which the indexer knows little, it is a good idea to go to the library and see how indexes in other books on the subject are structured. Reading lots of indexes in general is also a help in getting a feel for how to structure indexes. As we have discussed this marking versus non-marking question before, I end with a caveat: everyone needs to find the way to work that is best for them. This is my way. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:17:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Longhorns >The University of Texas at Austin. (UT Austin) Thanks to all who responded. In case anyone's wondering, yes, I did need that to complete an index. I marvel at the collective knowledge of the subscribers to this list. Cheers, Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Yet Another Orgy [no kidding] For many of you now exhilerated, debilitated, and impecunious, I would like to point you to another upcoming orgy in San Francisco: Web Design & Development '98. It runs June 21-25. At $495-$1795 I can never afford these conferences and attend only the exhibits, four or five times a year. NB: I urge you to at least request a brochure from 718-821-6723. Online registration and an information site is at http://www.mfweb.com. An advantage of registering for Exhibits Only, even if you do not actually attend, is that you -- probably -- are placed on a mailing list for future events. There are at least four courses that I would love to attend; I'm quoting from the description of one of them below. * * * * * * * WEB SITE ARCHITECTURE: PRINCIPLES OF DIGITAL LIBRARIANSHIP Lou Rosenfeld The fields of information science and librarianship offer valuable insights into the design and architecture of websites. We will explore the principles of information architecture and their application towards (sic) the design of sites that support growth, management, and ease of use. We will revue the design of organization, labeling, navigation, searching, and indexing systems. And, time allowing, we will cover use of metaphors, paper proto- types, scenarios, and blueprints as tools for communicating the design. Examples and case studies are interwoven to provide a balance between theory and practice. FURTHER QUOTE, heavily edited, from an "advertising" newsletter: - Molly Steenson, goddess of EstroNet and Maximag, moderator -- Women on the Web Panel, with shades of a fabulous repeat performance from South X Southwest -- this was such a smashing success at SXSW that it needs to manifest again in the physical world. What does it mean to be a woman online? I'll be there for this one. - Glenn Kurtz, media theory prof from Stanford and author of fabulous upcoming book on same -- Lessons Ecommerce Could Learn from Dada -- What is a product? Who is a producer, and who's a consumer? What constitutes a transaction? The inherited, industrial-era definitions of our commercial life are changed by the dynamics of digital technology, and we're still working on defining those changes. Glenn will be jumpstarting that process...hang onto your hat! * * * * * * * Sorry for the length of this, but it would be nice if _someone_ on the list could attend and share their experience. Cheers, dllt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:37:23 +1000 Reply-To: Michael Wyatt Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: ISO 999 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD8322.DF67F220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simon Cauchi wrote: Jane Budge, Information Officer, Standards NZ, writes to me saying = (inter alia): "No neither New Zealand or Australia has adopted ISO 999-1996. = There is also no draft currently under way to adopt it." But I remember Alan Walker writing in Index-l, in December or January (I think), that ISO = 999 was to be adopted as an Australian standard and as a New Zealand = standard. Please, can anyone confirm the reliability of either Jane Budge's or = Alan Walker's information?=20 I have just telephoned Standards Australia, and they assure me that it = is examining ISO 999 now, and has set September as its target for = adoption as an Australian standard. AusSI has recommended that it be = adopted without change. I believe that it is most likely to be adopted = as a joint Australia/New Zealand standard. Alan is at present in the US; = I will ask him to report more fully when he returns at the end of this = month. Michael Wyatt President, New South Wales Branch=20 Australian Society of Indexers Email keyword@ozemail.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD8322.DF67F220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Simon Cauchi wrote:
 
Jane Budge, Information Officer, Standards NZ, writes to me saying=20 (inter
alia): "No neither New Zealand or Australia has adopted = ISO=20 999-1996. There
is also no draft currently under way to adopt = it." But I=20 remember Alan
Walker writing in Index-l, in December or January (I = think),=20 that ISO 999
was to be adopted as an Australian standard and as a New = Zealand=20 standard.
Please, can anyone confirm the reliability of either Jane = Budge's=20 or Alan
Walker's information? 
 
I have just telephoned Standards Australia, and they = assure me=20 that it is examining ISO 999 now, and has set September as its target = for=20 adoption as an Australian standard. AusSI has recommended that it be = adopted=20 without change. I believe that it is most likely to be adopted as a = joint=20 Australia/New Zealand standard. Alan is at present in the US; I will ask = him to=20 report more fully when he returns at the end of this = month.
 
Michael Wyatt
President, New South Wales=20 Branch 
Australian Society of = Indexers
Email keyword@ozemail.com.au<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BD8322.DF67F220-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:42:53 +1000 Reply-To: Michael Wyatt Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Headword, Choice of This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD8323.A3CC2140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The other day I was in hardware store in the Blue Mountains west of = Sydney, buying an implement called a plasterer's small tool (used for = such tasks as tidying up cornice joints). I was amused to note that the = inventory label on the shelf read "Tool, small, plasterer's". =20 Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street Surry Hills NSW 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 Email keyword@ozemail.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD8323.A3CC2140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The other day I was in  = hardware store in=20 the Blue Mountains west of Sydney, buying an implement called a = plasterer's=20 small tool (used for such tasks as tidying up cornice joints). I was = amused to=20 note that the inventory label on the shelf read "Tool, small,=20 plasterer's".
 
Michael Wyatt
Keyword Editorial=20 Services
22 Kendall Street Surry Hills NSW 2010 Australia
Phone = 0500 539=20 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785
Email keyword@ozemail.com.au<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01BD8323.A3CC2140-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:43:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Thomas P. Copley" Subject: ANNOUNCE> Summer Dynamic Duo Workshops On XML and DHTML Open +-----------------------------------------------+ | THE DYNAMIC DUO WORKSHIP: XML & DYNAMIC HTML | +-----------------------------------------------+ The Dynamic Duo Workshop: XML & Dynamic HTML is a six-week workshop conducted entirely via email and the World Wide Web (WWW). It introduces the beginner and somewhat more advanced user to the eXtensibe Markup Language (XML) and dynamic HyperText Markup Language (HTML). For further information about the workshop, please see the URL http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/duo.html HOW TO SIGN UP Two Dynamic Duo Workshops are scheduled for this summer: June Session June 8 - July 17 July Session July 6 - August 14 Sign up for ONE session of each workshop only unless you plan to take it more than once. To sign up, please send an e-mail message to the address: majordomo@arlington.com and in the body of the message, include the words: to subscribe to: subscribe duo-jun the June session of Dynamic Duo subscribe duo-jul the July session of Dynamic Duo This will automatically put you on the mailing list for more information about each workshop, and you will receive an acknowledgment with the particulars about signing up, and unsubscribing, should you decide not to participate. If you have any difficulty with this procedure or fail to receive a response, please send e-mail to the address in the signature line. The workshop leader, Thomas P. Copley, Ph.D., has successfully taught several on-line courses in the past, including most recently, Tune In the Net Workshop , first offered in 1997 and Make the Link Workshop , introduced in 1995. ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY tcopley@arlington.com Dynamic Duo Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:52:42 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Development of the WWW In-Reply-To: <05242177347625@domain1.bigpond.com> > Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:52:03 +0100 > From: Linda Sutherland > Subject: Re: Web Indexing Age / Dan how did you get Index-L to reply to > As I understand it, the Internet is a physical thing - a network of > interlinked telephone (and possibly other) communications networks > linking computers together. Web browsers make up one of several > different kinds of software used to access information stored within > those computers. The Web itself is a concept rather than a physical > thing - an "umbrella" concept referring to all the information > resources which are available via a Web browser. It couldn't exist > without the Internet, but the reverse isn't true. Linda's definitions are spot-on, but also of interest is the way in which the Web actually developed as a method of linking together existing types of data - gopher menus, WAIS lists, Archie and Veronica file searches, Usenet newsgroups, telnet sessions - into a single form that could be accessed by one type of software instead of requiring half-a-dozen. As far as I know, Tim Berners-Lee's original intention was to provide easy access to these 'traditional' data formats; the appearance of an easy authoring language in which people could create pages of new data was an unforeseen by-product. If the Web had had to start from scratch with new data as well as a new system I doubt whether it would have taken off so quickly - or at all. Jonathan ============================= Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal Diagonal@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:19:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing process In-Reply-To: <199805190401.XAA16864@mixcom.mixcom.com> >How do you account for ranges? When you're entering a term do you make >any attempt to see if it will begin an ongoing discussion or do you wait >till you see it again and then adjust the previous entry? I know this >has been discussed before but can't remember the methodology. Like Margaret, I don't mark pages, either. The way I handle page ranges is to scan the following pages to see if the discussion continues. You can often see how far the discussion goes. If I *think* the discussion stops after one page and then find that it picks up again later, I just go back and add those pages to the entry. And like Cynthia, I read the introduction first (although not the concluding chapter), but I index it last. Whether I read through the whole book before starting to index it depends on the type of book; certainly, if I don't feel comfortable, as I start the indexing, that I've understood the book, then I go back and read the whole thing. But even when I do read the book first, I still don't mark up, because I find it slows me down too much and doesn't accomplish anything that my eyes can't do when I sit down to enter terms. I'm not advocating my method (or any other method) for everyone. But I do like these discussions of methods, because (a) it's interesting to hear about different indexers' work methods, and (b) sometimes I hear about a new method that I want to try out. Typically, I will try out a new method when I have a project that has a generous schedule. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:20:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Indexing help needed Hi all. I'm posting the following for a colleague of mine on another list. If any one of you are interested in the job(s), please contact Patti directly. Thanks. Elaine >I'm hoping one of you can help me find a freelance indexer. > >I have two very clinical books in production right now, both of which will >require indexes this summer. I'm looking for indexers with urology and >pathology knowledge. One book will need to be indexed in June and one in >July. The same person could do both books; the schedules don't overlap. > >Contact me at the e-mail listed below if you're interested and I'll send all >the pertinent details. Thanks! > >------------ >Patti Wolf >Wolf Publications, Inc. >(301) 694-9203 >(301) 846-7718 (fax) >patti@wolfpubls.com >www.wolfpubls.com > Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:46:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: ASI Golden Gate Chapter Meeting DEADLINE for receipt of reservations is next Monday for: Golden Gate Chapter, American Society of Indexers Annual May Meeting: Saturday May 30, 1998 12:00 noon to 3:00 p.m. Featuring: Reports from Seattle AND Discussion of what YOU would like from the Chapter for the coming year (over lunch with a view of San Francisco Bay) Location: Fort Mason Center in San Francisco, Room C-205 (convenient access from East Bay, North Bay, and Peninsula, with plenty of free parking) For further information, contact Julie Shawvan: shawvan@well.com or (415)922-5996. To make a reservation, please mail your check with the form below. Reservations must be received by May 25. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reservation for ASI Golden Gate Chapter Meeting, May 30, 1998 Name__________________________________ Phone________________________ Address_____________________________________________________________ Check enclosed for ____$16 (ASI members) or ____$18 (nonmembers) Please make check payable to: ASI Golden Gate Chapter. Choice of sandwich: Turkey___Avocado & Cheese___Roast Beef___Ham___ (Served with chips and homemade dessert.) Choice of beverage: Mineral Water___Assorted Juices___Diet Cola___ (Coffee will also be served.) Mail check, to be received by May 25, to: Julie Shawvan GGASI May Meeting 1925 Pierce St. #4 San Francisco, CA 94115-2640 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:02:12 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Cindex 1.0a I have misplaced the address for the Cindex 1.0 fix-it file. Can anyone provide it. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:57:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett Subject: Periodicals When indexing periodicals, is there a standard billing practice as far as= when you invoice the client? I could see invoicing when a year of the journal is indexed if you are indexing past issues, but when indexing the= current year, do you bill quarterly perhaps? = Thanks, Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 18:53:09 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Re: Indexing process Carol Roberts wrote: > I'm not advocating my method (or any other method) for everyone. But I do > like these discussions of methods, because (a) it's interesting to hear > about different indexers' work methods, and (b) sometimes I hear about a > new method that I want to try out. > I want to second Carol's thoughts. This has been a great thread. I am nearing the last lesson in the USDA course and want to really refine my methods of marking up text. I had just questioned a friend on her methods because I'd found the methods I'd been using were too confusing/awkward. Being the type of person I am, I like the "redundancy" of a mark in the text and an entry on the computer. I'm not convinced that it's not a waste of time however. Any more thoughts on this subject will find a welcome here. Dan -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Dan Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing and Editing Services http://WFWIndex.necaweb.com/ Woodstock, CT, USA -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:47:05 +1000 Reply-To: Michael Wyatt Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Books on disc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD83D4.3F4788C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tobiah R Waldron asked "What methods do you find helpful in indexing a = book that comes to you on disc?" Firstly, you have to know where the page breaks are, otherwise you = really can't even do the job, unless you're indexing to paragraph or = clause number. It's probably too late for your present job, but for your = future reference most dtp-ers can produce an Acrobat PDF file, which is = an exact screen reproduction of what the printed product will look like. = Ask your client if they can produce an Acrobat file for the book. (I = think PDF stands for "Portable Document Format".) You can download an = Acrobat reader for free from www.adobe.com If it's being emailed to you, you need to bear in mind that the files = can be rather big, so ask them to Zip it for you. If it is a big book, = it may be more convenient to have each chapter in a separate PDF file. = If there are many illustrations, ask them to set graphics "off" when = they are producing the Acrobat file. Once you've done that, you just open the document in Acrobat Reader, = print it out, and index it in the way you would any other set of proofs. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street Surry Hills NSW 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 Email keyword@ozemail.com.au ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD83D4.3F4788C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tobiah R Waldron asked "What = methods do you=20 find helpful in indexing a book that comes to you on = disc?"
 
Firstly, you have to know where the page breaks are, = otherwise=20 you really can't even do the job, unless you're indexing to paragraph or = clause=20 number. It's probably too late for your present job, but for your future = reference most dtp-ers can produce an Acrobat PDF file, which is an = exact screen=20 reproduction of what the printed product will look like. Ask your client = if they=20 can produce an Acrobat file for the book. (I think PDF stands for = "Portable=20 Document Format".) You can download an Acrobat reader for free from = www.adobe.com
 
If it's being emailed to you, you need to bear in = mind that=20 the files can be rather big, so ask them to Zip it for you. If it is a = big book,=20 it may be more convenient to have each chapter in a separate PDF file. = If there=20 are many illustrations, ask them to set graphics "off" when = they are=20 producing the Acrobat file.
 
Once you've done that, you just open the document in = Acrobat=20 Reader, print it out, and index it in the way you would any other set of = proofs.
 
Michael Wyatt
Keyword Editorial=20 Services
22 Kendall Street Surry Hills NSW 2010 Australia
Phone = 0500 539=20 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785
Email keyword@ozemail.com.au<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD83D4.3F4788C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 02:10:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: a few name questions Help! My encyclopedia has let me down. Is anyone up who can answer these question? 1. What is Korczak's first name? He was a sculptor who was asked by the Sioux to do a Mount-Rushmore-like statue of Crazy Horse, on his horse, somewhere in South Dakota (I think.) He is now dead, but his family is carrying on the work. (Reader's Digest did a profile of him a few months back, but I can't find the blasted thing.) 2. What is the proper way to index Korean names? The name is Khi Ahn, and the gentleman is Korean-American; I don't know if that makes a difference. Are Korean names inverted like English-language names? Or are they indexed as they appear, with no inversion? 3. When indexing Native American names, does the descriptor serve as the surname? And where is it preferable to put a title? Would Chief Henry Standing Bear be indexed as "Standing Bear, Chief Henry," "Standing Bear, Henry (Chief)", "Standing Bear, Henry"? Or none of the above? (If the latter, how should it be indexed?) Thanks very much in advance! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 06:04:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: a few name questions At 02:10 AM 5/20/98 -0400, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >Help! My encyclopedia has let me down. Is anyone up who can answer these >question? > >1. What is Korczak's first name? He was a sculptor who was asked by the >Sioux to do a Mount-Rushmore-like statue of Crazy Horse, on his horse, >somewhere in South Dakota (I think.) He is now dead, but his family is >carrying on the work. (Reader's Digest did a profile of him a few months >back, but I can't find the blasted thing.) Korczak is the first name; the last name is Ziolkowski. I found this on the Web in a news story about the Crazy Horse carving. > >2. What is the proper way to index Korean names? The name is Khi Ahn, and >the gentleman is Korean-American; I don't know if that makes a difference. >Are Korean names inverted like English-language names? Or are they indexed >as they appear, with no inversion? Korean names appear with the family name first, as in traditional Chinese names. If there is a Christian name involved, the name is written Western style (Park, Thomas K.) ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Freelance Indexer Bertelsen Indexing Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:10:44 +0100 Reply-To: Karin Woodruff Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karin Woodruff Subject: Client or Patient? I am currently indexing a well-written multi-author book on the ethical dilemmas involved in treating eating disorders. Some of the authors refer to eating disorder sufferers as clients, others as patients. While "client" is a more neutral/egalitarian (and possibly more politically correct term) the term "patient" is medically appropriate when referring to "someone who is ill and in need of treatment". As indexers we are trained to (1) reflect the text accurately, and (2) to bring together equivalent terms... What do I do when different authors refer to e.g. "the client's mother" or "the patient's mother"?? I would like to use a mix of both terms in the index, with entries like: death of patient friendship (client-therapist) sexual contact client/therapist mother of patient By doing this I feel I will more accurately reflect the overall use of "client" and "patient" in the text, even though there will still be times when I have imposed one term over another. Any comments?? TIA Karin -- Karin Woodruff, Indexer Leicester, UK. e-mail: woodruff@bison.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:45:21 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Periodicals For periodicals, I send the in-house editors proof copies of every 2 or 3 issues worth of entries, and I submit an invoice with each batch for work to date. For a while we had it set at $XXX per issue, with the last invoice adjusted to reflect total actual hours, but now I just submit actual hours as I go. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay K. Schlembach" Subject: Re: Indexing process Dear Dan C., Having just taught Basic Indexing at the conference in Seattle, I wanted to reiterate what I told my students. Finish the course, and realize that lesson 10 is TOUGH. It took me 3 months to manage it, andeven then I missed one of the main themes of the piece in the index. I never did get a structure to gel. Be that as it may, it has proved to be more like the actual challenges I face as an indexer than any other part of that course. Hang in there! You'll probably find that your marking/entering methods change asd you gain experience with different types of material. I still mark extensively on complex subjects, write notes in the margins and tend to over-index slightly. Good luck! Kay Schlembach ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:33:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SharonSims Subject: Re: Indexing process In a message dated 98-05-20 09:42:07 EDT, you write: > Having just taught Basic Indexing at the conference in Seattle, I wanted > to > reiterate what I told my students. Finish the course, and realize that > lesson 10 > is TOUGH. It took me 3 months to manage it, andeven then I missed one of > the > main > themes of the piece in the index. I never did get a structure to gel. Be > that as > it may, it has proved to be more like the actual challenges I face as an > indexer > than any other part of that course. Hang in there! > You'll probably find that your marking/entering methods change asd you gain > experience with different types of material. I still mark extensively on > complex > subjects, write notes in the margins and tend to over-index slightly. Good > luck! > > Kay Schlembach > Hi Kay, Don't know if you remember me, but I met & talked with you briefly at the spring workshop in Houston. I just received back my lesson 9 yesterday. Now it's time to get down to serious business! And I remember you saying how tough it was, but at the same time I find your words above encouraging. I needed that little extra "boost." It's wonderful having the benefit of you seasoned indexers to prod us & encourage us students & beginners! I have been reading through the assignment first. But now that I have received final instructions, my question is should I approach it as if I only have a week to complete? I know that's impossible because I'm super slow at this point but is that supposed to be the idea? Sharon Sims ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:57:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? I have a bottom-of-the-barrel Compaq Contura Aero laptop that I use only for "vacations" (translation: indexing while away from home). The hard drive crashed while I was in Seattle (and the battery won't recharge, either). I'm trying to decide whether to repair or replace. It's about 4 years old, and the Compaq repair folk want $40 just to look at it. Does anyone have an idea how much a new hard drive (it's a 486) would cost? I don't really need anything fancy, but then.... Perhaps it would be better to get something more up-to-date. It doesn't get really heavy use, but it will be dragged around a lot. Any suggestions gratefully appreciated. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:56:06 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512 Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? HI, New 486s are not easy to find. We found a used 486 at a local company that sells used computers (complete with 3 month guarantee) for $500. It has a color monitor, aand reasonable hard drive but no modem. We thought that the desk tops were coming down in price so fast that if we waited a year or so the laptops would follow. We use it for emergencies (like travel) and so far it's doing well. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:25:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? At 01:57 PM 5/20/1998 EDT, SCTopping wrote: >I have a bottom-of-the-barrel Compaq Contura Aero laptop that I use only for >"vacations" (translation: indexing while away from home). The hard drive >crashed while I was in Seattle (and the battery won't recharge, either). I'm >trying to decide whether to repair or replace. Generally, the speed with which new technology appears (and prices drop), it's not worthwhile to do any major repairs on an older computer. Laptops are still more expensive than desktop models, but the prices have dropped so much you should at least look at the bargain end of the range. You'll get nearly-new technology (a Pentium chip, probably at least 133 Hz speed, and so forth) and greater reliability than you would if you tried to replace or repair the original components of your desktop. My personal rule of thumb is...if it's going to cost more than around $200-$300 to fix or upgrade a system, it's time to look at a whole new one. I'm verging on that decision myself, since I desperately need a larger hard drive on my 2.5-year-old Pentium 133. I also could use more memory. Together, these items will set me back at least $300. For $1000, I could buy a Pentium 233 with a huge hard drive and a 56k modem and all the more modern technology. It just doesn't make sense to keep upgrading this otherwise very nice machine much longer. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:10:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCNDX Subject: Indexing by dropping tags in Microsoft Word file Hi: I'm fairly new to this list, but find it very enlightening. I've been asked to give an estimate on receiving the text to be indexed as a Word file and using Microsoft Word to index it. Has anybody done this who is used to working with CINDEX? I'd love to know if it is more or less time-consuming? Thanks. Anita Levy Space Coast Indexers 1101 S. Atlantic Avenue #401 Cocoa Beach FL 32931 407-536-8431 scndx@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 13:18:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Knoeller Subject: Re: Technical indexing reference Forgive me for bringing this up again, but someone mentioned a book published by Sun Microsystems that had an indexing module in it, and I CANNOT find the message though I could swear that I saved it. Does anyone have the citation for this book? Or at least the title or something to search on? Thanks AGAIN, Julie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:43:17 -0600 Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Art Elser Organization: U S WEST Communications Subject: Re: Indexing by dropping tags in Microsoft Word file Anita Levy wrote: >>I've been asked to give an estimate on receiving the text to be indexed as a Word file and using Microsoft Word to index it. Has anybody done this who is used to working with CINDEX? I'd love to know if it is more or less time-consuming?<< I haven't used CINDEX, but have indexed books using embedded tags in Word. I suspect that it's more time consuming to index in Word than in CINDEX. The indexing principles are obviously the same, but editing takes much longer because you have to go back into the text, unhide the tags, and edit them manually. When you unhide the tags, the text expands making finding the index tag again sometimes difficult. (I find that if I put the cursor in the phrase I'm looking for before I unhide the tags, I can find the tags easier. After you unhide the tags, you'll discover that you are no longer on the page you started on. The cursor, however, has moved out of sight also. If you now hit the space bar, the cursor, which is somewhere off screen, will jump back on screen with the text around it. Then delete the space you just entered and edit the tag.) In CINDEX or other stand-alone indexing systems, the index entries are generated as you enter them. You can see your index entries as you go along, correcting minor items like plurals and deviant spellings. In Word, you have to generate the index after entering the tags to see what the final index entries look like. One helpful technique someone passed on to me is to generate the index after you finish each chapter. That way, you can see your mistakes as you go along. You can create a style sheet as you go along to keep yourself using the same terminology. I think the inefficiencies of hidden tags and not having the index generated as you move through the text are the major reasons for indexing taking a bit longer using embedded tags. -- ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 17:55:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Snedrow Subject: Re: Technical indexing reference Hi Julie, The bibliographic information on that book is as follows: Read Me First: A Style Guide for the Computer Industry, by Sun Technical Publications, published 1996 by Prentice Hall (http://www.prenhall.com), ISBN 0-13-455347-0. Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:30:47 -0400 Reply-To: db2264@server1.rscs.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Community Services Organization: City of Dover Subject: Re: Technical indexing reference The title is "Read me first!: A style guide for the computer industry." ISBN 0134553470; lists for $29.95, Amazon.com price is $23.96 (if you're interested) I just ordered it from a local bookstore, haven't done online shopping, yet! Dorothy Berthiaume Julie Knoeller wrote: > Forgive me for bringing this up again, but someone mentioned a book > published by Sun Microsystems that had an indexing module in it, and I > > CANNOT find the message though I could swear that I saved it. > > Does anyone have the citation for this book? Or at least the title or > something to search on? > > Thanks AGAIN, > > Julie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:27:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Back in the saddle again... Well - what a conference! It was so good to meet folks whose names I recognized - and to meet folks whose names I did not know from the List. I'm just sorry I didn't have a chance to say hey to every one of you who were there. And here come the questions again: 1. The book has footnotes in numerical order beginning anew in each chapter. The discussion of X is on page 158, and a footnote with further information is also on page 158. I am indexing them as notes (158n17), but since they are on the same page as the main discussion, do I need to really do this? What would I do without you enthusiastic, generous people? Martha Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing index@teleport.com www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:10:24 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nmbenton Subject: Re: Back in the saddle again... In a message dated 98-05-20 19:43:28 EDT, you write: << 1. The book has footnotes in numerical order beginning anew in each chapter. The discussion of X is on page 158, and a footnote with further information is also on page 158. I am indexing them as notes (158n17), but since they are on the same page as the main discussion, do I need to really do this? >> I would definately include it anyway, as long as it is substantive! As an indexer I like to keep to form and as a reader, even with a reference right before my eyes, I might miss it. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:30:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Duell Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? On the other hand, there's the upgrade a little at a time method. In the last 9 months, I've upgraded to a fast new motherboard, added a giant hard drive, more memory, a new modem, and only spent $600, in chunks, rather than all at once. Michele Duell mduell@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:48:24 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peakae Subject: Re: Indexing process Sorry, just starting lurking...what course are you talking about? Any info? Thanks in advance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:50:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Back in the saddle again... At 03:27 PM 5/20/1998 -0700, Martha Osgood wrote: >1. The book has footnotes in numerical order beginning anew in each >chapter. The discussion of X is on page 158, and a footnote with further >information is also on page 158. I am indexing them as notes (158n17), but >since they are on the same page as the main discussion, do I need to really >do this? Yep, I'd do it...so long as you have the space in the index. I'm always in favor of the greatest level of detail that is practical and useful, and readers will not always catch a related footnote unless it is specifically pointed out. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 19:03:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Japanese name question Help! Sen no Rikyu (1522-1591) How to place in index? I know the rules as explicated in CMS -- is this an exception or should it be entered as is? In other words, is "Sen no" an honorific or part of the name, and what to do with it? Thanks very much. Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:42:30 -0700 Reply-To: "vbirchfield@kalesis.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vicki Birchfield Organization: Kalesis Systems Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? http://www.compaq.com/support/techpubs/customer_advisories/8150.html has info on Compaq Aero battery not holding a charge. If you can put a standard IDE drive in your notebook, you should be able to get a drive for about $100 per gigabyte. For used notebooks, check out http:www.micronpc.com. Go to their refurbished notebooks section. It changes frequently, but right now they have a fully warrantied (same as new) refurbished 166Mhz Pentium with MMX, 56K modem, 20X CD, 2.1 GB drive, and 40MB RAM for $1589. I wish I could justify buying one right now, but I can't. :-( For non-notebooks, my style is different than Sonsie's. I tend to replace parts and make machines last until they beg to be put out of their misery. Then they do organ donations to other machines. I have several ugly but useful Frankensteins around the house. If I had a 2.5 year old Pentium 133 and were using it primarily for indexing, I wouldn't care much about upgrading to a P233. You just aren't using the computing power of the CPU. Perceived computer speed for this kind of work is more dependent on whether you have enough RAM and disk space. So for $300 or $400, you could add more memory, more disk space AND the 56K modem, and you'd have kept that extra $600 you'd spend for the P233 in your pocket (or use it to buy other cool toys like scanners or a laser printers, or as funds to attend to the next great ASI conference). That said, once I do decide I need a new machine, I go for a state-of-the-art, techno-loaded speed demon. I still do a lot of programming, and I need the power just to run the darn tools I need to do my job. The way I decide whether I need a new machine is simple: if the software I use to make my living runs too slow on my machine and I can't do something to make it better, then I get a new machine (or a new motherboard). Not before. And I get the latest fastest chip sets, because then my hardware is not obsolete for at least two or three weeks. This approach saves me from always chasing the lastest technology (even though I always want it), and ensures that it's a reasonable business expense. I try to get at least 4-5 years out of a system, but I don't mind upgrading drives and such at a faster rate. But if I had an older 486, then yes, I'd get a new machine or motherboard, just because Win95/NT pretty much demand a Pentium. Yeah, I know they say it'll run on a 486, but it's just too darn slow unless you're a saint and have all of eternity to boot up. My advice, if you want something that will do well for at least a few years: don't get a Pentium for a desktop system, get a Pentium II. Pentiums are going the way of 486's. Hope this helps. Sorry it's long. But I feel strongly about resisting the Win-Tel pressure to buy more hardware. I don't think it's a coincidence that every new product out of Microsoft requires more memory, more speed, and faster CPUs. I just doesn't have to be that way. (Uh oh, going public with strong opinions.) Vicki Birchfield Kalesis Systems Phone: 206-524-2026 Fax: 206-524-3044 vbirchfield@kalesis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:53:04 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexserv Subject: Re: Japanese name question In a message dated 5/21/98 2:03:26 AM, you wrote: <> I'm working on a similar title...any help, please post to list. Thanks! Tim Indexserv ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:42:01 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Henderson Subject: Re: Japanese name question I'm not an expert in Japanese, but I've checked this name in our Asian language database. Sen no Rikyu, a Japanese "tea master", is invariably listed in the subject field as Sen, Rikyu (followed, as is usual in library catalogues, by birth/death dates - in this case it is given as "1521 or 2-1591", so date of birth is somewhat uncertain it seems). This form of name (Sen, Rikyu) is used as the name heading in records we've obtained from the US Library of Congress as well as in those from the national library in Japan (National Diet Library). It would seem the "no" is not really part of the name (it is commonly used in Japanese to join two nouns). Hope this helps Sandra Henderson Manager Australian National CJK Service National Library of Australia shenders@nla.gov.au > ---------- > From: Indexserv[SMTP:Indexserv@AOL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 1998 3:53 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Japanese name question > > In a message dated 5/21/98 2:03:26 AM, you wrote: > > < > How to place in index? > > I know the rules as explicated in CMS -- is this an exception or should it > be entered as is? In other words, is "Sen no" an honorific or part of the > name, and what to do with it?>> > > I'm working on a similar title...any help, please post to list. > > Thanks! > Tim > Indexserv > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:58:30 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Multi-authored works This follows on from a recent discussion regarding index entries for the authors of each chapter in a multi-authored work. I am never sure whether this is really necessary, as it is clear who has written what from the Table of Contents. But, for reasons too complicated to explain now, in the current book I am putting them in. Anyway, my query is what do the rest of you do about the page range of the chapter when after the main text there are several pages of notes, followed by several pages of references? Do you include the whole thing in the page range, or just the main text, or the text plus notes (technically this is what has actually been written by the author). This is something I change my mind about constantly, and have never felt really happy about. I look forward to hearing what other people do. Margaret Binns ============================ Margaret Binns Indexer 20 Hangleton Manor Close Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK Tel: 01273 420844 binns@hangleton.u-net.com ============================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 06:11:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Mulvany Subject: The Indexer: Postal Problem Follow-up Copies of the delayed Oct Indexer (discussed on Index-L in April), were mailed out six weeks ago. UK indexers received their copies over a month ago, and we understand some Canadian readers have recently received theirs, but it seems they are slowly arriving in Australia and the US. Nancy Mulvany and Janet Shuter (Indexer editors) are trying to monitor the situation to make sure it doesn't happen again. We should be grateful if readers outside the UK/ Europe would email Nancy to let us know when they receive their copies. Please send an email message to nmulvany@well.com It would be very helpful if you used the following format in the subject line of your message: Subject: Indexer: your city, state/province, country For example, Subject: Indexer: Northamptom, MA, US Thanks for your help with this. -nancy Nancy Mulvany Associate Editor, The Indexer Voice: 510-524-4195 Fax: 510-527-4681 Email: nmulvany@well.com Reference Books for Indexers ====> http://www.well.com/~nmulvany ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 06:21:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Multi-authored works In-Reply-To: <199805211106.EAA26244@powergrid.electriciti.com> When giving a page spread for the chapter subject, I include all pages, except for references. When it's an entry for the chapter author, I enter all pages of all material. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:36:21 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SCTopping Subject: Re: Back in the saddle again... Martha: Usually, it's 158, 158n -- the reader should be able to match the footnote numbers. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 09:41:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Re: Indexing process In-Reply-To: <199805210134.VAA07641@ kis.net> I have a question I think is related to this thread. Has anybody seen "Unit B: Choice and Form of Entries" by Pat F. Booth and Mary Piggott? It is advertised on the back of The Indexer (assuming you have received your copy of the Indexer, of course). Since it is fairly expensive, it would not be a casual purchase for me; so I was wondering if it is a good value, whether the same material can be found in a less expensive resource, etc. Is someone willing to do a review? Thanks, Barbara Mullinix Beeline Index Writing Service Emmitsburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:40:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kay K. Schlembach" Subject: Re: Indexing process Hi Sharon, Nice to hear from you. If I had done it as if it were a "real index," I think I would have killed myself. I found it extremely difficult. I worked on marking it and attempting to develop a structure for 3 months. The actual entering/editing took me 18 hours before I stopped and sent it in. My advice is to take your time, don't beat yourself up, and send it in when you feel ready. Good luck! Kay SharonSims wrote: > In a message dated 98-05-20 09:42:07 EDT, you write: > > > Having just taught Basic Indexing at the conference in Seattle, I wanted > > to > > reiterate what I told my students. Finish the course, and realize that > > lesson 10 > > is TOUGH. It took me 3 months to manage it, andeven then I missed one of > > the > > main > > themes of the piece in the index. I never did get a structure to gel. Be > > that as > > it may, it has proved to be more like the actual challenges I face as an > > indexer > > than any other part of that course. Hang in there! > > You'll probably find that your marking/entering methods change asd you gain > > experience with different types of material. I still mark extensively on > > complex > > subjects, write notes in the margins and tend to over-index slightly. Good > > luck! > > > > Kay Schlembach > > > Hi Kay, > > Don't know if you remember me, but I met & talked with you briefly at the > spring workshop in Houston. I just received back my lesson 9 yesterday. Now > it's time to get down to serious business! And I remember you saying how > tough it was, but at the same time I find your words above encouraging. I > needed that little extra "boost." It's wonderful having the benefit of you > seasoned indexers to prod us & encourage us students & beginners! > > I have been reading through the assignment first. But now that I have > received final instructions, my question is should I approach it as if I only > have a week to complete? I know that's impossible because I'm super slow at > this point but is that supposed to be the idea? > > Sharon Sims ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:03:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: James Anderson Subject: : Indexer: New Brunswick, NJ, USA In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 21 May 1998 06:11:55 -0700 Hi, Nancy -- I got my INDEXER a couple of days ago. Jim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:04:38 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Subject: Re: deceased laptop: repair or replace? In a message dated 98-05-20 21:25:24 EDT, you write: > On the other hand, there's the upgrade a little at a time method. In the > last 9 months, I've upgraded to a fast new motherboard, added a giant hard > drive, more memory, a new modem, and only spent $600, in chunks, rather > than all at once. While it's true that desktop machines can be upgraded very inexpensively (e.g., 32mb memory for less than $100), the same is NOT true for notebooks. I have a 2-1/2 year old Texas Instruments 486/75 with 8 mb ram, a 450mb hard drive, and no CD; it was an "orphan" before I paid it off, as I learned to my dismay when I recently decided to upgrade it to 16 mb and add an external CD. Turns out that (1) it's too slow to support the CD, and (2) the ram will cost $900!. Which is why it did NOT get upgraded, since new notebooks with CDs, 32mb ram, and Pentium II processors are now available for $1200 or less. In its current state, my "orphan" works fine with Windows95, Cindex for Windows, Word, Excel, and communications (but not Web browsing). And since its primary function is to let me index away from home and serve as a backup for the desktop machine, I can't justify an upgrade at this point. If and when I can't live without Web browsing or PowerPoint on the notebook (which both need the extra ram) , I'll consider a new notebook; but until then... Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:10:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: : Indexer: New Brunswick, NJ, USA In-Reply-To: <199805211402.KAA05057@library.lib.binghamton.edu> A reminder: Please send messages regarding the receipt of the Indexer directly to Nancy Mulvany nmulvany@WELL.COM, not to index-l. Thanks Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator On Thu, 21 May 1998, James Anderson wrote: > Hi, Nancy -- I got my INDEXER a couple of days ago. Jim > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 08:13:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: Back in the saddle again... In-Reply-To: <199805211338.GAA17583@smtp1.teleport.com> Sandy wrote >Usually, it's 158, 158n -- the reader should be able to match the footnote >numbers. >Sandy You're right, Sandy. I think I knew that...once...not long ago... Senility is such a burden. Martha Back Words ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Multi-authored works Margaret, I have not so far put authors in the index for any of their work in the present volume. If they are cited for other work outside the present book, they'll go in the index for that, but not for work inside the book, just as I wouldn't index a single author's name either. In this case, I think the author names are used to let the research world know what colleagues were cited, and the authors of the present volume are clearly given elsewhere than in the index. (I personally find the whole practice of putting researchers in the index to be a waste of time and space for the most part, in that it doesn't lead to substantive information in the text). If anyone would like to present a friendly challenge to my view, you are welcome to! :-) Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:23:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marea & Jim Tumber Subject: Re: Indexing process If I remember correctly, the bid for lesson #10 was approx. $150. Kay wrote that she spent 18 hours on it- perhaps that $8 per hour is meant to discourage all of us new indexers. I spent WAY too much time on it- I hate to think of my total hours- probably 50!!! YIKES!! The good news was that everyone else thought it was hard too. And I was pleased with my final result, even though I earned less than $3 an hour... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:50:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Multi-authored works Joanne E. Clendenen wrote: >>(I personally find the whole practice of putting researchers in the index to be a waste of time and space for the most part, in that it doesn't lead to substantive information in the text). If anyone would like to present a friendly challenge to my view, you are welcome to! :-)<< I seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere (perhaps even here on Index-L) that some professors choose their textbooks based on whether they are quoted or discussed in a given book. If true, I suppose one could argue that including researchers may increase sales. :-) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:36:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re[2]: Multi-authored works Joanne E. Clendenen wrote: >>(I personally find the whole practice of putting researchers in the index to be a waste of time and space for the most part, in that it doesn't lead to substantive information in the text). If anyone would like to present a friendly challenge to my view, you are welcome to! :-)<< There may be times when a reader has heard the researchers mentioned at either a trade show or conference, and is looking for more information about their work. Erika Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:48:43 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Subject: Re: Back in the saddle again... Martha Osgood wrote: >1. The book has footnotes in numerical order beginning anew in each >chapter. The discussion of X is on page 158, and a footnote with further >information is also on page 158. I am indexing them as notes (158n17), but >since they are on the same page as the main discussion, do I need to really >do this? >> Sandy wrote: Actually, in the scholarly books that I do (what field is this book in, Martha?) the publishers usually (actually, always) want endnote numbers specified. In fact, this is rarely a decision I get to make myself! I think if they ever left it to me I would go ahead and specify--a note page is usually much denser than the text and it gives the reader a little extra help. Tradeoff: the index looks a little messier. But maybe I would be inclined to do this because I'm so used to it! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:00:54 -0700 Reply-To: jthomas3@csulb.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library Subject: Re: Multi-authored works Kara said: > some professors choose their textbooks based on whether they > are quoted or discussed in a given book. And some choose based on whether *other* known researchers are quoted. Knowing that Drs. X and Z are the experts in the field, they will wonder about the merit of a textbook that doesn't include them. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:14:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: footnotes; endnotes At 12:48 PM 5/21/98 EDT, Do Mi wrote: >Martha Osgood wrote: > > >1. The book has footnotes in numerical order beginning anew in each > >chapter. The discussion of X is on page 158, and a footnote with further > >information is also on page 158. I am indexing them as notes (158n17), but > >since they are on the same page as the main discussion, do I need to really > >do this? >> > >Sandy wrote: >>Usually, it's 158, 158n -- the reader should be able to match the footnote >>numbers. > >Actually, in the scholarly books that I do (what field is this book in, >Martha?) the publishers usually (actually, always) want endnote numbers >specified. In fact, this is rarely a decision I get to make myself! I think if >they ever left it to me I would go ahead and specify--a note page is usually >much denser than the text and it gives the reader a little extra help. >Tradeoff: the index looks a little messier. But maybe I would be inclined to >do this because I'm so used to it! > Concerning endnotes, I concur with Do Mi; and concerning footnotes, when it's up to me if notes are numerous I include the numbers and if notes are few I don't. Michael