From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Thu Dec 24 18:10:19 1998
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:46:01 +0000
From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB <LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu>
To: Ilana Kingsley <inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu>
Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9811B"

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:46:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: company names as examples (addendum)

Sandy wrote:

> Another reason for including them (perhaps coded for later removal, if
> necessary) is that a company given a 2-line mention on page 103 may have
a
> 2-page discussion on page 703, making you want to go back and find those
> forgotten 2 lines.
>
> It's always easier to cut hair than to grow it.

I've taken to adding codes to some of my entries like this, making it
easier to eliminate them at the end if there isn't room to include all
those fairly minor (one or two lines) examples or mentions.  I use the same
few standard codes on each index, and I can either do a group and remove
either the codes or the whole group of entries, or sort through and check
each one for inclusion.  In Sandy's example above, this would result in two
entries (I've added a third for Company B to extend the example.)

        Company A, 703-704
        Company A <m>, 103

        Company B <m>, 22

When editing the index, I would combine the two entries for Company A and
remove the <m> code (it stands for "minor." I use other codes for
"sort-of-minor" and for "example in a list.")  Company B would either stay
in, with its code removed, or get pulled out, depending on publisher
preference, space, and all the other considerations Do Mi, Sandy, and
others have advanced.

While entering relatively minor examples like this may increase my typing
time, I find that the time and effort is often offset by the time it takes
to look back through several chapters (or more) for a two-line mention.  Of
course, YMMV, and I do find that this is not useful or helpful tactic for
some indexes.

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net

Wordsmith Indexing Services
8112 Harrison Dr.
King George, VA 22485
(540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:59:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ilana Kingsley <inewby@BERYL.ILS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Yugoslavia

Just to kill this topic a little more...

The encyclopedia I'm indexing refers to the the present day Yugoslavia as

the Yugoslav Federation, which includes "the two constituent
republics of Serbia and Montenegro."


--Ilana



On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Christine Headley wrote:

>>From Christine Headley
>> Are the constituent parts of the erstwhile
>> Yugoslavia, former Republics,
>> Former Republics, Republics, or a mixture?  The au has the latter and I
>> don't know whether to go for consistency in the index.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:21:06 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Robert " <>
Subject:      Computer terms

To Everybody:

    Within the last few weeks, someone listed a great web site to go to
for computer and computer technology terms.  Does anyone remember what
that site address was?  Thanks.

    Rob
    
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:57:20 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: An accolade
In-Reply-To:  <199811061605.LAA05847@camel16.mindspring.com>

At 08:06 AM 11/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I just want to take this opportunity to say that I think that Lynn Moncrief
>is one classy lady.

You're just now finding that out?

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:28:09 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael C. Rossa" <rossa@FLASH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Computer terms
In-Reply-To:  <199811081920.NAA20892@deimos.flash.net>

At 01:21 PM 11/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>To Everybody:
>
>    Within the last few weeks, someone listed a great web site to go to
>for computer and computer technology terms.  Does anyone remember what
>that site address was?  Thanks.
>
>    Rob
>    

Rob,

I think you are referring to the PC Webopaedia at

<http://webopedia.internet.com/>

Mike
****************
 Michael C. Rossa
 Allied Editorial
 972-267-2537
 972-267-2538 fax
 rossa@flash.net
****************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:33:33 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Mary Mortensen <MaryMort@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Concordance to Joyce (fictional)

Did anyone else hear "Prairie Home Companion" on public radio (in the U.S.)
this weekend?  In the 'News from Lake Wobegon', Garrison Keillor talked about
a Lake Wobegon native who moved away (to NY I think - please forgive me if
I've forgotten some of the details) and became obsessed with making a
concordance to Joyce's _Ulysses_.  Keillor referred to it as an index once,
but usually as a concordance, explaining that every word, even "the" and "a"
were in it.  This man worked for years, on index cards, in the evenings after
his legal proofreading job.

Then one day, scholars discovered the lost "Minnesota passage" that should
have been on page 5 of _Ulysses_.  (For those of you not familiar with this
radio program, it is broadcast from St. Paul, Minnesota, and Lake Wobegon is a
fictional small town in Minn.)   In this passage, Bloom has a map of St. Paul
and muses on the street names (particularly those named for flowers).

Of course, the insertion of this passage means that the pagination of the rest
of the book changes, and this man's concordance needs to be redone.  The
implication was that he died soon after, his life work unfinished.

The frustration was easy for me to identify with, especially as I'm currently
dealing with a chapter received with 5 inches of repeated text.  Feel free to
add more details if you heard this.  I'm wondering where this came from, as
Keillor's plot complications are sometimes related to events in his life.
Guess I'll have to check the rec.arts.wobegon newsgroup to see if anyone there
is discussing this monologue :-)

Cheers,
Mary
--
*  Mary Mortensen                              *  marymort@aol.com
*  Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:42:28 +1100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne <Diagonal@BIGPOND.COM>
Subject:      Indexing encyclopaedias
In-Reply-To:  <05023944799777@domain1.bigpond.com>

Ilana -

I would say that the only sort of index that has any value in this case is
one that a) doesn't list the cities and b) doesn't list the information
which recurs under each city heading, because all of that can be found by
the reader very easily. That leaves significant people, significant places
in and around cities, significant events, etc. Perhaps you could tie these
back to the content by including the city name in parentheses: e.g.

Batman, John (Melbourne) 196
British Museum (London) 146
Carnivale (Rio de Janeiro) 221
Gay Mardi Gras (Sydney) 236
Mardi Gras (New Orleans) 165
Phillip, Arthur (Sydney) 235
Sentosa Island (Singapore) 220

Of course, you have to convince the publisher that this is what he/she
wants... ;-)

Jonathan
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:42:25 +1100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne <Diagonal@BIGPOND.COM>
Subject:      Automatic indexing, marketing hype
In-Reply-To:  <05031822720490@domain1.bigpond.com>

> From:    "Daniel A. Connolly" <connolly@NECA.COM>
>
> Let me quote a few relevant passages:
>
> "...the software has enough data--including
> vocabulary,
> grammar and world knowledge--to interpret Time magazine."
>
> "Radical? You bet, because the program is the closest thing to artificial
> intelligence, or AI, on the market."
>
> "InQuizit is unusueal because it actually analyzes language according to
> linguistic principles. From a linguistic standpoint, it is the most
> sophisticated program of its kind. The other programs try
> engineering tricks,
> but they don't draw on what we know about the structure of human
> language."

This is the same sort of rhetoric that was used for Indexicon (new arrivals
can find Glenda's review of this now-defunct 'automatic indexing' software
at http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/resources/conferencepapers/browneg.htm). I
don't think we should judge it before we see it in action, but I agree that
the augurs are not auspicious.

Jonathan
------------------------------
Jonathan Jermey
Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers
http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:15:07 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pam Rider <prider@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject:      Perhaps Not So Shocking

The bestseller book _The Professor and the Madman_, the story of the
collaboration between the original OED compiler and a volunteer contributor
who was in a British insane asylum has just been the subject of an author
interview on C-Span's "Booknotes."

The contributor had a library in a portion of his cell accommodations. A
major aspect of his work was indexing words in his collection and providing
the OED with page numbers of where words (dog was an example in the
interview) were employed in typical and illustrative ways. Further evidence
of the value of indexing.

What it might say about those who index is another matter.

Those here all appear pretty stable, but, at times, in the middle of an
especially hoary project, I do wonder a bit about myself.

And I apologize. The book has been at the top of the British sales lists
under a title I have forgotten.


Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:14:25 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking

Pam Rider wrote:

<The bestseller book _The Professor and the Madman_, the story of the
collaboration between the original OED compiler and a volunteer contributor
who was in a British insane asylum has just been the subject of an author
interview on C-Span's "Booknotes."

<The contributor had a library in a portion of his cell accommodations. A
major aspect of his work was indexing words in his collection and providing
the OED with page numbers of where words (dog was an example in the
interview) were employed in typical and illustrative ways. Further evidence
of the value of indexing.

<What it might say about those who index is another matter.

<Those here all appear pretty stable, but, at times, in the middle of an
especially hoary project, I do wonder a bit about myself.

<And I apologize. The book has been at the top of the British sales lists
under a title I have forgotten.

Pam, the book is by Simon Winchester and is entitled in the UK The Surgeon
of Crowthorne: A Tale of Murder, Madness and the Love of Words. I bought it,
read it, thoroughly enjoyed it and then wrote to the publishers (Viking) to
complain that this book, unbelievably, has no index. There are several blank
pages at the back which could have been used for this purpose. So far I have
had no reply.

Christine

****************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB, UK
e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk
****************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:43:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "William G. Meisheid" <wgm@SAGELINE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Automatic indexing, marketing hype

>I don't think we should judge it before we see it in action, but I agree that
the augurs are not auspicious.


Jonathan,

When considering online access it is true that a natural language query
processes will help many people where full text search has failed them. However,
there is one thing it can never replace due to the need for the user to
formulate a question, the browsability of an index. Don't underestimate the
value of codified information versus self generated queries.

________________________________________________
William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress"
WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP
Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training
Sageline Publishing  410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812
http://www.sageline.com      wgm@sageline.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:50:07 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: An accolade
In-Reply-To:  <199811081956.LAA02103@mail-gw6.pacbell.net>

At 14:57 11/8/98 -0500, Dick wrote:
>At 08:06 AM 11/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>I just want to take this opportunity to say that I think that Lynn Moncrief
>>is one classy lady.
>
>You're just now finding that out?
>
>Dick

Oh, now I'm blushing so hard between you and Toni, I can hardly type! ;-D
Thanks!

Lynn

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:08:10 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Beginner rates, revisited
In-Reply-To:  <199811072311.PAA06435@mail-gw.pacbell.net>

At 17:08 11/7/98 -0600, you wrote:
>HI Lynn,
>
>    Thanks for your response!  I didn't lose (too much :D) sleep over the
>issue!  I also appreciate the networking advice - I think the people in
>my chapter are interested in this, but we're a little handicapped by
>geography - we're fairly spread out.
>
>    I also appreciate the negotiating advice from you and others.  I
>notice that the more dead end phone calls I make the more brash I get
>(though still working on it!) - now I ask for ball park rates before I
>send a follow-up letter,

Hi Susan,

LOL! Desperation is what made me so brash. ;-D (I was down to $2000 in
savings with no income when I started out, so I was reallllly desperate.)

and I'm starting to ask how publishers who say
>they don't use indexers manage to get indexes done (one answer - the
>editors do them - another explanation for sub par indexes) in the hopes I
>might convince them to give a professional a chance.

I hope this works! It's a shame that publishers don't usually get feedback
from readers on the lack of index quality (though acquisitions librarians
are loath to buy a book without a good index from what I've heard).

  I do engineering
>and scientific indexes (I noticed in your signature block that that's
>what you do) and it helps to know what I should be getting - you, and
>others, have shown me that a better rate is not an absurd thing to
>require.

Being that you do engineering and scientific indexes, have you considered
marketing to high-tech companies (to their technical documentation
departments)? They pay better than traditional publishers. Some high-tech
companies contract their documentation out to third-party firms that
specialize in technical documentation (I used to work for one as a tech
writer). So, these companies are also a potential source of work. I say
that based on experience with having done indexing for these kinds of
clients as well. Be forewarned though that, if you go into indexing product
manuals, you're likely to be asked to do embedded indexing.
>
>   You've probably "been there, done that," but, here's the number for
>Microsoft's Windows 98 technical support line: (425) 635-7222.  (Of
>course, it's not toll free - how else would Bill Gates build his high
>tech mansion!)

Thanks for the tech support number!!! I haven't called Microsoft for Win98
(which I think they only support for three months from purchase without a
charge for tech support), but I've called them for other products in the
past. You're on hold for so long that they actually have their own DJ
playing their "music-on-hold". I once made the mistake of calling them on
the same day I had a flight to Italy. Almost missed my plane. ;-D But, I'll
consider that the next time I'm tempted to type in "FORMAT: C".

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:40:19 +0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <hartwigj@[207.250.15.7]>
From:         John Hartwig <hartwigj@WLS.WELS.NET>
Subject:      Business name

What might be the advantages/disadvantages or legal implications to
using your own name (e.g. John Hartwig) vs a business name (e.g Ace
Indexing) for your indexing/editing work?

John Hartwig
hartwigj@wls.wels.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:16:19 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Business name
In-Reply-To:  <199811091505.KAA04133@mail3.bellsouth.net>

Most places, if you use your own name as your business name, there's no need
to register a DBA with the county -- since no one else can do business
*under your name* without your permission anyway. Professionally, it
depends: I have no objection to the sometimes cutesy names that folks come
up with, but I prefer to keep my own business name businesslike...

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of John Hartwig
|Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 2:40 AM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Business name
|
|
|What might be the advantages/disadvantages or legal implications to
|using your own name (e.g. John Hartwig) vs a business name (e.g Ace
|Indexing) for your indexing/editing work?
|
|John Hartwig
|hartwigj@wls.wels.net
|
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:23:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Y2K Compliance

My thanks to all who answered my query about testing my PCs. I haven't yet
done the testing, but I have your messages on hand for when I find time to
do it (sometime _before_ December 31, 1999, I hope!)

I may have something further to share after Nov. 30 -- my branch of the EAC
is hosting a panel discussion called "Is the Sky Really Falling? Y2K Reality
Check". The panelists sound knowledgeable, so if I hear anything useful,
I'll pass it on.

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:57:58 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Y2K Compliance

What is the EAC?  And is this near the Washington DC area?

M. Jessie Barczak
Research Analyst
Powell Tate Washington
202-434-8533
jbarczak@washington.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kate Welsh [SMTP:kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET]
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 3:24 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Y2K Compliance
>
> My thanks to all who answered my query about testing my PCs. I haven't yet
> done the testing, but I have your messages on hand for when I find time to
> do it (sometime _before_ December 31, 1999, I hope!)
>
> I may have something further to share after Nov. 30 -- my branch of the
> EAC
> is hosting a panel discussion called "Is the Sky Really Falling? Y2K
> Reality
> Check". The panelists sound knowledgeable, so if I hear anything useful,
> I'll pass it on.
>
> Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:03:25 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sarah Smith <indexer@SAMPO.CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject:      Hebrew

This may be a long shot, but if anyone out there has a working knowledge
of Hebrew, modern or ancient, please offlist me.  I just need a couple of
words translated correctly.

This is for a personal purpose, not indexing-related, so no huge rush.

Thanks!  Again, please respond OFFLIST to indexer@sampo.creighton.edu.

-- Sarah Smith
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:08:32 MST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nancy McElroy <mcelroy.nancy@USA.NET>
Subject:      unsubscribe

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:32:46 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Margie Towery <MTOWERY@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Y2K Compliance

I, too, have appreciated the postings on Y2K. And I look forward to hearing
any goodies from Kate's panel on it.

It's an issue that has intrigued me because of people's reaction to it. There
are some folks out there who are talking about selling everything here and
moving to a country that doesn't depend on computers so much. It seems to have
become embroiled in many of the fears that surround ends of milleniums.

Margie Towery
Towery Indexing Service
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:17:16 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karin Arrigoni <karrigoni@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Sorting the same index in different ways in CINDEX?

Hi All,

I was wondering if there is any way that I can create one document in
CINDEX that can be sorted in two different ways.

What I'm trying to do is to create one regular back-of-the-book index,
and also another index-like document that sorts the courses by part
number and that contains several columns containing additional
information.  For example:

Part No.  Course Title                     Media Type       Page Number

15853     TCP/IP Fundamentals              Lecture/Lab      108
18857     Data Communications Concepts     ISP              125
20003     UNIX Basics                      CBT              101

I don't know if it's possible, but I was hoping to create both indexes in
one document (for easier maintenance when the document is updated, which
is yearly) and change the sort order by the use of hidden text or some
other way.  I checked the manual and didn't see anything that indicated
that you could toggle hidden text on and off.

Is it possible to do this in one document, or should I not even attempt
it and just copy the regular CINDEX index and add the extra columns to
that index?  To create the columns, I was thinking of adding an unusual
character (like $ or *) to designate the column break within the entry.
Then after saving the document into Word, I would do a search and replace
to change the characters to tabs.  Has anyone attempted this sort of
thing before?  Does it work?

Thanks for any advice!

Karin

P.S.  I would appreciate being cc'd directly (karrigoni@earthlink.net) in
any replies as I get the messages in index form, and I really could use
any advice today since I'm working on the project now.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:20:37 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ted Cole <TedC877022@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe

You may leave  the list at any  time by sending a "SIGNOFF  INDEX-L" command
(to
LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET
or
LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:26:22 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Business name

John,
I'll tell you how I decided, but differences in the law and tax code where
you are may make a difference. So...

Incorporation? It gives you limited liability, because creditors (including
people you've done business with who've successfully sued you) can only take
assets of your corporation, not your personal assets (e.g., your house and
car). But I quickly decided against this, because in my work I'm unlikely to
incur much liability ("liability" includes debt, BTW). Also, filing
incorporation documents and annual reporting to the government is a bother
and an expense. Further, the limited liability is often an illusion, because
if you borrow much money, the creditor is likely to required your personal
guarantee for the debt.

Proprietorship with a trade name ("doing business as" name)? No limited
liability, but pretty much  the same tax benefits as incorporation (at
least, in my situation, in Canada). There's some expense associated with
doing a name search to ensure that no one else has taken that name, and then
registering it. But I decided against a trade name because I'm working with
a fairly small community (legal publishers, post-secondary institutions, and
the provincial government) where I already have some name recognition. You
may want a business name if you're dealing with a broader base of potential
clients, and need to stand out from the crowd of potential competitors.

So, I do business as "just me". I'm home-based, and I rigorously claim all
tax deductions related to business use of home, and all the general business
ones as well. (The latter can include any expense incurred in the course of
business or to invest in your business.)

Like Michael, I could use a name that adds on a descriptor of what I do, but
I haven't thought of anything catchy and concise enough. (You can see that
by my sig-line, below!)

If _you_ think of a good business name, John, I hope you'll let us know what
it is!

Kate

Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies


-----Original Message-----

Subject: Business name

What might be the advantages/disadvantages or legal implications to
using your own name (e.g. John Hartwig) vs a business name (e.g Ace
Indexing) for your indexing/editing work?

John Hartwig
hartwigj@wls.wels.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:58:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: New verb

Sarah Smith wrote

<snip> please offlist me.

How concise! This sort of construction is anathema to purists, but to me it
demonstrates the amazing vitality of English and its responsiveness to new
situations. I might not want to see this verb in formal writing, but it
seems perfectly appropriate to a listserv.

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:04:41 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: EAC & Y2K

M. Jessie Barczak wrote:
What is the EAC?  And is this near the Washington DC area?

Sorry to be obscure. The EAC is the Editors' Association of Canada. I belong
to the Prairie Provinces Branch, and will be attending the panel discussion
in Edmonton, Alberta.

Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:41:56 -0800
Reply-To:     jeanmidd@prodigy.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jean Middleton <jeanmidd@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: New verb

You mention the  term *offlist* as a verb. When I first became a tech
writer in the aerospace business and heard they "offloaded the ship," I
thought that strange, but I got used to it. To me *unload* would have
sounded better. So I suppose we can be offlisted if we choose!

       Jean
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:49:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Business name

Kate Welsh responded:

> Incorporation? It gives you limited liability, because creditors
(including
> people you've done business with who've successfully sued you) can only
take
> assets of your corporation, not your personal assets (e.g., your house
and
> car). But I quickly decided against this, because in my work I'm unlikely
to
> incur much liability ("liability" includes debt, BTW). Also, filing
> incorporation documents and annual reporting to the government is a
bother
> and an expense. Further, the limited liability is often an illusion,
because
> if you borrow much money, the creditor is likely to required your
personal
> guarantee for the debt.

{All my comments apply to the US.]  An additional benefit of incorporation:
my accountant suggests that the tax benefits [of incorporation] make it
worthwhile for, say, $15,000 per year in gross income.  I suspect that may
vary somewhat from state to state.  I haven't incorporated yet, but I
haven't ruled out doing so in the future.  Anyone considering incorporation
should check with one or more financial/tax experts to see whether the
benefits outweigh the costs.

> Proprietorship with a trade name ("doing business as" name)? No limited
> liability, but pretty much  the same tax benefits as incorporation (at
> least, in my situation, in Canada). There's some expense associated with
> doing a name search to ensure that no one else has taken that name, and
then
> registering it. But I decided against a trade name because I'm working
with
> a fairly small community (legal publishers, post-secondary institutions,
and
> the provincial government) where I already have some name recognition.
You
> may want a business name if you're dealing with a broader base of
potential
> clients, and need to stand out from the crowd of potential competitors.

Name recognition, assuming you've already established yourself, is a
factor.  Of course, you can do as I'm doing, and use your name change (and
phone change, in my case) to send around updated marketing materials, thus
reminding everyone you haven't contacted in a while who you are and that
you are still available.

AFAIK, the tax benefits of sole proprietorship are different than those of
incorporation, and possibly not as great.  (The benefits of incorporation,
if I understand correctly, have to do with how FICA tax is paid.)

Name search: I'm not sure you have to do a country-wide name search unless
you want to trademark your name.  I believe that when you register your
DBA, or when you incorporate, a state-wide search may be made.  Again, this
may not apply to all states.

As for why you might choose a business name (in a sole proprietorship
situation):
        *because there's a name you really like
        *because you want a name that describes what you do
        *because your own name is either too common to be memorable (John Smith)
or too prone to mispronunciation (like my name, which has been pronounced,
variously, as Pecker, Parker, Packer, Peeker, and -- acceptably -- as
Peh-KAR.  The family usually pronounces it PEE-kar.)
        *because someone else in the same field has the same name, or too close
for comfort (Jane Smith and Jan Smith)
        *because it makes you feel like you're really in business (which, of
course, you are!)

There are probably other reasons as well; those are just the ones that jump
to mind.  Good luck in your decision, and if you decide to use a business
name, have fun picking one out!

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net

Wordsmith Indexing Services
8112 Harrison Dr.
King George, VA 22485
(540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:33:18 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Sorting the same index in different ways in CINDEX?
In-Reply-To:  <199811091809.NAA15704@mail1.lig.bellsouth.net>

To be honest, I've *forgotten* how you do that in Cindex-DOS -- I try to
shed DOS commands wherever possible! In Cindex-WIN, you just go to Tools /
Sort / Fields, and change the order of the fields in the window (drag 'em up
or down). Voila: instant re-sort!

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Karin Arrigoni
|Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 12:17 PM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Sorting the same index in different ways in CINDEX?
|
|
|Hi All,
|
|I was wondering if there is any way that I can create one document in
|CINDEX that can be sorted in two different ways.
|
|What I'm trying to do is to create one regular back-of-the-book index,
|and also another index-like document that sorts the courses by part
|number and that contains several columns containing additional
|information.  For example:
|
|Part No.  Course Title                     Media Type       Page Number
|
|15853     TCP/IP Fundamentals              Lecture/Lab      108
|18857     Data Communications Concepts     ISP              125
|20003     UNIX Basics                      CBT              101
|
|I don't know if it's possible, but I was hoping to create both indexes in
|one document (for easier maintenance when the document is updated, which
|is yearly) and change the sort order by the use of hidden text or some
|other way.  I checked the manual and didn't see anything that indicated
|that you could toggle hidden text on and off.
|
|Is it possible to do this in one document, or should I not even attempt
|it and just copy the regular CINDEX index and add the extra columns to
|that index?  To create the columns, I was thinking of adding an unusual
|character (like $ or *) to designate the column break within the entry.
|Then after saving the document into Word, I would do a search and replace
|to change the characters to tabs.  Has anyone attempted this sort of
|thing before?  Does it work?
|
|Thanks for any advice!
|
|Karin
|
|P.S.  I would appreciate being cc'd directly (karrigoni@earthlink.net) in
|any replies as I get the messages in index form, and I really could use
|any advice today since I'm working on the project now.
|
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:49:27 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Parrish <AParrsh@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking

Pam writes: "The bestseller book _The Professor and the Madman_, the story of
the
collaboration between the original OED compiler and a volunteer contributor
who was in a British insane asylum has just been the subject of an author
interview on C-Span's "Booknotes."

This story is also told in the biography of Sir James Murray, the OED editor,
_Caught in the Web of Words_. (This book, written by his granddaughter, is one
of my all-time favorite biographies.) The tragic American contributor was one
of a host of men and women who volunteered to help with words for the
dictionary.  For women of a certain class, this unpaid work became an
important outlet, sometimes the only way they had of using their intellectual
abilities without being put down.  Without these volunteers, Murray, working
with a small budget in proportion to his magnificent plan, could never have
completed as much of the OED as he did before his death.

Ann Parrish
Parrish Professional Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:53:30 +0000
Reply-To:     mil0409@ibm.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rebecca Miller <mil0409@IBM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Concordance to Joyce (fictional)

Oh! you just reminded me of how I miss Garrison's entertainment on Sunday
evenings. When I lived in Des Moines, Used to listen , very relaxing and
 amusing.
I wish I would have heard that session you referred to!!
rebecca, now in las vegas, reluctantly.....:)

Mary Mortensen wrote:

> Did anyone else hear "Prairie Home Companion" on public radio (in the U.S.)
> this weekend?  In the 'News from Lake Wobegon', Garrison Keillor talked about
> a Lake Wobegon native who moved away (to NY I think - please forgive me if
> I've forgotten some of the details) and became obsessed with making a
> concordance to Joyce's _Ulysses_.  Keillor referred to it as an index once,
> but usually as a concordance, explaining that every word, even "the" and "a"
> were in it.  This man worked for years, on index cards, in the evenings after
> his legal proofreading job.
>
> Then one day, scholars discovered the lost "Minnesota passage" that should
> have been on page 5 of _Ulysses_.  (For those of you not familiar with this
> radio program, it is broadcast from St. Paul, Minnesota, and Lake Wobegon is a
> fictional small town in Minn.)   In this passage, Bloom has a map of St. Paul
> and muses on the street names (particularly those named for flowers).
>
> Of course, the insertion of this passage means that the pagination of the rest
> of the book changes, and this man's concordance needs to be redone.  The
> implication was that he died soon after, his life work unfinished.
>
> The frustration was easy for me to identify with, especially as I'm currently
> dealing with a chapter received with 5 inches of repeated text.  Feel free to
> add more details if you heard this.  I'm wondering where this came from, as
> Keillor's plot complications are sometimes related to events in his life.
> Guess I'll have to check the rec.arts.wobegon newsgroup to see if anyone there
> is discussing this monologue :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Mary
> --
> *  Mary Mortensen                              *  marymort@aol.com
> *  Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:58:03 +0000
Reply-To:     mil0409@ibm.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rebecca Miller <mil0409@IBM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Y2K Compliance

hi Kate. I enjoyed your note. And also, about the y2k subject, if you hear
anything educational, I would appreciate an email, even if you do it privately.
My husband thinks its silly, but I am the computer buff of the family and I know
enough to be seriously 'alert' to any and all ramifications.
bye
rebecca

Kate Welsh wrote:

> My thanks to all who answered my query about testing my PCs. I haven't yet
> done the testing, but I have your messages on hand for when I find time to
> do it (sometime _before_ December 31, 1999, I hope!)
>
> I may have something further to share after Nov. 30 -- my branch of the EAC
> is hosting a panel discussion called "Is the Sky Really Falling? Y2K Reality
> Check". The panelists sound knowledgeable, so if I hear anything useful,
> I'll pass it on.
>
> Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:19:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Marcy Brown <marcelyn@WESTOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Business name

The reason I decided to use a DBA is simple...I wanted to keep my personal
 expenses
separate from my business expenses, and not have to work so hard to justify
 them. I
have a checking account and a credit card associated only with my business name,
 so
I know that anything in or out of the account or paid with the credit card were
 only
business expenses.

I just find it's easier, in my cluttered life, to do things that way.

Marcy Brown
Wordsmith Services (in PA!!)

John and Kara Pekar wrote:

> There are probably other reasons as well; those are just the ones that jump
> to mind.  Good luck in your decision, and if you decide to use a business
> name, have fun picking one out!
>
> Kara Pekar
> jkpekar@crosslink.net
>
> Wordsmith Indexing Services
> 8112 Harrison Dr.
> King George, VA 22485
> (540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 18:49:11 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Mail explosion
In-Reply-To:  <199811091312.FAA02273@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>

Eeek! Is this happening to anyone else who's posted here? This doesn't seem
to be the same type thing as the beserk automatic messages we discussed a
few days ago. Yesterday I posted two messages here. I received two copies
of a canned message about someone not receiving it at some remote site.
Then, I received a copy of each of my posts from DSAA/MSGATEPO/POSTMASTER
         <IMCEAMS-DSAA_MSGATEPO_POSTMASTER@osd.pentagon.mil>

containing the text:[005] Mail retry count exceeded sending to:
  EUCOM     /ODCGREECE

Now having posted this, I'll probably receive two more canned messages.

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:34:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      DPC '97 proceedings available   (fwd)

Given the recent trend on Web indexing, I thought this might be of interest
to some of you.

Roberta Horowitz
rhorowitz@acm.org

>The conference proceedings from the 1997 data processing clinic are now
>available from the GSLIS publications office at the University of
>Illinois. These proceedings detail the challenges of information
>organization and retrieval; more specifics appear below the title and
>ordering information here.
>
>"Visualizing Subject Access for 21st Century Information Resources"
>Edited by Pauline Atherton Cochrane and Eric H. Johnson
>ISBN 0-87845-103-X; No. 34; 176 pages; cloth; $30 plus shipping
>        Available from The GSLIS Publications Office, University of
>        Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 E. Daniel St., Champaign, IL 61820
>        Phone: (217) 333-1359   Fax: (217) 244-7329   E-mail:
>        puboff@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu   http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/puboff
>        (Prepayment required:  VISA, MasterCard, American Express,
Discover, and
>        checks payable to "The University of Illinois"; students,
bookstores and
>        wholesalers receive a ten percent discount.)
>
>URBANA-CHAMPAIGN, IL--The growth of the Internet only foreshadows what
>will happen with globally distributed information resources in the coming
>century. Coping with current problems of organization and retrieval using
>present-day technological answers will not be enough for tomorrow's users.
>Leading researchers in information retrieval systems examined a variety of
>related issues at "Visualizing Subject Access for 21st Century Information
>Resources," the 34th Annual Clinic on Library Applications of Data
>Processing sponsored by the Graduate School of Library and Information
>Science at the Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology in
>March 1997. Their papers and presentations are collected in these
>proceedings published by The GSLIS Publications Office.  This book is
>significant reading for all LIS professionals involved in subject
>searching.
>
>"There is, perhaps, no person who knows more about subject searching than
>professor Cochrane," writes  David Dorman in Computers in Libraries ("A
>Conference on Visualizing Subject Access," 17:5, 18-20, www.infotoday.
>com), calling the conference, "the highest quality and most informative
>library event I have ever experienced."
>
>Drawn from various communities of research and development in the U.S. and
>Europe, the speakers  provided viewpoints as digital library developers,
>interface and visualization experts, bibliographic system vendors,
>cognitive researchers, librarians, and information service providers.
>Included among the topics at the 1997 clinic:
>* Do the designers of digital library systems envision a role for
>more traditional library classification schemes and thesauri?
>* What new tools exist to create visual displays of vocabulary
>choices and term relationships to    improve browsing and search
>negotiation in either collections of full-text information or
>information surrogate files on the Internet, CD-ROM, etc.?
>* Have cognitive research and user modeling efforts produced
>results which could impact subject access tool design?
>* What interface, browsing, and navigation tools are on the
>drawing board or in prototype systems which may help to improve
>subject access?
>* How will the new systems handle the "interspace" where switching
>vocabularies will be needed to access and search federated and
>unfederated repositories of full-text information in various
>languages?
>Papers include World Wide Web URLs that offer further insight into
>presentations.
>
>Pauline Atherton Cochrane is a research professor emerita at the
>Graduate School of Library and Information Science and Eric H. Johnson is
>a  research  programmer at the CANIS-Community Systems Lab of GSLIS, both
>at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Consistently ranked as
>one of the top three library and information science programs in the U.S.,
>the Graduate School of Library and Information Science, founded in 1893 at
>the Armour Institute in Chicago, maintains a reputation of excellence and
>quality.  The University of Illinois was founded in 1867, and is regularly
>cited among leading universities in the United States.
>___________________________________________________________________________
>The Publications Office of the
>Graduate School of Library and Information Science
>University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
>
>(217) 333-1359 phone, (217) 244-7329 FAX
>puboff@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
>http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/puboff
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:47:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      TOCs, JASIS, Volume 49, Numbers 13 and 14

With the recent thread on Web indexing, I thought I would bring to your
attention much of the research on this subject that is being done in the
information science literature.  Below are the abstracts from two recent
issues of the Journal of the American Society Informtion Science.  The
recent ASIS  conference also had several interesting papers on the Web and
information retrieval.


>[Note: below are URLs for viewing past contents of JASIS, both as presented
>here and full text.  This posting includes both Numbers 13 and 14 of Volume
>49.]
>
>Journal of the American Society for Information Science (JASIS)
>VOLUME 49, NUMBER 13
>NOVEMBER 1998
>CONTENTS
>
>In This Issue
>Bert R. Boyce
>1143
>
>RESEARCH
>
>Topological Aspects of Information Retrieval
>Leo Egghe and Ronald Rousseau
>1144
>        We begin with two articles suggesting the possible separation of
document
>and query vector space. Viewing information retrieval as a topology on a
>document space determined by a similarity function between queries and
>documents gives what Egghe and Rousseau call a retrieval topology. Such
>topologies might use a pseudo metric which measures the distance between
>documents independent of the query space, or might make all similarity
>functions between documents and queries continuous, called here the
>similarity topology. The topological model allows the introduction of
>Boolean operators. The inner product is suggested as producing a more
>powerful model than the cosine measure.
>
>On the Necessity of Term Dependence in a Query Space for Weighted Retrieval
>Peter Bollmann-Sdorra and Vijay V. Raghavan
>1161
>        Bollmann-Sdorra and Raghavan show that if query term weights are to be
>useful in retrieval, term independence is an undesirable property in a
>query space. Independence remains desirable in document space. It would
>appear that the assumptions that documents and queries are elements of the
>same space, and that term independence is required, are not warranted.
>
>Optimizing a Library's Loan Policy: An Integer Programming Approach
>Hesham K. Al-Fares
>1169
>        Al-Fares presents a new loan policy model which incorporates a decision
>variable for maximum books to be borrowed, along with the traditional loan
>period, and adds user satisfaction with policies to the usual book
>availability satisfaction indicator. Each indicator is defined as the ratio
>of satisfied demand to total demand. Number of renewals, duplications,
>demand, and reservations are considered to have a very small effect.
>
>On the Fusion of Documents from Multiple Collection Information Retrieval
>Systems
>Ronald R. Yager and Alexander Rybalov
>1177
>         Yager and Rybalov assume m retrieval systems without file overlap each
>providing a ranked list of texts based upon their varying ranking criteria,
>and in response to a common query, and define fusion as the construction of
>a single ordered list of the n most relevant texts over all m system
>responses. This requires determining the potential of each system to
>provide relevant answers to the query.  A previous fusion method which is
>empirically effective but where different runs will result in different
>orderings, uses a random selection method biased toward the length of the
>contributing list. Alternatively one might use the longest remaining list
>for each choice or take equally from each collection until the shortest is
>exhausted, and then continue until the next shortest is exhausted until all
>are exhausted. A centralized fusion scheme computes a value based upon the
>number of documents in a list and the number already removed. The value is
>re-computed for each collection after each removal of the top element in
>the collection with the highest value. Another possibility is a
>proportional approach, where the list value is its remaining number of
>elements less one divided by the original number, and a value can be
>assigned to each individual document which is the number of elements in the
>list less its position in the list, divided by the number of elements in
>the list.
>
>Indexing and Access for Digital Libraries and the Internet: Human,
>Database, and Domain Factors
>Marcia J. Bates
>1185
>        Bates provides a review of what we know and do not know about
indexing and
>access that will apply to large digital document files. Particularly she
>emphasizes that statistical regularities exist in the subject
>representation of files and should influence design, that subject domain
>should affect system design, and that what we know of human linguistic and
>searching behavior must be taken into account for an optimal information
>retrieval system.
>
>Software Engineering as Seen through Its Research Literature: A Study in
>Co-Word Analysis
>Neal Coulter, Ira Monarch, and Suresh Konda
>1206
>        The indexing for 16,691 documents from 1982 to 1994 which were
assigned at
>least one term from the software engineering category was collected by
>Coulter, Monarch, and Konda and a co-occurrence study carried out to
>determine the interaction of software engineering areas of study over time.
>The association measure was the square of the co-occurrences of two terms
>over the product of their occurrences. The threshold value was varied with
>the size of the data sets, but the number of links and nodes was fixed at
>twenty-four and twenty. For the period 19821986 15 networks were generated;
>for 19871990 16; and for 19911994 11. The networks exhibit considerable
>change over time although some consistent themes, like software development
>and user interfaces, persist.
>
>Information Aspects of New Organizational Designs: Exploring the
>Non-Traditional Organization
>Bob Travica
>1224
>        To address the role of information technology in non-traditional
>organizations Travica treats IT as level of use of several specific
>technologies, and non-traditional structure as the level of organization
>structure, plus other selected variables. Data came from surveys of a
>random stratified sample of employees at twelve local accounting offices
>and an interview with the local manager. Information technology correlates
>with non-traditional structure. Information technology correlates
>negatively with formalization and centralization, and positively with cross
>boundary communication. Spatial dispersion is negatively associated with
>trust sharing.
>
>----End Volume 49, Number 13---
>Journal of the American Society for Information Science (JASIS)
>
>VOLUME 14, NUMBER 14
>DECEMBER 1998
>
>CONTENTS
>
>In This Issue
>Bert R. Boyce
>1245
>
>IN MEMORIAM
>Phyllis Allen Richmond: Award of Merit Winner Dies at 76
>Pauline Atherton Cochrane
>1246
>        We begin sadly with Cochrane's memoriam for one of my former
teachers, an
>award of merit winner, and a true lady, Phyllis Richmond. She would have
>enjoyed this issue with its emphasis on subject searching and classification.
>
>RESEARCH
>
>Searching through Cyberspace: The Effects of Link Cues and Correspondence
>on Information Retrieval from Hypertext on the World Wide Web
>Kushal Khan and Craig Locatis
>1248
>           Khan, and Locatis investigate the effect of the density of hypertext
>links on an index type page, and whether the links should appear within the
>text of paragraphs, or in lists constructed for that purpose. Sixty-four
>magnet high school students searched a 15-page document on an unfamiliar
>topic structured into 9 chapters and linked to 18 related external
>documents. The four versions had either high or low density links and
>either list or in paragraph link placement. Search time and numbers of
>links were recorded by observers. The use of lists of links and low density
>display produces positive effects upon overall performance.
>
>Partial Coordination. I. The Best of Pre-Coordination and
>Ajit Kambil and David Bodoff
>1270
>   Bodoff, and Kambil in Partial Coordination, part I present a major
>review of the retrieval characteristics of pre and post coordinate indexing
>languages. They suggest that indexers assign not only subject terms but
>other ``dependency'' terms, context providing terms that are linked to
>subject terms much in the same manner as links were used in retrieval 30
>years ago.
>
>Partial Coordination. II. A Preliminary Evaluation and Failure Analysis
>
>   Kambil and Bodoff in Partial Coordination, part II, implement partial
>coordination by incrementing a document's relevance score if a query term
>occurs in the document's index and that term's dependency terms also appear
>in the query and not otherwise. Seven queries were chosen from the TREC3 ad
>hoc queries, and TIPSTER documents ranked by the Cornell group for these
>queries were chosen as the 418 document test set. Queries were TREC
>descriptions less stop words, or were selected by MBA students. All words
>were treated as single terms and stemmed. In most cases precision increased
>considerably at some loss in recall.
>
>Library Journal Use and Citation Half-Life in Medical Science
>Ming-Yueh Tsay
>1283
>           Tsay compares in-house use half-life with citation half-life of
the 835
>title journal collection of the Library of Veterans General Hospital,
>Taipei, using re-shelving data on year of publication for a six-month
>period in 93/94, and using Journal Citation Reports from 1993. Citation
>half-lives are significantly greater than use half-lives; use analysis
>indicating rapid obsolescence. Older journals and journals published
>monthly have longer half-lives.
>
>Document Representations and Clues to Document Relevance
>Carol L. Barry
>1293
>           Barry finds that judgments of evaluators of the relevance of
documents
>based upon document surrogates vary with the nature of the document
>representation used. To determine what aspects affect such judgments, 18
>subjects were provided answers to their questions in the form of
>descriptive cataloging, notes, abstracts, and index terms on separate
>pages, and asked to mark causes of acceptance or rejection and interviewed
>about their choices. Titles and abstracts appear to be better indicators of
>relevance than index terms, but the clues seem to depend more on users
>context than on document representation. Different sorts of representation
>vary in their ability to provide clues to specific traits.
>
>Filtering Medical Documents Using Automated and Human Classification Methods
>J. Mostafa, L. M. Quiroga, and M. Palakal
>1304
>           The application of information filtering to Internet supplied
documents
>is analogous to SDI and, to a lesser extent, retrospective information
>retrieval systems. Mostafa, Quiroga and Palakal use terms extracted from
>sample documents and a clustering algorithm to create a single place
>document classification whose centroids provided a match for the assignment
>of new documents. New documents are converted to term vectors, based on an
>existing thesaurus. Documents are then assigned to the class whose centroid
>has the minimum distance from the document vector. Using user preferences
>modified by feedback of user generated relevance judgments, the classes are
>prioritized for each user.
>           From 7500 records in 15 cell biology MeSH categories, 6000
titles and
>abstracts for the training set were used to generate 22 centroids, and the
>remainder for testing. The highly homogenous automatically generated
>classes performed better than the less homogenous, and a wide variation was
>present. The manually applied MeSH classification outpreformed the automatic.
>
>
>Invoked on the Web
>Blaise Cronin, Herbert W. Snyder, Howard Rosenbaum, Anna Martinson, and Ewa
>Callahan
>1319
>           ``Invocation'' is used by Cronin et al. as a term including the
>concepts of citation and acknowledgment but also other modalities
>representing world wide web linkages in the area of scholarly
>communication. Five search engines were used to search for invocations of
>five names of a highly cited library school faculty. Content analysis led
>to eleven form-based categories of pages invoked. Performances of the
>engines are quite different with one providing 516 unique hits and another
>only 17. The rankings of the subjects by numbers of invocations do not
>correlate with citation rankings.
>
>BOOK REVIEWS
>Java in a Nutshell: A Desktop Quick Reference, by David Flanagan
>Michael R. Leach
>1329
>
>Readings in Agents, edited by Michael N. Huhns and Munindar P. Singh
>Jeff White
>1330
>
>Guide to Finding Legal and Regulatory Information on the Internet, by
>Yvonne J. Chandler
>Penny A. Hazelton
>1332
>
>Information of the Image (2nd ed.), by Allan D. Pratt
>Charles Cole
>1333
>
>User and Task Analysis for Interface Design, by JoAnn T. Hackos and Janice
>C. Redish
>Jonathan Kies
>1334
>
>Research Misconduct: Issues, Implications, and Strategies, edited by Ellen
>Altman and Peter Hernon
>Jeff White
>1334
>
>Books, Bricks & Bytes: Libraries in the Twenty-First Century, edited by
>Stephen R. Graubard and Paul LeClerc
>Janie L. Hassard Wilkins
>1336
>
>The Virtual Workplace, edited by Magid Igbaria and Margaret Tan
>James Sempsey
>1337
>
>Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption, by
>Whitfield Diffie and Susan Landau
>Thomas A. Peters
>1338
>
>1343 AUTHOR INDEX
>
>1349 SUBJECT INDEX
>
>I VOLUME CONTENTS
>-------------------------------------------------------
>The ASIS home page <http://www.asis.org> contains the Table of Contents and
>abstracts (if available) from January 1992 (Volume 43) to date.
>
>The full text of JASIS is available at <http://www.interscience.wiley.com>
>from 1986 (Volume 37) forward.  You must register but there is no charge.
>This site includes the full text of JASIS and other Wiley journals.  You
>may also set up a personal home page which allows you to:
>
>Browse the Wiley InterScience collection
>Search across the entire content of Wiley InterScience journals
>Add your own notes and comments to individual articles
>Store sets of search criteria for the searches you perform most often
>Go directly to the home page of your favorite Wiley journal
>Create and maintain your personal reading list
>
>To view the JASIS articles full text, click on the "view articles" button
>at the top of the Title/Abstract page.
>
>The complete sequence, after logging on and going to the JASIS page is: 1)
>select issue to view; 2) select title of article; 3) select the "view
>article" button at the top of the page above the abstract.  The article
>will then appear in Adobe Acrobat.
>
>American Society for Information Science
>8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501
>Silver Spring, MD  20910
>(301) 495-0900  FAX (301) 495-0810
>http://www.asis.org
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:44:54 +1100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kerrie Talmacs <k.talmacs@UNSW.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: DPC '97 proceedings available   (fwd)
In-Reply-To:  <199811100331.OAA23464@sam.comms.unsw.EDU.AU>

Sue,

Please order the title below for "S". "Notify Kerrie Talmacs, EIRG "

Thanks

Kerrie





At 10:34 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Given the recent trend on Web indexing, I thought this might be of interest
>to some of you.
>
>Roberta Horowitz
>rhorowitz@acm.org
>
>>The conference proceedings from the 1997 data processing clinic are now
>>available from the GSLIS publications office at the University of
>>Illinois. These proceedings detail the challenges of information
>>organization and retrieval; more specifics appear below the title and
>>ordering information here.
>>
>>"Visualizing Subject Access for 21st Century Information Resources"
>>Edited by Pauline Atherton Cochrane and Eric H. Johnson
>>ISBN 0-87845-103-X; No. 34; 176 pages; cloth; $30 plus shipping
>>        Available from The GSLIS Publications Office, University of
>>        Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 E. Daniel St., Champaign, IL 61820
>>        Phone: (217) 333-1359   Fax: (217) 244-7329   E-mail:
>>        puboff@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu   http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/puboff
>>        (Prepayment required:  VISA, MasterCard, American Express,
>Discover, and
>>        checks payable to "The University of Illinois"; students,
>bookstores and
>>        wholesalers receive a ten percent discount.)
>>
>>URBANA-CHAMPAIGN, IL--The growth of the Internet only foreshadows what
>>will happen with globally distributed information resources in the coming
>>century. Coping with current problems of organization and retrieval using
>>present-day technological answers will not be enough for tomorrow's users.
>>Leading researchers in information retrieval systems examined a variety of
>>related issues at "Visualizing Subject Access for 21st Century Information
>>Resources," the 34th Annual Clinic on Library Applications of Data
>>Processing sponsored by the Graduate School of Library and Information
>>Science at the Beckman Institute for Advanced Science and Technology in
>>March 1997. Their papers and presentations are collected in these
>>proceedings published by The GSLIS Publications Office.  This book is
>>significant reading for all LIS professionals involved in subject
>>searching.
>>
>>"There is, perhaps, no person who knows more about subject searching than
>>professor Cochrane," writes  David Dorman in Computers in Libraries ("A
>>Conference on Visualizing Subject Access," 17:5, 18-20, www.infotoday.
>>com), calling the conference, "the highest quality and most informative
>>library event I have ever experienced."
>>
>>Drawn from various communities of research and development in the U.S. and
>>Europe, the speakers  provided viewpoints as digital library developers,
>>interface and visualization experts, bibliographic system vendors,
>>cognitive researchers, librarians, and information service providers.
>>Included among the topics at the 1997 clinic:
>>* Do the designers of digital library systems envision a role for
>>more traditional library classification schemes and thesauri?
>>* What new tools exist to create visual displays of vocabulary
>>choices and term relationships to    improve browsing and search
>>negotiation in either collections of full-text information or
>>information surrogate files on the Internet, CD-ROM, etc.?
>>* Have cognitive research and user modeling efforts produced
>>results which could impact subject access tool design?
>>* What interface, browsing, and navigation tools are on the
>>drawing board or in prototype systems which may help to improve
>>subject access?
>>* How will the new systems handle the "interspace" where switching
>>vocabularies will be needed to access and search federated and
>>unfederated repositories of full-text information in various
>>languages?
>>Papers include World Wide Web URLs that offer further insight into
>>presentations.
>>
>>Pauline Atherton Cochrane is a research professor emerita at the
>>Graduate School of Library and Information Science and Eric H. Johnson is
>>a  research  programmer at the CANIS-Community Systems Lab of GSLIS, both
>>at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Consistently ranked as
>>one of the top three library and information science programs in the U.S.,
>>the Graduate School of Library and Information Science, founded in 1893 at
>>the Armour Institute in Chicago, maintains a reputation of excellence and
>>quality.  The University of Illinois was founded in 1867, and is regularly
>>cited among leading universities in the United States.
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>>The Publications Office of the
>>Graduate School of Library and Information Science
>>University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
>>
>>(217) 333-1359 phone, (217) 244-7329 FAX
>>puboff@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
>>http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/puboff
>>
>
>
--------------------------------------------
Kerrie Talmacs
Metadata Co-ordinator
Electronic Information Resources Group
Library
University of New South Wales
Sydney, 2052
Australia
E.mail: k.talmacs@unsw.edu.au
Phone: +61 2 93852622
Fax: +61 2 96626309
-----------
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:31:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      odd house styles

I'm working on an index for a publisher with whom I haven't worked before.
Their house style adds the punctuation of a run-in index to the structure
of an indented index.  IOW:

        bears:
                brown, 2-4, 86;
                grizzlies, 45-47;
                surviving attacks of, 157.
        camping, 62-63;
                choosing a site, 49-51, 88;
                equipment for, 45-48, 62, 79-84.
                _See also_ commercial campsites

First, is this really weird, or have I just not run across it before?
Secondly, if I'm right that it is odd, what can I and what should I do
about it?  Ought I to tactfully point out that it gives the index a very
cluttered look, and it is unnecessary?  I don't want to lose this
publisher, but at the same time, I'm sure they'd like their indexes to look
as good as possible.  A friend suggested that perhaps they drew up their
style sheet and guidelines (which are obviously compiled for authors
preparing their own indexes) back when they used a run-in style, and when
they switched to indented style no one realized that they should check the
style and revise it.  Their guideline sample looks exactly like my sample
above, except that I've changed the entries and only included what is
relevant to my query.

Please pardon the slight incoherence of this post.  I've been putting the
darn colons and semicolons in by hand, and my eyes are starting to
unfocus...

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net

Wordsmith Indexing Services
8112 Harrison Dr.
King George, VA 22485
(540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:01:30 +0000
Reply-To:     connolly@neca.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Daniel A. Connolly" <connolly@NECA.COM>
Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services
Subject:      1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

Hi all,

I wonder if I could impose on the collected wisdom? I've gotten an offer to
index a textbook in special education. It's the 8th edition, and the third
time that this editor has revised it. It's 525 indexable pages and she's asked
for both a subject and a name index with 2-3 weeks turnaround. I'm not
concerned with the job (well not too concerned--but it is my first job;-D), as
it is in my field and I've got the time to get it done.

My question is what to charge for two indexes? I've been following the thread
on beginner's rates and have decided to shoot for $3.00/page, minimum. I'm
pretty familiar with the material here, and I think that it's worth $3.00 for
anyone, not just a beginner. In this field, is it expected that a name index
will be produced as well, for the same price? I'm thinking not, but didn't
want her to laugh me out of her rolodex when I decided to charge more than
$3.00/page. Since I will be reviewing the material, it won't be difficult to
pick out the names as I go along. I was thinking of offering a deal on the
name index, so that the total fee is $4.00 to $4.50/page.

I know that name indexes can be really tedious and that I will regret giving
her a deal on it while I'm doing it, but they also involve a lot less skill as
an indexer and I'd feel uncomfortable asking for more. I actually will
probably feel uncomfortable asking for $4.50/page and will probably go with
 $4.00.

I'd appreciate any input.

Dan
--

=========================================
Daniel A. Connolly
mailto:connolly@neca.com
WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services
www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com
Woodstock, CT, USA
=========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:07:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ilana Kingsley <inewby@BERYL.ILS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      encyclopedia of cities, Part II

I'm seeking suggestions (but I know the responses will vary).

Part I

So, I have my nice little list of headings:

Houston, Texas, 344-349
Houston Museum of Art, 348
Houston Museum of Science, 348
Houston Public Library, 348
Houston University, 349
Houston University and Science Institute, 349
etc.

Do I:
a) get rid of all of the Houston entries beneath Houston, Texas?
If so, then what about consistency...meaning what about the headings
University of Houston
University of Houston at Texas
etc.

or

b) keep the headings for consistency, and since they are proper nouns?

--------------------

Part II

How far is far enough when helping the user?
For example:

commercial sector
Leeds, England, 33
Los Angeles, California, 144
Madrid, Spain, 44
etc.


Do I drop the country or state name and just use the city (since this is
an encyc. of cities)? or do I keep them?


Thanks
--Ilana
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:30:13 +1300
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Simon Cauchi <cauchi@WAVE.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Perhaps Not So Shocking

I haven't yet seen Simon Winchester's book (_The Professor and the Madman_,
alias _The Surgeon of Crowthorne_), but have read John Banville's notice of
it in the June _Literary Review_, which ends:

"The book will likely be a great success, in the line of _Longitude_ and
_Fermat's Last Theorem_. The blurb announces that Luc Besson has bought a
film option for $2 million. One can easily imagine the film, with Gary
Oldman as Murray, Tim Roth as the murderous Dr Minor, and Uma Thurman as
the Dictionary."

I have no idea what Gary Oldman, Tim Roth, and Uma Thurman look like. Can
someone please explain the joke?

Simon Cauchi
Freelance Editor and Indexer
13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand
Telephone and facsimile (+64) 7-854-9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:15:29 -0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Headley <chps@GLOBALNET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: New verbs

From Christine Headley

Jean Middleton wrote


>You mention the  term *offlist* as a verb. When I first became a tech
>writer in the aerospace business and heard they "offloaded the ship," I
>thought that strange, but I got used to it. To me *unload* would have
>sounded better. So I suppose we can be offlisted if we choose!
>
If someone 'offloaded', or maybe 'off-loaded' a ship, it would suggest to me
that the ship was got rid of in some way, perhaps sold at a loss.

Christine H
Stroud, Glos
<chps@globalnet.co.uk>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:51:37 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pam Rider <prider@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject:      Re: encyclopedia of cities, Part II
In-Reply-To:  <199811100813.AAA26167@decibel.electriciti.com>

At 03:07 AM 11/10/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm seeking suggestions (but I know the responses will vary).
>
>Part I
>
>So, I have my nice little list of headings:
>
>Houston, Texas, 344-349
>Houston Museum of Art, 348
>Houston Museum of Science, 348
>Houston Public Library, 348
>Houston University, 349
>Houston University and Science Institute, 349
>etc.
>
I would:

Houston, Texas
        public library system
Houston Museum of Art
Houston Museum of Science
University of Texas at Houston
        Institute, University and Science (or--depending on actual proper name,
 j
just Science Institute)

Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:55:39 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: encyclopedia of cities, Part II
In-Reply-To:  <199811100807.DAA15290@mail4.bellsouth.net>

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Ilana Kingsley
|Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 2:07 AM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: encyclopedia of cities, Part II
|
|
|I'm seeking suggestions (but I know the responses will vary).
|
|Part I
|
|So, I have my nice little list of headings:
|
|Houston, Texas, 344-349
|Houston Museum of Art, 348
|Houston Museum of Science, 348
|Houston Public Library, 348
|Houston University, 349
|Houston University and Science Institute, 349
|etc.
|
|Do I:
|a) get rid of all of the Houston entries beneath Houston, Texas?
|If so, then what about consistency...meaning what about the headings
|University of Houston
|University of Houston at Texas
|etc.
|
|or
|
|b) keep the headings for consistency, and since they are proper nouns?

Definitely B: Ordinarily, you would NOT remove words from a proper named (of
any kind). Otherwise, you could reasonably have something like:

University of Texas at Austin
        Dallas
        San Antonio
        Tyler
etc, or:

Guthrie, Arlo
        Woody
                Jr.

...both of which would be pretty meaningless. Treat a proper name as an
indivisible whole (even if it's inverted).

|--------------------
|
|Part II
|
|How far is far enough when helping the user?
|For example:
|
|commercial sector
|Leeds, England, 33
|Los Angeles, California, 144
|Madrid, Spain, 44
|etc.
|
|
|Do I drop the country or state name and just use the city (since this is
|an encyc. of cities)? or do I keep them?

First of all, pluralize your main heading. Then, consider putting the
geographical qualifier in parentheses, which is a common way of adding info
for the reader. Like:

commercial sectors
        Leeds (UK)
        Los Angeles (Calif.)
        Madrid (Spain)

etc (though you would probably NOT want to use both U.S. states and country
names as qualifiers; have to think about that one). The point is, if there's
a commercial sector in Toledo, does that mean Spain or Ohio? There may be a
"Leeds" in Wyoming, for all I know...  :)

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:58:24 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nell Benton <Nmbenton@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Book reviews and letters to the editor

I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have been asked to index
the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?
Nell
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:02:43 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking
In-Reply-To:  <199811100932.EAA02036@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net>

It's not what they look like, but the fact that all three are very "big box
office" and all tend to play oddball characters. Gary Oldman was Dracula in
"Bram Stoker's Dracula" and numerous roles since then. Tim Roth plays in
definitely "different" films, esp things by the Coen Brothers' (like "The
Hudsucker Proxy"). Among other roles, Uma Thurman was Marcus's wife in "Pulp
Fiction" (who OD-ed and had to be revived by a hypo to the heart).

Substitute the three biggest names in Aussi films, I think, and the joke
would be the same....

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Simon Cauchi
|Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 3:30 AM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Perhaps Not So Shocking
|
|
|I haven't yet seen Simon Winchester's book (_The Professor and the Madman_,
|alias _The Surgeon of Crowthorne_), but have read John Banville's notice of
|it in the June _Literary Review_, which ends:
|
|"The book will likely be a great success, in the line of _Longitude_ and
|_Fermat's Last Theorem_. The blurb announces that Luc Besson has bought a
|film option for $2 million. One can easily imagine the film, with Gary
|Oldman as Murray, Tim Roth as the murderous Dr Minor, and Uma Thurman as
|the Dictionary."
|
|I have no idea what Gary Oldman, Tim Roth, and Uma Thurman look like. Can
|someone please explain the joke?
|
|Simon Cauchi
|Freelance Editor and Indexer
|13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand
|Telephone and facsimile (+64) 7-854-9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz
|
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:00:42 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Toni Williams TPG/SG <towilliams@PROCYONGROUP.COM>
Subject:      Perhaps Not So Shocking

I found the book at amazon.com.  It's title there was The Professor and the
Madman.

Toni Clark Williams
The Procyon Group
Documentation Department
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:04:14 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: odd house styles

I agree that it's a very odd style and that it looks cluttered.  You're
assumptions about how they arrived at it are probably correct.  I don't
think they'd be offended if you pointed it out to them and suggested an
improvement, but be prepared to cheerfully accept the response that that's
the way they want it.  As long as you approach the subject as a suggestion
and not a demand, I don't think they would take offense, especially if you
point out that it is at variance with "industry standards."

Good luck!

-- Sharon W.
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John and Kara Pekar [SMTP:jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET]
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 11:31 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      odd house styles
>
> I'm working on an index for a publisher with whom I haven't worked before.
> Their house style adds the punctuation of a run-in index to the structure
> of an indented index.  IOW:
>
>         bears:
>                 brown, 2-4, 86;
>                 grizzlies, 45-47;
>                 surviving attacks of, 157.
>         camping, 62-63;
>                 choosing a site, 49-51, 88;
>                 equipment for, 45-48, 62, 79-84.
>                 _See also_ commercial campsites
>
> First, is this really weird, or have I just not run across it before?
> Secondly, if I'm right that it is odd, what can I and what should I do
> about it?  Ought I to tactfully point out that it gives the index a very
> cluttered look, and it is unnecessary?  I don't want to lose this
> publisher, but at the same time, I'm sure they'd like their indexes to
> look
> as good as possible.  A friend suggested that perhaps they drew up their
> style sheet and guidelines (which are obviously compiled for authors
> preparing their own indexes) back when they used a run-in style, and when
> they switched to indented style no one realized that they should check the
> style and revise it.  Their guideline sample looks exactly like my sample
> above, except that I've changed the entries and only included what is
> relevant to my query.
>
> Please pardon the slight incoherence of this post.  I've been putting the
> darn colons and semicolons in by hand, and my eyes are starting to
> unfocus...
>
> Kara Pekar
> jkpekar@crosslink.net
>
> Wordsmith Indexing Services
> 8112 Harrison Dr.
> King George, VA 22485
> (540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:31:45 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor
In-Reply-To:  <199811101359.IAA14986@mail4.bellsouth.net>

I've done a couple of large-ish journal indexes and book reviews were
included in both -- by author and title of the book being reviewed, by the
name of the reviewer, and by *one* "principle" subject heading. This seems
to work out okay, though it depends on the subject being pretty obvious, I
guess.

I've never seen a journal index that included letters to the editor. If the
letter wanders about, discussing several topics (or several published
articles), I can't imagine how you would come up with an "efficient" list of
subjects....

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Nell Benton
|Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 7:58 AM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Book reviews and letters to the editor
|
|
|I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have been asked to index
|the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the
|editor as well
|as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?
|Nell
|
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:32:06 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor

Hi Nell,

I have been asked to do the same, and what I tried to do is index judiciously.
In other words, if the topics relate to material discussed in past articles,
access to the letters to the editor is important, so I try to use the same
keywords I used relating to the article(s) under discussion. But I might skip
something new (and outside the scope of the journal) introduced only in a
letter. For book reviews, I would adhere to the topics already used in the
index, again not adding anything too far afield from the journal's usual
topics.

As a reader, I can think of reasons to want reviews and letters indexed, so I
try to use keywords that make sense in the context of the journal. New topics
and extraneous information strike me as of "passing mention" status.

I think the client believes that indexing the letters and reviews takes less
time than indexing the text, but in my experience the indexer can spend more
time worrying about what to leave out and what to put in than is really
warranted. So, I try to index the letters and reviews after indexing the text
itself, and I try to focus on making a quick pass through. In other words, I
try to reduce my decision-making time in order to remain efficient when
indexing this kind of material.

I can think of a few cases in which responses to articles that appeared as
letters to the editor have important information not published elsewhere in
back issues of "American Antiquity," and there are some important exchanges of
information that are always cited as appearing in seminal form in letters to
the editor. So, clearly depending on the kind of journal, it may or may not be
important to index the letters to the editor.

As for the book reviews, I try to index using major keywords appearing in the
book titles or first paragraph of the review. Book "notes" are even harder to
index well. But I try to confine myself to the most important key terms, not
indexing in the same depth as the text of articles. What I assume is that
people want to be able to find reviews of major works quickly. Unless the
reviewer beats the drum at length about something significant (here is where a
background in the subject area and knowledge of previous literature are so
important), I would not index the review as if it were an article.

I have found it productive to ask why the editor wants the letters and review
indexed. That might help you establish some criteria for what to include or
exclude.

Barbara
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:00:06 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pam Rider <prider@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor
In-Reply-To:  <199811101405.GAA01460@decibel.electriciti.com>

Academic citation styles include formats for letters and reviews. Medline
includes entries for both. Actually. Letters, especially in medical works,
get cited a lot. The material can be very important for researchers.

At 08:58 AM 11/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have been asked to index
>the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
>as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?
>Nell
>
>
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:01:47 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jennifer Young <youngjb@SLU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

-----Original Message-----
From:   Michael K. Smith [SMTP:mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET]

Gary Oldman was Dracula in
"Bram Stoker's Dracula" and numerous roles since then. Tim Roth plays in
definitely "different" films, esp things by the Coen Brothers' (like =
"The
Hudsucker Proxy"). Among other roles, Uma Thurman was Marcus's wife in =
"Pulp Fiction" (who OD-ed and had to be revived by a hypo to the heart).

---Actually, Tim Robbins was in "The Hudsucker Proxy."  But Tim Roth =
definitely does "different" films - he was also in "Pulp Fiction" as one =
of the robbers of the diner.  And incidentally, both Tim Roth and Gary =
Oldman were in the movie "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead."  =
Woo-hoo.

Jen
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennifer Young          Pius XII Memorial Library
Catalog Librarian       St. Louis University
youngjb@slu.edu           (314)977-3098

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BE0C88.C0177180--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:05:25 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carolyn Weaver <CGWeaver@AOL.COM>
Subject:      (no subject)

Do your BOB index in standard format.  Then once you're finished with it, do a
separate file "save as" in tab delimited format.  The tab delimited file can
easily be imported into Excel or a database program, where you can sort the
file and make the fields nicely line up in columns.  (I'm assuming we're
talking about Cindex for Windows; but it should work the same way with the DOS
version, as I recall.)

I just finished a retrospective journal index for which the client wanted both
a traditional file for the word processor and also a tab delimited file for
importing into Filemaker Pro for the Mac.  This process worked beautifully.
The only thing(s) you have to watch out for is that your columns are wide
enough for the content, and that you have the same number of fields in every
record.

Carolyn Weaver
Bellingham, WA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
Karin Arrigoni said:

I was wondering if there is any way that I can create one document in
CINDEX that can be sorted in two different ways.

What I'm trying to do is to create one regular back-of-the-book index,
and also another index-like document that sorts the courses by part
number and that contains several columns containing additional
information.  For example:

Part No.  Course Title                     Media Type       Page Number

15853     TCP/IP Fundamentals              Lecture/Lab      108
18857     Data Communications Concepts     ISP              125
20003     UNIX Basics                      CBT              101
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:15:25 +0000
Reply-To:     connolly@neca.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Daniel A. Connolly" <connolly@NECA.COM>
Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services
Subject:      mailing lists subscribed to

I'm interested in hearing from people what mailing lists they are subscribed
to for professional reasons (not personal interests, although that would be a
fascinating list as well). Any reasons why these lists are useful would be
great too. What type of work you do would be great too (freelance BOB indexer,
librarian, in-house, etc). I'll be happy to gather the info together and post
a summary to the list.

Dan
--

=========================================
Daniel A. Connolly
mailto:connolly@neca.com
WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services
www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com
Woodstock, CT, USA
=========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:10:13 +0000
Reply-To:     mil0409@ibm.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rebecca Miller <mil0409@IBM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Mail explosion

i did too: the deamon said the site didnt exist! Must be temp. technical
failure...
rebecca
mil0409@ibm.net

Lynn Moncrief wrote:

> Eeek! Is this happening to anyone else who's posted here? This doesn't seem
> to be the same type thing as the beserk automatic messages we discussed a
> few days ago. Yesterday I posted two messages here. I received two copies
> of a canned message about someone not receiving it at some remote site.
> Then, I received a copy of each of my posts from DSAA/MSGATEPO/POSTMASTER
>          <IMCEAMS-DSAA_MSGATEPO_POSTMASTER@osd.pentagon.mil>
>
> containing the text:[005] Mail retry count exceeded sending to:
>   EUCOM     /ODCGREECE
>
> Now having posted this, I'll probably receive two more canned messages.
>
> Lynn
>
> ***********************************
> Lynn Moncrief
> (techndex@pacbell.net)
> TECHindex & Docs
> Technical and Scientific Indexing
> ***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:09:02 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: (no subject)
In-Reply-To:  <199811101507.KAA24469@camel23.mindspring.com>

Actually, there is a setting in Cindex that makes sure your tab-delimited
output always has the same number of fields per record. It's always been in
the DOS version (FIELDS=), but you need to keep your Windows version
updated, as they added it later in one of their updaters (I think because
we asked for it - it's so nice to have responsive people programming your
software!). It's in the Save As options area.

That way, it doesn't matter if one of records is shorter or longer - it
adds in the blank fields as needed to make sure things line up.

Jan Wright

At 10:05 AM 11/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>Do your BOB index in standard format.  Then once you're finished with it,
do a
>separate file "save as" in tab delimited format.  The tab delimited file can
>easily be imported into Excel or a database program, where you can sort the
>file and make the fields nicely line up in columns.  (I'm assuming we're
>talking about Cindex for Windows; but it should work the same way with the
DOS
>version, as I recall.)
>
>I just finished a retrospective journal index for which the client wanted
both
>a traditional file for the word processor and also a tab delimited file for
>importing into Filemaker Pro for the Mac.  This process worked beautifully.
>The only thing(s) you have to watch out for is that your columns are wide
>enough for the content, and that you have the same number of fields in every
>record.
>
>Carolyn Weaver
>Bellingham, WA
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
>---------------------------
>Karin Arrigoni said:
>
>I was wondering if there is any way that I can create one document in
>CINDEX that can be sorted in two different ways.
>
>What I'm trying to do is to create one regular back-of-the-book index,
>and also another index-like document that sorts the courses by part
>number and that contains several columns containing additional
>information.  For example:
>
>Part No.  Course Title                     Media Type       Page Number
>
>15853     TCP/IP Fundamentals              Lecture/Lab      108
>18857     Data Communications Concepts     ISP              125
>20003     UNIX Basics                      CBT              101
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:20:31 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor

As a database indexer this is not strange at all.  The letters to the
editors are important and in some journals can be very long.  As for the
book reviews, many database do index them and usually have some type of tag
to identify them so that when people search the database they can bring up
all the book reviews.

If you look at Medline, many times following the title you will see [see
comments].  This means there are letters to the editor regarding the article
and further down the record is a field with the citation for the letters.
The letters are indexed separately and there is a field in Medline that says
Comment on and gives the citation back to the original article.

Roberta Horowitz
rhorowitz@acm.org

At 08:58 AM 11/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have been asked to index
>the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
>as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?
>Nell
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:20:15 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: encyclopedia of cities, Part II

<< commercial sectors
         Leeds (UK)
         Los Angeles (Calif.)
         Madrid (Spain) >>

I agree with Mike about pluralizing the main head. And parentheses are
definitely the graceful way to include helpful information. But since this is
a book about cities, I wouldn't include it unless, as he said, you have two
Toledos or other headings that need to be specified further, in which case I
would use the country in parentheses.
In general, I include helpful information like dates or countries when there
are only a few headings that need it. When it's every heading (an index chock-
full of historical events, for instance) I don't do it, because it looks too
cluttery. This is definitely a judgement call, though, and Mike's method is
fine too.

Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:24:43 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: odd house styles

<< I've been putting the darn colons and semicolons in by hand, and my eyes
are starting to unfocus... >>

Kara, which software are you using? You should at least be able to insert the
semicolon at the end of each subentry. You may not be able to create this
perfectly, because it's so nonstandard, but you should be able to do at least
part of it automatically.

Of course, Sharon is right that you may be able to talk them out of it. Good
luck!

Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:36:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: odd house styles

Regarding that odd house style:  Those of you (including me) who thought it
looked like a run-in style were correct.  They do use run-in style, but
they usually ask that the index be submitted (with run-in punctuation) in
indented style for easier copyediting... a fact they had neglected to make
clear to me.  All is now explained, and I've sent it off.  Many thanks for
your helpful comments.

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net

Wordsmith Indexing Services
8112 Harrison Dr.
King George, VA 22485
(540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:50:50 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kirstin Mercer <kirstin@CYBERCASH.COM>
Subject:      I'm sorry (in advance)

Is there a way to receive messages from this list in a digest format? I've
looked in the confirmation message you receive after subscribing, and I can't
find anything there...

Thanks!
Kirstin Mercer
Sr. Technical Editor
CyberCash, Inc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:52:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         marvant duhon <mduhon@BLUEMARBLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: New verbs
In-Reply-To:  <199811101030.FAA23845@shooter.bluemarble.net>

        The difference between unload and offload is relevant in the
military; it is complex but in a general way what is unloaded is
cargo that is passively removed whereas what is offloaded takes an active
roll. When I returned in a C-130 to Camp Lejeune after a very brief trip
abroad in 1984, I offloaded two spiffy new armored command vehicles that
had been left behind by their previous owners (the one I slept in on the
flight had plush indoor carpet wall to wall and even on the walls), but
the lumber samples were unloaded.
                                                Marvant Duhon
On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Christine Headley wrote:

> >From Christine Headley
>
> Jean Middleton wrote
>
>
> >You mention the  term *offlist* as a verb. When I first became a tech
> >writer in the aerospace business and heard they "offloaded the ship," I
> >thought that strange, but I got used to it. To me *unload* would have
> >sounded better. So I suppose we can be offlisted if we choose!
> >
> If someone 'offloaded', or maybe 'off-loaded' a ship, it would suggest to me
> that the ship was got rid of in some way, perhaps sold at a loss.
>
> Christine H
> Stroud, Glos
> <chps@globalnet.co.uk>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:58:58 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Business name

It's just as I suspected... the tax situation is completely different for
businesses in the US. I'm quite glad to live here in Canada -- "give me the
simple life!" An advantage of proprietorships (whether or not you use a name
other than your own) is that business losses can be deducted against
personal income. Wonderful for startups! Is that only in Canada? What a
pity!

I could have added that I have another reason not to use a business name
that includes my own name... what would I call it -- Welsh Editorial
Services? What's that, anyway? Editorial services, but only for Welsh
people? only in the Welsh language??? <g>

Cheers!
Kate

Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:37:10 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Business name
In-Reply-To:  <199811101721.MAA02481@mail2.bellsouth.net>

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Kate Welsh
|Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 11:59 PM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Re: Business name
|

        [snip]


|I could have added that I have another reason not to use a business name
|that includes my own name... what would I call it -- Welsh Editorial
|Services? What's that, anyway? Editorial services, but only for Welsh
|people? only in the Welsh language??? <g>
|
|Cheers!
|Kate
|
|Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
|Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
|Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies

How about "Red Dragon Indexing" (and use the version that appears on the
Welsh flag)? (...or, continuing down that path, I suppose there's also
"Bouquet of Leeks Indexing"...)

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:29:46 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         indexer@INETCOM.NET
Subject:      Chat:  Bookselling Question

I know there are at least a few other authors on here that may be able to
help me with a question that has vexed me for awhile.  Like many people I
have deep-rooted hangups about money and especially about things like
raising rates, asking for more money, etc. Since 1994 I've been selling a
self-published book I wrote on treasure hunting through direct mail sales
after targeted marketing and through 2 distributors of treasure books and
supplies.  Here are my questions:

1) Is there a "standard" schedule of wholesale discounts used by authors
which I can use to sell to individual dealers and my distributors?  You know
like 10 books, 30% off, 100 or more, 50% off, etc.  Is it unethical to
attempt to sell directly to dealers as a self-publisher?  I'm tempted to go
with the distributor's schedule so I'm not price competing but would that be
price fixing?  This doesn't become an issue with non-self-published works
since the distribution is handled by the publishing company.

2) To what extent if any are books that I send off free for marketing
purposes or donate to treasure hunting clubs tax deductible?  At full retail
(probably not) or at average wholesale perhaps, or at actual book cost?
Using the information gained in 1) I intend to launch a big marketing
campaign that hopefully will also provide some tax benefits.

Is there someone on a list for authors who could publish these questions for
me there or send me directions to subscribe?  Since this is not directly
related to indexing please "offlist me" and I'll summarize the results to
the list later.

Kevin Mulrooney

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dyslexics of the world untie!

First State Indexing            (302) 738-2558
276 East Main Street            Indexer@inetcom.net
Newark, Delaware 19711          http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:53:08 LCL
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject:      Re: odd house styles; & colons in indented indexes
In-Reply-To:  <199811100434.UAA02876@nccn.net>

At 11:31 PM 11/9/98 -0500, Kara Pekar wrote:
>
>I'm working on an index for a publisher with whom I haven't worked before.
>Their house style adds the punctuation of a run-in index to the structure
>of an indented index.  IOW:
>
>        bears:
>                brown, 2-4, 86;
>                grizzlies, 45-47;
>                surviving attacks of, 157.
>        camping, 62-63;
>                choosing a site, 49-51, 88;
>                equipment for, 45-48, 62, 79-84.
>                _See also_ commercial campsites
>
>First, is this really weird, or have I just not run across it before?
>Secondly, if I'm right that it is odd, what can I and what should I do
>about it? . . .

Kara, I think it would be good to offer your observations to the publisher.

Your query offers me the opportunity to restate my own preference for using
colons instead of commas between main headings and subheadings in indented
format, which I learned from Bella Hass Weinberg.

As Weinberg puts it, a colon enables us at a glance to differentiate main
headings composed of inverted terms from main heading--subheading
combinations in cases in which there is only a single subheading.

Names, of course, are the most common examples of inverted terms as main
headings, but we also choose to index terms in inverted rather than natural
language order sometimes when we think readers are more likely to look up
the noun than the modifier.

Using a comma to invert such terms and a colon to separate single
subheadings from main headings and single subsubheadings from subheadings,
etc., helps to make headings clear at a glance -- and is especially helpful
in entries composed of both an inverted main heading and a single
subheading + page refs, as in

        Pekar, Kara: house style query, 24

instead of

        Pekar, Kara, house style query, 24

I don't see why run-in style and indented style should be different in this
matter.  Indeed, is there any good reason they shouldn't be the same?

Quite a while ago I posted a message about this on Index-l, and I remember
seeing another post related to it (by Barbara Cohen, I think) that included
an example of the use of a colon after a main heading followed by multiple
indented subheadings, as you (Kara) show above.  In my reply to her I said
that I did not prefer to use a colon in this way, in addition to the usage
described above, but now I want to say that I've come around to it because
it too adds clarity.  How?  What I've noticed is that when a main heading
is long enough to reach all the way or almost all the way across the column
in which it's printed, a final colon helps make it clear that any
subsequent phrase on the next line is a subheading and not a continuation
of the main heading.

All the best,

Michael
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:40:16 -0800
Reply-To:     Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@mcn.org>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking

Sorry to prolong the off-topic stuff, but wasn't it Tim Roth who played the
lead in ^The Rocky Horror Picture Show^?!
Elinor
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:41:05 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Rhodes, Cathy" <Rhodesc@BRISCOENT.UTHSCSA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking

Tim Curry!
Cathy Rhodes

> ----------
> From:         Elinor Lindheimer[SMTP:elinorl@MCN.ORG]
> Reply To:     Elinor Lindheimer
> Sent:         Tuesday, November 10, 1998 1:40 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking
>
> Sorry to prolong the off-topic stuff, but wasn't it Tim Roth who played
> the
> lead in ^The Rocky Horror Picture Show^?!
> Elinor
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:03:44 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking-- still off topic

You might also remember Tim Roth as Liam Neeson's weasly little enemy in Rob
Roy.  I think he got an Academy Award nomination for that role.

-- Sharon W.
        x7255
        Rm. 223
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rhodes, Cathy [SMTP:Rhodesc@BRISCOENT.UTHSCSA.EDU]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 2:41 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking
>
> Tim Curry!
> Cathy Rhodes
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Elinor Lindheimer[SMTP:elinorl@MCN.ORG]
> > Reply To:     Elinor Lindheimer
> > Sent:         Tuesday, November 10, 1998 1:40 PM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking
> >
> > Sorry to prolong the off-topic stuff, but wasn't it Tim Roth who played
> > the
> > lead in ^The Rocky Horror Picture Show^?!
> > Elinor
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:29:48 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: odd house styles
In-Reply-To:  <199811100509.XAA00445@mixcom.mixcom.com>

>        bears:
>                brown, 2-4, 86;
>                grizzlies, 45-47;
>                surviving attacks of, 157.
>        camping, 62-63;
>                choosing a site, 49-51, 88;
>                equipment for, 45-48, 62, 79-84.
>                _See also_ commercial campsites

Yes, that looks very odd to me. I would tactfully ask the editor about
this, along these lines: "I reviewed your guidelines and was surprised to
see what looks like a combination of indented and run-in styles. I thought
I'd better ask whether that's the style you want me to follow or whether
this style guide is a bit outdated." Sometimes the style guide the editor
sends is pretty darn old, and she or he doesn't mean for you to follow it
to the letter. But you have to ask.

Then if the editor says to follow that style, follow it. It may look a
little cluttered, but there's really no harm done.

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com                | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:18:46 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Perhaps Not So Shocking
In-Reply-To:  <008b01be0ce1$f375a160$d70cbdcc@elinorl.mcn.org>

Hahaha NO. It was Tim Curry!!


>Sorry to prolong the off-topic stuff, but wasn't it Tim Roth who played the
>lead in ^The Rocky Horror Picture Show^?!
>Elinor


 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:10:33 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Joy Thomas <jthomas3@CSULB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor

<HTML>
Nell asked:
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have been asked to index
the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Strange it may be but I can tell you that it would be ENORMOUSLY helpful
to students and to the librarians who love them. ;-)&nbsp;

<P>--
<BR>Joy Thomas
<BR>Social Sciences Librarian
<BR>California State University, Long Beach
<BR>562 985-7817
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:33:05 -0800
Reply-To:     Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Bonny McLaughlin <Bonny.McLaughlin@CGU.EDU>
Organization: cgs.edu
Subject:      ASI SoCal December 5 program

ASI-SoCAL  invites you to attend:  Revisiting the Book Index,
            a presentation by Nancy Mulvany

Saturday, December 5, 1998 at 11:30 AM
Frank Miller Room, The Mission Inn, Riverside, CA

This will be the first public presentation in the United States of an
exciting new technology built around "index-based searching." The
presentation will begin with an overview of the publishing industry in
English-speaking countries with particular emphasis on the American book

publishing industry. As more publishers and book sellers utilize the
Internet for book sales, the book index emerges as a stellar marketing
tool that enables customers to choose between competing titles.

Nancy Mulvany will present an overview of this new technology developed
by IndexLogic. The adoption of this technology will greatly impact the
book
indexing profession. Already steps have been taken to standardize the
display of indexes online. Mulvany will discuss the "tickle-down" effect

of this standardization on print-based indexes. Other issues she will
cover
include copyright and editorial control of indexes.

Nancy Mulvany is the author of _Indexing Books_ (University of Chicago
Press, 1994) and owner of Bayside Indexing Service (Kensington, CA). She

has taught indexing courses for over ten years, has served as president
of the American Society of Indexers, and is currently Associate Editor
of
_The Indexer_. She can be reached by email at
nmulvany@bayside-indexing.com.

A buffet luncheon will be served. Our below-cost charge
is $15 for ASI members, $18 for nonmembers

Directions to the meeting location are given on the form below.

Please print out and return the form below, with your check made
out to ASI SoCal, by November 27,  to:

Debbie Lindblom
2031-11 S. Mountain Ave.
Ontario, CA, 91762.
Alindblom@aol.com

Thanks very much. We hope to see you in Riverside.

*********************************************************************
 Registration Form for Revisiting the Book Index

 (Please print out and send, by November 27,  with your
check for $15 (ASI members) or $18 (nonmembers),
made out to ASI SoCal, to Debbie Lindblom,
2031-11 So. Mountain Ave., Ontario, CA, 91762)

Please register ______ persons to attend the December 5
ASI SoCal program and luncheon

Name(s)___________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________

Address___________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________

Phone___________________   E-Mail_____________________


Directions:  The Mission Inn is located at 3649 Mission Inn Avenue,
Riverside. Telephone:  909-784-0300. For reservations, call
800-843-7755.

>From Ontario/LA:  10 East to 15 South (San Diego) to 60 East
(Riverside)
to 91 West. Exit  Mission Inn Avenue.
>From Orange County:  91 East (Riverside), exit University/Downtown,
    left on Mission Inn Avenue.
>From San Diego:  15 North to 91 East (Riverside), exit
University/Downtown,  left on Mission Inn Avenue.
>From Palm Springs:  10 West to 60 West to 91 West, exit Mission Inn
Avenue.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:35:03 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Parrish <AParrsh@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor

Nell Benton writes: "I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have
been asked to index
the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?"

Usually the letters published in such journals are serious participants in a
scholarly conversation.  A user of the index would perhaps be as grateful to
encounter the letters commenting on an article as she is to find the article.
Book reviews, written by experts in the area of the books they are reviewing,
often include substantive facts or opinions not easily  found elsewhere.  At
least that has been my experience.

(I have never edited a scholarly journal, alas, but I have read a humongous
number of them!  And I spend at least as much time reading the book reviews as
I spend plowing through the featured articles.)

Ann Parrish
Parrish Professional Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:05:59 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Truesdale <Anntrue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Business name

In a message dated 11/9/98 3:58:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET writes:
Kara wrote:    (snip)
>
>  {All my comments apply to the US.]  An additional benefit of incorporation:
>  my accountant suggests that the tax benefits [of incorporation] make it
>  worthwhile for, say, $15,000 per year in gross income.  I suspect that may
>  vary somewhat from state to state.  I haven't incorporated yet, but I
>  haven't ruled out doing so in the future.  Anyone considering incorporation
>  should check with one or more financial/tax experts to see whether the
>  benefits outweigh the costs.
>
I think the real downside with incorporation is the cost to set it up, which
can be substantial. Also, the bookkeeping required is more complicated. I ran
my veterinary clinic as dba (and carried lots of liability insurance!) even
though I had several employees, & sold products which required sales tax
collection as well as my services. If I had taken in a partner, or needed some
special retirement account set up, or some such, I would have needed to
incorporate. My husband is a CPA & he said incorporation would be an
unnecessary and expensive option (even grossing $250,000).

As far as registering as a dba - I don't think you have to in SC. The state
veterinary assoc. requires a name be OK'd (if not the owner's name) to avoid
duplications, but I don't know of anything else. I did not even have a
business license for several years (!) since I was not within city limits &
county was pretty lax. They picked us up from other records after a while &
started sending me a bill -- the hubby said there was no penalty, or even back
payment required, so why not just wait until they found us! Made me nervous,
but no problems ensued. I *definitely* would not assume this would work
anywhere else, but just use it to illustrate the vagaries of the law in
different areas.

Ann Truesdale   (anntrue@aol.com)
Yonges Island, SC

**************************************************************
 If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool
 came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:43:21 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" <dwindex@LOUISA.NET>
Subject:      Arabic names

I am indexing multi-authored  book full of Arabic names. Authors often use
variants of a name, (Faisal in one article, `Abd al-`Aziz in another,
Al-Sa`ud in yet another, all seeming to refer to the same ruler of Saudi
Arabia).  Does anyone have any leads on a website that might help?  The
Webster's Biographical Dictionary isn't helping;  Faisal is listed as
Faysal ibn `Abd al-`Aziz ibn `Abd ar-Rahman al-Sa`ud.  Now that I've
figured out that they are all the same person I am still unsure as to how
to alphabetize him!

Paula C. Durbin-Westby
dwindex@louisa.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:47:55 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nancy Guenther <nanguent@CHESCO.COM>
Subject:      SKY macros online
In-Reply-To:  <199811062013.PAA09455@carriage.chesco.com>

<html>
<font size=3>Hi,<br>
<br>
I've recently created my own business web site (my local ISP won't allow
publicizing my business on my personal home page beyond a resume). As
part of the site I've created a page providing macros I've created for
use in SKY Index. I'd welcome suggestions from others about other ways of
using this feature in SKY.<br>
<br>
My business site:
<a href="http://www.bcity.com/guenther"
 eudora="autourl">http://www.bcity.com/guenther</a><br>
SKY macros page:
<a href="http://www.bcity.com/guenther/skymacros.html"
 eudora="autourl">http://www.bcity.com/guenther/skymacros.html</a><br>
<br>
Nancy Guenther<br>
nanguent@chesco.com</font>
<BR>
</html>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:49:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Eileen Lutzow <LUTZOWE@CHARLESTON.LIB.SC.US>
Subject:      Use of word "listserv"

On Mon., Nov. 9, Kate Welsh said:

> I might not want to see this verb in formal writing, but it
>seems perfectly appropriate to a listserv.

Forgive the delay in responding to this.  I receive the list in digest
mode and waited to see if anyone else jumped in first.

Since this list worries about the appropriate use of words, I thought
I'd mention that using "listserv" in this manner is akin to using
"kleenex" or "xerox" -- commonly done, but not technically legal.
Listserv(R) is a registered trademark name for the software that *runs*
electronic discussion lists.  There are several brands of software that
could be used, with Listserv(R) being the one used by INDEX-L (and my
other list, AUTOCAT).  Some alternative suggestions made on AUTOCAT for
the mail managed by Listserv(R) and other brands of software were:
electronic discussion list, e-list, e-mail list, list, electronic mail
list, and several others which I've forgotten.

Basically, the crux of the argument was that an electronic discussion
list is not the same as Listserv(R) software, and using the terms
interchangably is both incorrect and illegal.  (I'm sure you've seen the
ads from Xerox defending their legal rights to the word "xerox" and
suggesting the use of "photocopy" instead.)

I'll also mention that it was the listowners of AUTOCAT who started the
discussion, and ultimately forbade further use of "listserv" on
AUTOCAT.  The American Library Association also recently made a
statement that all articles and publications from them and their various
sub-associations were forbidden to use the word "listserv" unless
discussing the particular software Listserv(R).  There was also
discussion of changing the Library of Congress subject headings and
cross-references which use the word "listserv."  If anyone wants to
review the AUTOCAT discussion on this topic, which was *quite* lengthy
and occurred within the last month, I'll be happy to send you details on
how to access the list's archives on the Web.  "Offlist" me, though, or
I won't see it till tomorrow.

Since I was totally unaware of this distinction and have been known to
use the word myself, I thought I'd share this tidbit.  Now the word
"listserv" can jump out at *you* whenever you see it too.


Eileen Lutzow
Cataloger
Charleston County Library
Charleston, SC, USA
lutzowe@charleston.lib.sc.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:49:55 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Pray tell, how can I subscribe to autocat?

Many thanks,

M. Jessie Barczak
Research Analyst
Powell Tate Washington
202-434-8533
jbarczak@washington.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eileen Lutzow [SMTP:LUTZOWE@CHARLESTON.LIB.SC.US]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 9:49 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Use of word "listserv"
>
> On Mon., Nov. 9, Kate Welsh said:
>
> > I might not want to see this verb in formal writing, but it
> >seems perfectly appropriate to a listserv.
>
> Forgive the delay in responding to this.  I receive the list in digest
> mode and waited to see if anyone else jumped in first.
>
> Since this list worries about the appropriate use of words, I thought
> I'd mention that using "listserv" in this manner is akin to using
> "kleenex" or "xerox" -- commonly done, but not technically legal.
> Listserv(R) is a registered trademark name for the software that *runs*
> electronic discussion lists.  There are several brands of software that
> could be used, with Listserv(R) being the one used by INDEX-L (and my
> other list, AUTOCAT).  Some alternative suggestions made on AUTOCAT for
> the mail managed by Listserv(R) and other brands of software were:
> electronic discussion list, e-list, e-mail list, list, electronic mail
> list, and several others which I've forgotten.
>
> Basically, the crux of the argument was that an electronic discussion
> list is not the same as Listserv(R) software, and using the terms
> interchangably is both incorrect and illegal.  (I'm sure you've seen the
> ads from Xerox defending their legal rights to the word "xerox" and
> suggesting the use of "photocopy" instead.)
>
> I'll also mention that it was the listowners of AUTOCAT who started the
> discussion, and ultimately forbade further use of "listserv" on
> AUTOCAT.  The American Library Association also recently made a
> statement that all articles and publications from them and their various
> sub-associations were forbidden to use the word "listserv" unless
> discussing the particular software Listserv(R).  There was also
> discussion of changing the Library of Congress subject headings and
> cross-references which use the word "listserv."  If anyone wants to
> review the AUTOCAT discussion on this topic, which was *quite* lengthy
> and occurred within the last month, I'll be happy to send you details on
> how to access the list's archives on the Web.  "Offlist" me, though, or
> I won't see it till tomorrow.
>
> Since I was totally unaware of this distinction and have been known to
> use the word myself, I thought I'd share this tidbit.  Now the word
> "listserv" can jump out at *you* whenever you see it too.
>
>
> Eileen Lutzow
> Cataloger
> Charleston County Library
> Charleston, SC, USA
> lutzowe@charleston.lib.sc.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:56:33 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
Subject:      Index in _How to Cook Everything_

Did anyone in this group by any chance index _How to Cook Everything_ by
Mark Bittman. It is reviewed today in the Minneapolis _StarTribune,_ and the
reviewer raves about the helpfulness of the  index!

Carol Kennedy
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:22:03 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Index in _How to Cook Everything_

Carol Kennedy wrote:

<Did anyone in this group by any chance index _How to Cook Everything_ by
Mark Bittman. It is reviewed today in the Minneapolis _StarTribune,_ and the
reviewer raves about the helpfulness of the  index!

Carol, I'd be most grateful if you could let me have a copy of the review,
or just the part referring to the index along with the publication details
of the book, to quote in the "Indexes reviewed" feature of The Indexer.

Sorry to trouble you.

Christine

************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB, UK
e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk
****************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:41:38 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      ASI Call for 1999 Nominations

Hello all ASI members,

Please take a look at the ASI website at http://www.ASIndexing.org for
information on the 1999 ASI board elections. Once you are in the site, click
on News, and then go to Nominations....

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Chair, Nominations Committee, 1999 elections
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:05:18 -0500
Reply-To:     varney@mindspring.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         J Flenner <varney@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Index in _How to Cook Everything_

This is from StarTribune's page regarding copyright
<http://www.startribune.com/stonline/html/userguide/copyright.html>:

> To obtain permission to reuse or republish electronically any material =
copyrighted by the
>                            Star Tribune, please send an e-mail message =
to roberts@startribune.com or write to
>                            Robert Schafer, publisher, startribune.com, =
425 Portland Av. S., Minneapolis, MN
>                            55488-0002. For permission to reuse or repub=
lish Star Tribune copyrighted material in
>                            printed formats, contact Rodgers Adams in th=
e Newsroom at 425 Portland Av. S.,
>                            Minneapolis MN 55488-0002.
>



 Cookbook review: Want to know h
http://www.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisStory=3D55727946


Published Wednesday, November 11, 1998

Cookbook review: Want to know how to cook everything?

Al Sicherman / Star Tribune


*  "How to Cook Everything," by Mark Bittman (Macmillan, $25).

The title of this 944-page book sounds like a pretty tall order, but
when you toss in the subtitle, "Simple Recipes for Great Food," it
begins to seem possible -- and, in a way, better.

It is very much a cookbook that a beginner can use, although it is also
a cookbook that an experienced cook would use and enjoy. Bittman's
approach, somewhat reflective of his New York Times column, "The
Minimalist," is to offer basic information, plus techniques, where
appropriate, followed by basic recipes plus variations, and, in many
cases, lists of possible alternate dishes or accompaniments for which
the recipes are in the book.

The poultry chapter, for example, contains basic information including
illustrations for sectioning, boning and carving procedures, and more
than 60 recipes for chicken, turkey, capon, Cornish hen, goose, duck,
squab, quail and pheasant -- most with variations -- plus these helpful
lists: "Four simple ways to flavor roast chicken," "12 simple additions
to stir-fried chicken," "25 chicken dishes good cold or at room
temperature," "13 poultry dishes you can reheat" and "29 crowd-pleasing
Thanksgiving dishes you may not have thought of."

As an example of the variations, Bittman's basic recipe for grilled or
broiled chicken cutlets includes nine detailed variants.

That approach is offered at numerous other places in the book: Armed
with this recipe, here are some ways to alter it, or some other things
you can do with it. Bittman says that he enjoys finding and pointing out
the patterns in recipes, and it's a bonus that should delight cooks
looking to get the most out of each recipe they try.

Discovering cooking ability

Helping people discover their ability to cook instead of to reheat is
important to Bittman. "I feel somewhat zealous about preserving the
craft of cooking," he said. "Food matters."

"Convenience food isn't all that convenient," he said, adding that he
feels that the hardest and most time-consuming part of cooking is going
to the supermarket.

None of this is meant to say that the book doesn't contain plenty of
"fancy" or "interesting" recipes, just that its focus is the basics.
Tiramisu and stir-fried squid are here, for example, but so is how to
make popcorn. And the book's basic recipe for mashed potatoes does not
contain garlic or horseradish.

One of the best features of "How to Cook Everything" is its extremely
user-friendly index, which occupies 53 pages. The recipe for
apple-raisin bread pudding is indexed under "apple-raisin bread
pudding," "bread pudding, apple-raisin," and "pudding, bread,
apple-raisin." If "How to Cook Everything" seemed like a great cookbook
gift before I saw the index, that pushed me over the edge.
=A9 Copyright 1998 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:01:21 -0400
Reply-To:     lfs7@erols.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Loraine Schacher <lfs7@EROLS.COM>
Organization: Editor, Writer, Indexer
Subject:      Re: Index in _How to Cook Everything_

Thanks for sending the review; I think you probably just helped sell
some cookbooks!

Congratulations to the indexer, and also to the publisher for allowing
so many pages (53!!); I did a cookbook last year were I was limited to
two pitiful pages--very inadequate.

Loraine S.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:54 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "J. Naomi Linzer" <jnlinzer@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: encyclopedia of cities, Part II
In-Reply-To:  <199811100807.AAA25928@neti.saber.net>

Ilana, based on USDA Lesson 6 which I just got back corrected this is my
shot at your queries:

>I'm seeking suggestions (but I know the responses will vary).
>
>Part I

Houston (TX), 344-349
   Museum of Art, 348
   Museum of Science, 348
   Public Library, 348
   University of Texas at, 349
   University and Science Institute, 349

>
>Do I:
>a) get rid of all of the Houston entries beneath Houston, Texas?
>If so, then what about consistency...meaning what about the headings

University of Texas, XXX
    at Houston, XX

>Part II
>
>How far is far enough when helping the user?

commercial sectors
   Leeds, England, 33
   Los Angeles (CA), 144
   Madrid, Spain, 44

Thanks for the question,
Naomi

********************************************************************************
Ms. J. Naomi Linzer
Indexing Services
POB 1341
Redway, CA  95560
(707) 923-4361
jnlinzer@saber.net
********************************************************************************
*******
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:34:05 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Maro Riofrancos <riofrancos@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: Index in _How to Cook Everything_

I did the index.

53 pages isn't that long for a 944-page cookbook. If you want to see a
really long cookbook index, take a look at the one for the 892-page The New
Doubleday Cookbook, also indexed by yours truly (1975 and 1985 editions).
That one is 72 pages, with a smaller typeface--more than 15,000 lines.

Maro Riofrancos
Riofrancos & Co. Indexes
290 Riverside Drive
New York, NY 10025
212.864.2121

----------
>From: Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>Subject: Index in _How to Cook Everything_
>Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998, 10:56 AM
>

>Did anyone in this group by any chance index _How to Cook Everything_ by
>Mark Bittman. It is reviewed today in the Minneapolis _StarTribune,_ and the
>reviewer raves about the helpfulness of the  index!
>
>Carol Kennedy
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:44:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Julie Moore Crowley <crowley@LAW.STETSON.EDU>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: Use of word "listserv"

>>Pray tell, how can I subscribe to autocat?
>>
>>Many thanks,
>>
>>M. Jessie Barczak
>>Research Analyst
>>Powell Tate Washington
>>202-434-8533
>>jbarczak@washington.com


Hi Jessie!

Here is some info about AUTOCAT.  Instructions on getting onto AUTOCAT are
contained in this document (#6).

Hope you enjoy AUTOCAT as much as I do!!

Julie Moore Crowley
Stetson Law
St. Petersburg, FL


AUTOCAT FAQ

     Conventions used:
          UPPER CASE: Commands are given in all upper case to
          make them stand out but in reality case is irrelevant;
          you can use upper case, lower case, or a combination.

          Angle brackets < > are used to indicate a generic term
          that needs to be replaced with specific wording, e.g.,
          SEARCH <search argument> IN AUTOCAT <date argument>,
          e.g., SEARCH (CONGRESS OR LC) AND (CLASSIF* NOT
          (SUBJECT OR LCSH)) IN AUTOCAT SINCE 96/12/23

     LIST OF FREQUENTLY-ASKED QUESTIONS
1.   What is Autocat?
2.   Whom do I contact when I have a problem related to the list?
3.   How do I send a message to the list to be distributed to all
     subscribers?
4.   Can non-subscribers send messages to Autocat?
5.   Are messages from subscribers reviewed prior to being
     distributed?
6.   To what address should I send a subscription request or a
     command to change the status of my subscription?
7.   Do I have to use special wording or syntax to issue a
     command to LISTSERV?
8.   I don't want individual copies of each item posted to AUTOCAT,
     would rather have the day's items compiled.  Can I do that? How?
9.   I am interested in reading only a small number of Autocat
     messages each day and don't want to have to go through a
     full Digest or all the individual mail messages.  Is there
     any way I can get a list of messages distributed daily from
     which I can then select those that seem of interest to me?
10.  If I wish to stop receiving Autocat for a brief period
     (because I am away from the library for holiday, conference
     attendance, sickness, etc.) do I need to unsubscribe from
     Autocat?
11.  If I set Autocat to NOMAIL how do I resume receiving it?
12.  What are some of the Autocat default options?
13.  How do I find out what my subscription options are?
14.  Can I get a list of the Autocat subscribers?
15.  Is there a way I can find out if there was previous
     discussion of a topic of interest to me in Autocat?
16.  What do I receive in response to an archives search?
17.  Does Autocat maintain files?
18.  If I want to issue several commands to LISTSERV can I
     include them all in one message or do I need to send a
     separate message for each?
19.  What kind of problems can occur with my subscription and
     what are their solutions?
20.  How do I subscribe to Autocat?
21.  How do I get off Autocat?
22.  Are there any regulations regarding what I can send or how I
     should send it; i.e., what is the appropriate Netiquette?



1.   What is Autocat?

     A.   Autocat is a semi-moderated electronic discussion list
          running on LISTSERV(R) software.  It is an
          international list devoted to the topics of library
          cataloging and authority control.  It was founded in
          October 1990 by Nancy Keane at the University of
          Vermont, passed on to Brenda Hutchins at the same
          institution, and in April 1993 moved to the University
          at Buffalo (SUNY) when Judith Hopkins became listowner.

2.   Whom do I contact when I have a problem related to the list?

     A.   Autocat has two listowners who can answer your specific
          questions relating to Autocat operations and features,
          including problems with your subscription status.  If
          you have such questions send a PRIVATE e-mail message
          to either or both of them; do NOT send such messages to
          Autocat itself.

          The listowners are: (preferred address given first)
               Judith Hopkins      ulcjh@acsu.buffalo.edu
                                   ulcjh@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
               Douglas Winship     winship@tenet.edu
                                   dwinship@acsu.buffalo.edu

3.   How do I send a message to the list to be distributed to all
     subscribers?

     A.   Address such messages to:
          AUTOCAT@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU

4.   Can non-subscribers send messages to Autocat?

     A.   Yes; but messages from non-subscribers are first
          detoured to one of the listowners (usually Douglas
          Winship) to be approved for appropriateness before
          being forwarded to the list.  Non-appropriate messages
          are those outside the scope of the list, subscription-
          related messages that were mis-addressed, etc.  Such
          messages are discarded. (If the message related to an
          individual subscription the listowner performs the
          desired action).   If the listowner determines the
          message is appropriate it is forwarded to the list
          without modification.  In rare cases when the message
          does not seem clear the listowner may return it to the
          poster asking that it be clarified.

5.   Are messages from subscribers reviewed prior to being
     distributed?

     A.   No; messages from subscribers are distributed directly
          without any human intervention.  This distinction,
          between the treatment given to messages from
          subscribers and those from non-subscribers is what is
          meant by "semi-moderation", only those from non-
          subscribers are sent to a listowner acting as
          moderator.  (See also answer to question 12)

6.   To what address should I send a subscription request or a
     command to change the status of my subscription?

     A.   Address such commands to:
          LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU

          Messages sent to this address do not need a subject
          line.

7.   Do I have to use special wording or syntax to issue a
     command to LISTSERV?

     A.   Yes to both parts of the question.  Since LISTSERV is a
          program it can only implement commands that are sent to
          it using specified wording in a specified syntax.

          The usual syntax is:  command listname option
                         e.g.,  SET     AUTOCAT  NOMAIL

8.   Instead of receiving multiple messages from Autocat each day
     I prefer to receive only one, that contains the full text of
     all messages distributed during that day.  Is there any way
     I can do that?

     A.   Yes; send LISTSERV the command SET AUTOCAT DIGEST

9.   I am interested in reading only a small number of Autocat
     messages each day and don't want to have to go through a
     full Digest or all the individual mail messages.  Is there
     any way I can get a list of messages distributed daily from
     which I can then select those that seem of interest to me?

     A.   Yes; send LISTSERV the command SET AUTOCAT INDEX

          Each day you will be sent a list of the subject lines
          of that day's messages with instructions on how to
          retrieve those of interest to you.

10.  If I wish to stop receiving Autocat for a brief period
     (because I am away from the library for holiday, conference
     attendance, sickness, etc.) do I need to unsubscribe from
     Autocat?

     A.   No; you can temporarily suspend delivery of your
          Autocat mail by sending the SET AUTOCAT NOMAIL command
          to the LISTSERV address given in no. 6 above.

11.  If I set Autocat to NOMAIL how do I resume receiving it?

     A.   Send LISTSERV the command SET AUTOCAT MAIL

          This command works whether or not you are set to
          receive individual mail messages (MAIL), a DIGEST, or
          an INDEX.  It will cause the resumption of delivery in
          the format you had previously set.

12.  What are some of the Autocat default options?

     REPRO     This means that if you send a message to Autocat
               you will receive a copy of that message as part of
               your subscription.   If you prefer not to receive
               copies of your own messages you can change this
               option by sending LISTSERV the command SET AUTOCAT
               NOREPRO; however we strongly urge that you retain
               the default option since that enables you to be
               sure your message was distributed.

     REVIEW    This means that your messages are first sent to a
               listowner to be reviewed for appropriateness.
               After you post your first appropriate message
               after you subscribe, the listowner will change the
               option to NOREVIEW and all future messages that
               you post will be distributed directly without
               human review.  Only a listowner can change this
               option.

13.  How do I find out what my subscription options are?

     A.   Send LISTSERV the message QUERY AUTOCAT

14.  Can I get a list of the Autocat subscribers?

     A.   No.  Because of concerns about the privacy of
          subscribers (and to prevent the subscription list from
          falling into the hands of spammers) only a listowner
          can get a copy of the subscription list.  If you need a
          copy or the address of someone you believe to be a
          subscriber, ask one of the listowners.

          However you can get a copy of the Autocat header which
          shows how the list is configured, gives the names and
          addresses of the listowners, and gives the number of
          subscribers per country.  To obtain the header send
          LISTSERV the command REVIEW AUTOCAT BY COUNTRY

15.  Is there a way I can find out if there was previous
     discussion of a topic of interest to me in Autocat?

     A.   Yes.  All Autocat messages starting in January 1991 are
          archived and can be retrieved by doing a keyword
          search.  Send LISTSERV a SEARCH command using the
          following syntax:
          SEARCH <search arguments> IN AUTOCAT <date limitations>

          The Search Arguments segment (without the brackets)
          supports truncation, Boolean logic, and nesting within
          parentheses.  WARNING:  Since the words AUTOCAT,
          LIBRARY, CATALOGING, and AUTHORITIES appear in the
          header of all messages posted to the Autocat list, do
          NOT search on them or on truncated roots of those words
          since they will retrieve every message in the archives.
          However, while the words CATALOG* or CATALOGING should
          not be used, the words CATALOGER or CATALOGER* are
          acceptable since they do not appear in the header.

          To obtain all messages posted on a specific day or days
          regardless of subject, use the wildcard * as the search
          argument, e.g., SEARCH * IN AUTOCAT <date limitations>

          The Date Limitations segment (without the brackets) is
          optional except when you are doing a wildcard search.
          Dates must be given in the form YY/MM/DD

          To search all messages posted after a certain date use:
               SINCE YY/MM/DD,  e.g.,  SINCE 96/07/14

          To search all messages posted prior to a certain date
          use: TO YY/MM/DD,  e.g.,  TO 94/05/13

          To search all messages posted for a specific date use:
          FOR YY/MM/DD, e.g., FOR 97/01/06

          To search all messages posted within a specific time
          period use: FROM YY/MM/DD TO YY/MM/DD, e.g., FROM
          96/12/25 TO 97/01/02

16.  What do I receive in response to an archives search?

     A.   LISTSERV will send you an index containing the subject
          lines and examples of the use of your search terms in
          the messages retrieved, plus instructions on how to
          obtain the full text of the messages that seem relevant
          to you.

17.  Does Autocat maintain files?

     A.   Yes.  There are two (2) types of files maintained by
          Autocat:  1) Logs, usually roughly weekly in length, of
          all messages posted to Autocat from 1991 to the current
          day.  These form the archives database and may be
          searched as described above.  2) Reports and other
          documents that were too long to post as mail messages.
          These latter may be stored temporarily, e.g., reports
          of ALA meetings are usually posted for six months until
          replaced by reports from a later meeting.  These cannot
          be searched using the database search mechanism.

          Each file has a name that consists of two parts, a
          filename proper and a so-called filetype.  To obtain a
          list of the currently available files send LISTSERV the
          message INDEX AUTOCAT.  To obtain a specific file,
          whether a whole weekly log or a document or other
          report, send LISTSERV the command GET <filename>
          <filetype>, e.g. GET AUTOCAT FAQ or GET AUTOCAT
          LOG9401B

18.  If I want to issue several commands to LISTSERV can I
     include them all in one message or do I need to send a
     separate message for each?

     A.   You can include them all in the same message; however
          each command must be on a separate line, e.g.,
          QUERY AUTOCAT
          SET AUTOCAT NOMAIL

          You can get a brief list of all available commands by
          sending LISTSERV the single word command HELP while a
          fuller explanation of the commands can be obtained by
          sending the command INFO REFCARD to LISTSERV.

19.  What kind of problems can occur with my subscription and
     what are their solutions?

     A.   The major problems are 1) the subscriber is unable to
          manage his or her subscription, and 2) the list mail
          fails to reach the subscriber.

          1)   If you send a command to LISTSERV and get back the
               response that you are not a subscriber, that
               usually means that your e-mail address has changed
               and no longer matches the one under which you
               subscribed.   The change may have occurred months
               earlier but you were unaware of it because your
               computing center had provided a forward link
               between your old address and the new one, thus
               making the change invisible when you receive mail.
               It is only when you attempt to send a command to
               LISTSERV, which requires an exact match between
               your return address and that shown in the Autocat
               subscription list before it will implement your
               command, that the change becomes obvious.

               If you can still access the earlier account, logon
               to it and unsubscribe from Autocat (see question
               21 below) then logon to your new account and
               subscribe again to Autocat.  The order in which
               you perform these steps is immaterial.

               If your old account is no longer accessible send a
               message to one of the listowners (see question 2
               above for addresses), tell them your address has
               changed, and ask them to delete your old
               subscription.  Subscribe to Autocat from your new
               account.

          2)   Every day some messages distributed to Autocat
               fail to reach one or more subscribers.  This
               failure occurs for a variety of reason: the
               subscriber has a full mailbox which cannot accept
               any new mail, the subscriber's local computing
               center is experiencing hardware or software
               difficulties, there is a problem somewhere on the
               route between LISTSERV in Buffalo and the
               subscriber's site, the subscriber no longer has an
               account on the local host, etc.

               While private messages that cannot be delivered
               are returned to the poster, undeliverable list
               mail is returned to the listowner and not to the
               poster.  (Some mailers are improperly configured
               and cause such errors to be sent to the poster.
               If you receive such an error message forward it to
               the listowner at the address shown in the next
               paragraph and then discard it).

               Autocat has a special mailbox to which error
               messages are sent: AUTOERRS@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU.  One
               of the listowners monitors that mailbox daily.  If
               there are only a few error messages related to a
               specific subscription address, the listowner
               assumes that the problem, whatever it was, was a
               brief one and is now over.  The listowner
               therefore ignores those error messages.

               If, however, there are numerous error messages
               emanating from a specific address, the listowner
               must take action to prevent being flooded with
               error messages related to that subscription.  The
               listowner's options, in terms of decreasing
               severity, are to delete the subscription, to set
               it to nomail, or to set it to digest.  The Autocat
               listowners prefer to use the least severe
               treatment, setting the troubled subscription to
               digest, before having to resort to deleting the
               subscription.

               The advantage to this approach for the listowner
               is that the problem subscription will now only
               generate one error a day as long as the problem
               continues.  For the subscriber, the advantage is
               that he or she will start receiving the digest as
               soon as the problem has been cleared up.

               When the listowner changes your distribution
               option to Digest a message of notification will be
               sent to you but it will probably bounce and
               generate an error message in its turn.  The only
               sign you will have of a problem is a period in
               which you haven't received any Autocat mail
               followed by sudden receipt of a Digest.

               What should you do if you suddenly find yourself
               receiving a digest that you have not requested?
               Send LISTSERV the command SET AUTOCAT MAIL

20.  How do I subscribe to Autocat?

     A.   Send LISTSERV the command SUBSCRIBE AUTOCAT
          <Myfirstname> <Mylastname>, e.g.,
          SUBSCRIBE AUTOCAT Janet L Doe

          Note: the abbreviate SUB is acceptable

          You will be asked to confirm your subscription.  Follow
          the instructions given within 48 hours or your
          subscription request will be cancelled.  This CONFIRM
          step serves two purposes: 1) it ensures that no-one
          else can subscribe you to a list without your
          knowledge; and 2) it confirms that mail can reach you
          at the e-mail address from which you sent your
          subscription request.

21.  How do I get off Autocat?

     A.   Send LISTSERV the command UNSUB AUTOCAT

22.  Are there any regulations regarding what I can send or how I
     should send it; i.e., what is the appropriate Netiquette?

     A.   Use your common sense and the general rules you would
          use in any correspondence.  Some specific points:
     1.   Provide a SPECIFIC subject line for your message, e.g.,
          not HELP! but rather:  DEWEY CLASSIFICATION QUESTION;
          not JOB POSTING but JOB POSTING IN CALIFORNIA PUBLIC
          LIBRARY

     2.   Include your signature at the end of your message,
          giving at least your name and affiliation and e-mail
          address.   While the poster's name may appear in the
          FROM line of the header on messages you receive, that
          does not mean that everyone else's mailer works in the
          same way; some institutional implementations give only
          minimal header information, showing the listname but
          not the name of the poster.

     3.   Be sure to use the appropriate address.  Be careful not
          to send a message to Autocat when you intended to reply
          only to the individual who posted a message or a
          command intended for LISTSERV to Autocat.

     4.   Be careful of your spelling and grammar.  Your message
          is going out to some 3,000 people, some of whom may be
          your future employers!

     5.   Do not post anything you would not be willing to see on
          the front page of your local newspaper.  As a
          corollary, when replying to a survey, send it to the
          original poster, not to Autocat.

     6.   When replying to a message provide a BRIEF context to
          your answer.  Avoid the extremes of quoting the entire
          message or saying nothing about the original message.
          Either quote a few relevant sentences or paraphrase the
          essential bits of the part of the question you are
          answering.

     7.   The dividing line between acceptable and unacceptable
          commercial messages is rather fuzzy.  If someone asks
          for information about a service or product that your
          organization provides, it is OK to respond with a brief
          message saying you have product A that is available for
          such a price.  Identify a contact person, phone number,
          and/or e-mail address to which those interested can
          send for additional information.

          If your organization has come out with a new product or
          service that would be of interest to the subscribers of
          Autocat, a brief announcement with contact person
          identification is acceptable.

          In case of doubt about whether something is acceptable
          or not, send it to one of the listowners to examine
          before posting it.

     8.   Stay within the scope of Autocat as delineated in
          question 1.  Messages related to other aspects of
          librarianship or otherwise unrelated to cataloging
          should be avoided or posted very rarely.  Such messages
          should be introduced by the word CHAT: in the subject
          line.   Humorous or otherwise light or peripheral
          messages have, by custom, been posted on Fridays.


Julie Moore Crowley
Cataloger
Stetson University College of Law
1401 61st St. S.
St. Petersburg, FL 33707
813-562-7829; FAX: 813-345-8973
crowley@law.stetson.edu

"Be aware of the snowball effect of your thinking."
Don't sweat the small stuff -- and it's all small stuff / by Richard Carlson.

* * * Cataloging Rules!!! * * *
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:02:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ilana Kingsley <inewby@BERYL.ILS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Westchester/Armonk NY folks

I have a pseudo indexing job for anyone in the Westchester area, close to
Armonk, NY.

If you're interested, email me and I'll give you details.

--Ilana
inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:15:06 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ted Neveln <tedne@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

The Saudi embassy has a useful website which came in very useful for me
when I had the same problem. I don't remember the URL but a web search
should turn it up. BTW they write 'Ibn as Bin just in case your problem
wasn't complicated enough!

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:55:50 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

Hi Paula!

I looked in a State Department index on the Middle East (from 1955) and found:
Faisal ibn al-Aziz ibn Abd al-Rahman al-Faisal al Saud, who I think was the
crown prince at the time, and Saud, ibn Abd al-Azia, who was the king. I'm not
sure if the succession has passed since then! Anyway, these forms would have
come from the official list of names from the State Department, although I
would certainly give precedence to whatever the Saudi embassy tells you!

Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:55:48 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Marsha Lofthouse <marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM>
Subject:      What do you think?

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92
Content-Type: text/plain

For those interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here
is one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear comments
from anyone who has the time to take a look.

1. Go to http://www.quicken.com/.

2. Scroll down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left called
"Site Links."

3. Click Site Index.

Does anyone know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own
in-house staff?

Marsha Lofthouse
TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
http://www.targetsmart.com
mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com


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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.0.1460.9">
<TITLE>What do you think?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">For those =
interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here is =
one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear =
comments from anyone who has the time to take a look. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">1. Go to<U> =
<A HREF=3D"http://www.quicken.com/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.quicken.com/</A></U>.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">2. Scroll =
down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left called =
&quot;Site Links.&quot;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">3. Click =
Site Index.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">Does anyone =
know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own =
in-house staff? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Marsha Lofthouse</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">TargetSmart! The Power of Smart =
Business</FONT>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.targetsmart.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
HREF=3D"mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>=

</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:47:19 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karen Field <KarenF@TRITECH.COM>
Subject:      Re: What do you think?

Hi, all and Marsha.

Until recently, I was the Technical Editor at Intuit in San Diego (the tax
product group), and I think I can speak from experience regarding this
division. I don't believe the tax product Web sites are indexed by anyone
but Webmaster for the site. Indexing for the user guides is done by those
who write the user guides--the technical writers. After getting interested
in the special skills that indexing requires, as the editor I started a
movement there of evaluating and refining the user guide's indexes--and I
believe the guides are better for it. Before that, indexing was something
done in the very eleventh hour--by the writer, who was usually tired and
sick of dealing with the manual by then. I believe the writers still do the
indexing, but I hope they now have a new appreciation for the importance of
the index.

Marsha, if you contact me directly, I'll give you the names of people to
contact in the group.

Karen Field
Technical Writer, Editor, and Indexer
San Diego, CA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marsha Lofthouse [SMTP:marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 12:56 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      What do you think?
>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> For those interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious),
> here
> is one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear
> comments
> from anyone who has the time to take a look.
>
> 1. Go to http://www.quicken.com/.
>
> 2. Scroll down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left
> called
> "Site Links."
>
> 3. Click Site Index.
>
> Does anyone know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their
> own
> in-house staff?
>
> Marsha Lofthouse
> TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
> http://www.targetsmart.com
> mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com
>
>
> ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92
> Content-Type: text/html
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
> charset=3Dus-ascii">
> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
> 5.0.1460.9">
> <TITLE>What do you think?</TITLE>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY>
>
> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">For those =
> interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here is =
> one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear =
> comments from anyone who has the time to take a look. </FONT></P>
>
> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">1. Go to<U> =
> <A HREF=3D"http://www.quicken.com/" =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.quicken.com/</A></U>.</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">2. Scroll =
> down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left called =
> &quot;Site Links.&quot;</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">3. Click =
> Site Index.</FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">Does anyone =
> know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own =
> in-house staff? </FONT>
> </P>
>
> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Marsha Lofthouse</FONT>
> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">TargetSmart! The Power of Smart =
> Business</FONT>
> <BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
> HREF=3D"http://www.targetsmart.com" =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>
> <BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
> HREF=3D"mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com" =
> TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>=
>
> </P>
>
> </BODY>
> </HTML>
> ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:00:04 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: What do you think?
In-Reply-To:  <199811112055.PAA10119@camel26.mindspring.com>

I think they might have some indexers on staff. I saw an announcement for
the WinWriters conference that Quicken is doing a whole special section on
how they do documentation and help, and are having a separate session on
indexing... so they are into it.

I think the site looks cool, but some repetition could be gotten rid of
with subhead usage.

Jan Wright

At 01:55 PM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>For those interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here
>is one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear comments
>from anyone who has the time to take a look.
>
>1. Go to http://www.quicken.com/.
>
>2. Scroll down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left called
>"Site Links."
>
>3. Click Site Index.
>
>Does anyone know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own
>in-house staff?
>
>Marsha Lofthouse
>TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
>http://www.targetsmart.com
>mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com
>
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92
>Content-Type: text/html
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
><HTML>
><HEAD>
><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
>charset=3Dus-ascii">
><META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
>5.0.1460.9">
><TITLE>What do you think?</TITLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY>
>
><P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">For those =
>interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here is =
>one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear =
>comments from anyone who has the time to take a look. </FONT></P>
>
><P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">1. Go to<U> =
><A HREF=3D"http://www.quicken.com/" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.quicken.com/</A></U>.</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">2. Scroll =
>down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left called =
>&quot;Site Links.&quot;</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">3. Click =
>Site Index.</FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">Does anyone =
>know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own =
>in-house staff? </FONT>
></P>
>
><P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Marsha Lofthouse</FONT>
><BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">TargetSmart! The Power of Smart =
>Business</FONT>
><BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
>HREF=3D"http://www.targetsmart.com" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>
><BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
>HREF=3D"mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com" =
>TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>=
>
></P>
>
></BODY>
></HTML>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DB5.A93A8F92--
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:07:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Marsha Lofthouse <marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM>
Subject:      Re: What do you think?

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DBF.A9CC37D0
Content-Type: text/plain

Thanks Karen for the insight. It truly is nice to speak (e-speak? <g>) to an
editor who appreciates the skills involved in indexing and who understands
that it usually isn't done optimally by the writer at the last minute.

And yes, I would appreciate the names of people to contact in that group.
Thanks!

M

Marsha Lofthouse
TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
http://www.targetsmart.com
mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Field [SMTP:KarenF@TRITECH.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 2:47 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: What do you think?
>
> Hi, all and Marsha.
>
> Until recently, I was the Technical Editor at Intuit in San Diego (the tax
> product group), and I think I can speak from experience regarding this
> division. I don't believe the tax product Web sites are indexed by anyone
> but Webmaster for the site. Indexing for the user guides is done by those
> who write the user guides--the technical writers. After getting interested
> in the special skills that indexing requires, as the editor I started a
> movement there of evaluating and refining the user guide's indexes--and I
> believe the guides are better for it. Before that, indexing was something
> done in the very eleventh hour--by the writer, who was usually tired and
> sick of dealing with the manual by then. I believe the writers still do
> the
> indexing, but I hope they now have a new appreciation for the importance
> of
> the index.
>
> Marsha, if you contact me directly, I'll give you the names of people to
> contact in the group.
>
> Karen Field
> Technical Writer, Editor, and Indexer
> San Diego, CA
>

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DBF.A9CC37D0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.0.1460.9">
<TITLE>RE: What do you think?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">Thanks Karen =
for the insight. It truly is nice to speak (e-speak? &lt;g&gt;) to an =
editor who appreciates the skills involved in indexing and who =
understands that it usually isn't done optimally by the writer at the =
last minute. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">And yes, I =
would appreciate the names of people to contact in that group. =
Thanks!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS">M</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">Marsha Lofthouse</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma">TargetSmart! The Power of Smart =
Business</FONT>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.targetsmart.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>
<BR><U><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Tahoma"><A =
HREF=3D"mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com</A></FONT></U>=

</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Karen Field [SMTP:KarenF@TRITECH.COM]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, November 11, 1998 2:47 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: What do you think?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi, all and =
Marsha.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Until recently, I =
was the Technical Editor at Intuit in San Diego (the tax</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">product group), and =
I think I can speak from experience regarding this</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">division. I don't =
believe the tax product Web sites are indexed by anyone</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">but Webmaster for =
the site. Indexing for the user guides is done by those</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">who write the user =
guides--the technical writers. After getting interested</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">in the special =
skills that indexing requires, as the editor I started a</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">movement there of =
evaluating and refining the user guide's indexes--and I</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">believe the guides =
are better for it. Before that, indexing was something</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">done in the very =
eleventh hour--by the writer, who was usually tired and</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sick of dealing =
with the manual by then. I believe the writers still do the</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">indexing, but I =
hope they now have a new appreciation for the importance of</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the index.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Marsha, if you =
contact me directly, I'll give you the names of people to</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">contact in the =
group.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Karen Field</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technical Writer, =
Editor, and Indexer</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">San Diego, =
CA</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DBF.A9CC37D0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:54:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?
In-Reply-To:  <199811110505.XAA18673@mixcom.mixcom.com>

Dan, congrats on your first job! On the few occasions when I've had to
produce name and subject indexes, I didn't find that it took me any longer
to produce two separate indexes than it would have to produce one combined
index. Because I'm using Cindex (and I imagine this would be true for all
other professional indexing software), it's a snap to switch between two
open indexes. So as I'm choosing subjects or names, I simply plunk them
down into whichever index they belong in. For example, when I read about
"vaulted structures," that gets typed into the subject index; when I read
about Robert Fulton, that gets typed into the name index. Same amount of
time, really (perhaps even a little less, because you don't add subs in the
name index). The upshot is that I have never charged more for creating two
indexes. I'll be interested to hear what others do.

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com                | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:07:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: I'm sorry (in advance)
In-Reply-To:  <199811110505.XAA18673@mixcom.mixcom.com>

>Is there a way to receive messages from this list in a digest format?

Yes. Send this command to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu:

SET INDEX-L DIGEST

To get a list of all the interesting commands you can send to the SUNY
Bing. listserv and what they do, send the following command:

INFO REFCARD

You can send both of those commands in the same message; just put them on
separate lines.

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com                | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:07:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kate Welsh <kwelsh@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Eileen wrote that listserv is a registered trade mark. I supposed I could
have guessed that, just from the spelling (no terminal "e"). E-list sounds
like a good, short and descriptive (and generic) substitute.

Kate

Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:00:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Just a guess here but the reason for no terminal maybe from the fact that
DOS only allowed 8 letters in a file name and 3 for the extension.

Roberta

At 03:07 PM 11/11/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Eileen wrote that listserv is a registered trade mark. I supposed I could
>have guessed that, just from the spelling (no terminal "e"). E-list sounds
>like a good, short and descriptive (and generic) substitute.
>
>Kate
>
>Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB
>Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing
>Briefs - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials - Policies
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:01:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         klrsak <klrsak@ONEIMAGE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Re: Listserv, Xerox, etc.
I'm having this reply copyrighted. Please don't share it with anyone before
consulting my attorney. I want full credit for my originality and hard
labor and prefer that it be useful to no one if not useful to me. There's a
universe at stake here and I know the diff tween mine and not mine, every
mite of which I intend to be to my full applause and profit.



Posted by Larry - (This isn't public domain either, mind you. Please ask
permission before abusing it [: please don't say, say, "I've Larried this"
or "I'm Larrying that", not unless, of course, you give me full recognition
as the author you are quoting. And please don't confuse me with any others
who have been contibuting to your intelligence or well-being over the years
at no cost. I like to think of myself as distinguished.]  How I - myself -
came up with this name is my genius and no one else's. I'm not letting
anyone think I might merely be borrowing it from others who were fool
enough, with magnanimity, to not copyright an alphabet someone else was
even more a fool to let just any Plato at all call his own idea. The
Library o Congress [wasn't that original? I'm copyrighting it] is my first
stop even in [recorded, mind you] conversation. It'd be ridiculous to
simply give it, to anyone at all, knowing that they could steal something
from me, perhaps even to their or anyone else's benefit, and not even have
the gratitude to remember where they got it. When I die I'm gonna have a
slab 700 feet high, with all *my* accomplishments engraved on it, in
detail, iterating, for good measure, the message at my memorial service.
Nor in my lifetime shall I incur the fate of Ozymandias through the
unacknowledged or improper dissemination of my fine name. If used in
concert with other notions than it's exclusive meaning, if taken out of
context in itself, if mixed with any number of other concepts, if
pronounced 'Arry', 'Shlarry', 'Yrral' or any other such concoction, I yet
insist that my lawyer be first formally consulted and all proprieties be
observed in my honor.
                            Your thank-you due to my fame and significance
-
                            lacoG indexing
                       klrsak@oneimage.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:50:14 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Schwilk <Mschwilk@AOL.COM>
Subject:      BOOK (It's amazing!!!)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_910831814_boundary
Content-ID: <0_910831814@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

what'll they think of next

Subj:    Fwd: Read This!
Date:   11/9/98 3:54:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:   lturner@calstate.edu (Larry Turner)
Reply-to:       lturner@calstate.edu (Larry Turner)
To:     mschwilk@aol.com (Michael schwilk)



--------------------------------------
Date: 11/9/98 16:26
From: Phyllis Lockridge

TECHNOLOGY THAT'S EVEN MORE VERSATILE THAN COMPUTERS.

Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade-name
"BOOK."

BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology; no wires, no electric
circuits, no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on. It's so
easy
to use even a child can operate it.

Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere, even sitting in an
armchair by
the fire, yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a
CD-ROM
disc.

Here is how it works: BOOK is constructed of sequentially numbered sheets
of
recyclable paper, each capable of holding thousands of bits of
information.
The pages are locked together with a custom-fit device called a binder,
which
keeps the sheets in their correct sequence.

Opaque Paper Technology (OPT) allows manufacturers to use both sides of
the
sheet, doubling the information density and cutting costs. Each sheet is
scanned optically, registering information directly into your brain.  A
flick
of your finger takes you to the next sheet.

BOOK may be taken up at any time and used merely by simply opening it.

BOOK never crashes or requires rebooting. The Browse feature allows you
to
move instantly to any sheet, and move forward or backward as you wish.
Many
come with an Index feature, which pinpoints the exact location of any
selected
information for instant retrieval.

An optional "BOOKMARK" accessory allows you to open BOOK to the exact
place
you left it in a previous session, even if the BOOK is closed.

BOOKMARKS fit universal design standards; thus, a single BOOKMARK
can be used in BOOKS by various manufacturers. Conversely, numerous
BOOKMARKS can be used in a single BOOK if the user wants to store
numerous views at once. The number is limited by the number of pages in
the BOOK.

You can also make personal notes next to BOOK text
entries with an optional programming tool, named: "Portable Erasable Nib
Cryptic Intercommunication Language Stylus - or - "PENCILS."

Portable, durable and affordable, the BOOK is being
hailed as the precursor of a huge entertainment wave. BOOK'S appeal
seems so certain that thousands of content-creators have committed to the
platform and investors are reportedly flocking to the new phenomenon.

Look for a flood of new titles soon.











----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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From: Larry Turner <lturner@calstate.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Read This!
To: Michael schwilk <mschwilk@aol.com>
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Date: 09 Nov 98 15:54:30 -0700
From: Larry Turner <lturner@calstate.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Read This!
To: Michael schwilk <mschwilk@aol.com>
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit



--------------------------------------
Date: 11/9/98 16:26
From: Phyllis Lockridge

TECHNOLOGY THAT'S EVEN MORE VERSATILE THAN COMPUTERS.

Introducing the new Bio-Optic Organized Knowledge device, trade-name
"BOOK."

BOOK is a revolutionary breakthrough in technology; no wires, no electric
circuits, no batteries, nothing to be connected or switched on. It's so
easy
to use even a child can operate it.

Compact and portable, it can be used anywhere, even sitting in an
armchair by
the fire, yet it is powerful enough to hold as much information as a
CD-ROM
disc.

Here is how it works: BOOK is constructed of sequentially numbered sheets
of
recyclable paper, each capable of holding thousands of bits of
information.
The pages are locked together with a custom-fit device called a binder,
which
keeps the sheets in their correct sequence.

Opaque Paper Technology (OPT) allows manufacturers to use both sides of
the
sheet, doubling the information density and cutting costs. Each sheet is
scanned optically, registering information directly into your brain.  A
flick
of your finger takes you to the next sheet.

BOOK may be taken up at any time and used merely by simply opening it.

BOOK never crashes or requires rebooting. The Browse feature allows you
to
move instantly to any sheet, and move forward or backward as you wish.
Many
come with an Index feature, which pinpoints the exact location of any
selected
information for instant retrieval.

An optional "BOOKMARK" accessory allows you to open BOOK to the exact
place
you left it in a previous session, even if the BOOK is closed.

BOOKMARKS fit universal design standards; thus, a single BOOKMARK
can be used in BOOKS by various manufacturers. Conversely, numerous
BOOKMARKS can be used in a single BOOK if the user wants to store
numerous views at once. The number is limited by the number of pages in
the BOOK.

You can also make personal notes next to BOOK text
entries with an optional programming tool, named: "Portable Erasable Nib
Cryptic Intercommunication Language Stylus - or - "PENCILS."

Portable, durable and affordable, the BOOK is being
hailed as the precursor of a huge entertainment wave. BOOK'S appeal
seems so certain that thousands of content-creators have committed to the
platform and investors are reportedly flocking to the new phenomenon.

Look for a flood of new titles soon.






LarryTurner
(562) 985 2754 VOICE
(562) 985 2757 FAX
lturner@calstate.edu





--part0_910831814_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:44:55 +0000
Reply-To:     connolly@neca.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dan Connolly <connolly@NECA.COM>
Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

Carol Roberts wrote:
>
> Dan, congrats on your first job! On the few occasions when I've had to
> produce name and subject indexes, I didn't find that it took me any longer
> to produce two separate indexes than it would have to produce one combined
> index. Because I'm using Cindex (and I imagine this would be true for all
> other professional indexing software), it's a snap to switch between two
> open indexes. So as I'm choosing subjects or names, I simply plunk them
> down into whichever index they belong in. For example, when I read about
> "vaulted structures," that gets typed into the subject index; when I read
> about Robert Fulton, that gets typed into the name index. Same amount of
> time, really (perhaps even a little less, because you don't add subs in the
> name index). The upshot is that I have never charged more for creating two
> indexes. I'll be interested to hear what others do.
>


Carol,

Thanks for the info. Someone else suggested doing it in one index (using a
macro or abbreviation to key in "aaa" or some such code in front of all name
entries, thereby causing them to be sorted ahead of all subject entries). This
could then be exported to text and separated into two files quite simply. It
eliminates that little hypersecond of time to flip between windows, which can
add up. What do you think?

I've heard replies form others that they would charge from $0 to $500 extra
for the name index (basically up to $1/page.)
--

=========================================
Daniel A. Connolly
mailto:connolly@neca.com
WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services
www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com
Woodstock, CT, USA
=========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:48:47 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Truesdale <Anntrue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Larry,

Be careful. I think you may have had one cup of coffee too many while you were
working on that last all-nighter rush job!!   ;-D

Ann

Ann Truesdale   (anntrue@aol.com)
TrueWords Freelance Services
Yonges Island, SC

**************************************************************
 If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool
 came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?


> Re: Listserv, Xerox, etc.
>  I'm having this reply copyrighted. Please don't share it with anyone before
>  consulting my attorney. I want full credit for my originality and hard
>  labor and prefer that it be useful to no one if not useful to me. There's a
>  universe at stake here and I know the diff tween mine and not mine, every
>  mite of which I intend to be to my full applause and profit.
>
>
>
>  Posted by Larry - (This isn't public domain either, mind you. Please ask
>  permission before abusing it [: please don't say, say, "I've Larried this"
>  or "I'm Larrying that", not unless, of course, you give me full recognition
>  as the author you are quoting. And please don't confuse me with any others
>  who have been contibuting to your intelligence or well-being over the years
>  at no cost. I like to think of myself as distinguished.]  How I - myself -
>  came up with this name is my genius and no one else's. I'm not letting
>  anyone think I might merely be borrowing it from others who were fool
>  enough, with magnanimity, to not copyright an alphabet someone else was
>  even more a fool to let just any Plato at all call his own idea. The
>  Library o Congress [wasn't that original? I'm copyrighting it] is my first
>  stop even in [recorded, mind you] conversation. It'd be ridiculous to
>  simply give it, to anyone at all, knowing that they could steal something
>  from me, perhaps even to their or anyone else's benefit, and not even have
>  the gratitude to remember where they got it. When I die I'm gonna have a
>  slab 700 feet high, with all *my* accomplishments engraved on it, in
>  detail, iterating, for good measure, the message at my memorial service.
>  Nor in my lifetime shall I incur the fate of Ozymandias through the
>  unacknowledged or improper dissemination of my fine name. If used in
>  concert with other notions than it's exclusive meaning, if taken out of
>  context in itself, if mixed with any number of other concepts, if
>  pronounced 'Arry', 'Shlarry', 'Yrral' or any other such concoction, I yet
>  insist that my lawyer be first formally consulted and all proprieties be
>  observed in my honor.
>                              Your thank-you due to my fame and significance
>  -
>                              lacoG indexing
>                         klrsak@oneimage.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:49:03 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Truesdale <Anntrue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What do you think?

Hi all,

I have used Quicken products since approximately 1985. Theirs was the first
good (and probably the best) software manual I ever used. The old Quicken
manuals were almost an inch thick and really helpful - and the indexes seemed
good, too. I also used their payroll add-on, which came with a satisfactory
manual, too. Imagine my disappointment when Quicken Home & Business 98 came
with two slim booklets of about 90 pages each! Still, they are much better
than what gets shipped with most software nowadays.

Yes, I would say the folks at Intuit know something about indexes; and they
have good technical writers, too. Could that *possibly* have something to do
with their success?

(I have not used the '98's [shudder] on-line help enough to know if it is any
better than the rest - I hate 'em all.)

Ann Truesdale   (anntrue@aol.com)
TrueWords Freelance Services
Yonges Island, SC

**************************************************************
 If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool
 came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?


In a message dated 11/11/98 3:57:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM writes:

>
>  For those interested in web indexes (and even for those just curious), here
>  is one that is in a format I haven't seen before. I'd love to hear comments
>  from anyone who has the time to take a look.
>
>  1. Go to http://www.quicken.com/.
>
>  2. Scroll down near the bottom of the page to the section on the left
called
>  "Site Links."
>
>  3. Click Site Index.
>
>  Does anyone know if Quicken/Intuit uses freelance indexers or has their own
>  in-house staff?
>
>  Marsha Lofthouse
>  TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
>  http://www.targetsmart.com
>  mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:12:05 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kevin A. Broccoli" <brocindx@CATSKILL.NET>
Subject:      Re: What do you think?

-----Original Message-----
From: Marsha Lofthouse <marsha_lofthouse@TARGETSMART.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: What do you think?


>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>------ =_NextPart_001_01BE0DBF.A9CC37D0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Thanks Karen for the insight. It truly is nice to speak (e-speak? <g>) to
an
>editor who appreciates the skills involved in indexing and who understands
>that it usually isn't done optimally by the writer at the last minute.
>
>And yes, I would appreciate the names of people to contact in that group.
>Thanks!
>
>M
>
>Marsha Lofthouse
>TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business
>http://www.targetsmart.com
>mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karen Field [SMTP:KarenF@TRITECH.COM]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 2:47 PM
>> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>> Subject:      Re: What do you think?
>>
>> Hi, all and Marsha.
>>
>> Until recently, I was the Technical Editor at Intuit in San Diego (the
tax
>> product group), and I think I can speak from experience regarding this
>> division. I don't believe the tax product Web sites are indexed by anyone
>> but Webmaster for the site. Indexing for the user guides is done by those
>> who write the user guides--the technical writers. After getting
interested
>> in the special skills that indexing requires, as the editor I started a
>> movement there of evaluating and refining the user guide's indexes--and I
>> believe the guides are better for it. Before that, indexing was something
>> done in the very eleventh hour--by the writer, who was usually tired and
>> sick of dealing with the manual by then. I believe the writers still do
>> the
>> indexing, but I hope they now have a new appreciation for the importance
>> of
>> the index.
>>
>> Marsha, if you contact me directly, I'll give you the names of people to
>> contact in the group.
>>
>> Karen Field
>> Technical Writer, Editor, and Indexer
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>
Regarding this type of index...you can develop one similar to it using HTML
Help Workshop.  I have one on my site, http://www.bim.net, that I use as a
sample index.

Kevin A. Broccoli
Broccoli Information Management
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:22:53 -0700
Reply-To:     "sdewayne@cyberhighway.net" <sdewayne@cyberhighway.net>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Shelley DeWayne <sdewayne@CYBERHIGHWAY.NET>
Subject:      MISC:  TEST

This is a test to see if I FINALLY   have been subscribed to Index-L.



Shelley DeWayne sdewayne@cyberhighway.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:21:26 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Bonnie Taylor <Bonald@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Late fees

Up to this point, all of my work has come from one of two sources: (1) my
mentor who pays so quickly that I sometimes have my check before she has my
invoice; and (2) a university press that requires me to fill out their time
sheet and make an invoice according to their specifications and then still
takes at least two months to pay me.

I just completed my first job for a major publisher. My mentor recommended
that I add to my invoice "Payment due in 30 days or XX late fee will be
assessed." As an alternative, she suggested that I consider offering a small
discount (say, 5%) for timely payment. I thought it would be interesting to
toss the question out to the list: how do you handle/guard against late
payment?

Bonnie Taylor
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:59:01 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

I would charge 25 to 50 cents a page extra for the name index. It's not that
creating two separate indexes is that difficult if you have indexing software
(as Carol said)--but if there are enough names to warrant a name index, you're
going to spend a bunch of extra time on them. I've sometimes been known to
call a publisher with whom I'd agreed to do one index for a textbook and told
them that there were enough names that I'd be charging my price for two
indexes, however they chose to organize it. And had them agree. In any case,
charging extra for two indexes is standard with all of my textbook publishers.
I'd be interested in hearing if anybody's differential is more than 50 cents a
page--I've been wondering if I'm charging enough. The extra name work is so
non-thinking that I find it "easy" after scholarly work, but it is time!

Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:32:00 +0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Victoria Baker <vbaker@PACIFIC.NET>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?
In-Reply-To:  <199811112209.OAA22178@pacific.net>

Carol wrote:
>So as I'm choosing subjects or names, I simply plunk them
>down into whichever index they belong in. For example, when I read about
>"vaulted structures," that gets typed into the subject index; when I read
>about Robert Fulton, that gets typed into the name index. Same amount of
>time, really (perhaps even a little less, because you don't add subs in the
>name index). The upshot is that I have never charged more for creating two
>indexes. I'll be interested to hear what others do.

How difficult a name index is to do depends on the nature of the text and
the names involved. If all the names are present, in full, in the text,
then I agree that it doesn't take a lot more effort (but it does take some
effort which, in my experience, is not trivial, because for me, having to
remember to switch between indexes or to code entries complicates matters).
However, if the names are bibliographic references in the text, and only
occur as last names, in which case the indexer has to look up each name in
the biblio, a name index takes a long time.  True, the work is not taxing
intellectually, but it is stiflingly boring (at least to me) and the time
it takes can be quite alarming. Last time this discussion took place it
seemed that people charged anywhere from $.25 to $1.00 a page more for such
a second index.

In terms of process for completing the work, I remember Sandra Topping
offered a method that I plan to try next time I have to do one of those
monsters, and one or two others offered their methods which I also saved
and will reread when the time comes.

Best,
Victoria

vbaker@pacific.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:03:38 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: "listserv" (was: I'm sorry)
In-Reply-To:  <199811120505.XAA06306@mixcom.mixcom.com>

>To get a list of all the interesting commands you can send to the SUNY
>Bing. listserv and what they do, send the following command:

When I wrote that, I didn't know "Listserv" is a trademark. So, what I
meant was "server."

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com                | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:27:25 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Late fees

Bonnie Taylor wrote:
> I just completed my first job for a major publisher. My mentor
recommended
> that I add to my invoice "Payment due in 30 days or XX late fee will be
> assessed." As an alternative, she suggested that I consider offering a
small
> discount (say, 5%) for timely payment. I thought it would be interesting
to
> toss the question out to the list: how do you handle/guard against late
> payment?

So far, I have only run across one publisher (out of six) that I've had any
problem with.  I'm considering adding the late fee notice to invoices to
that publisher but not to the others, who pay on time without that
"reminder."  I am also interested in knowing what other list members do.
Is a late-payment warning standard?  What is a reasonable late fee
percentage, or do you charge a flat amount (a la businesses who charge a
flat amount for bounced checks?)

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net

Wordsmith Indexing Services
8112 Harrison Dr.
King George, VA 22485
(540) 775-4072
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:07:10 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" <Brianp@MS.NCGA.STATE.NC.US>
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

Paula,

The general manner of alphabetizing these names is by the first name, in
this case Faisal (this is the standard 'Western' spelling, not Faysal).

I would alphabetize him as

Faisal ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz

Only add the al-Saud if there is more than one Faisal ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz.

If you try to parse up the name and flip it as with Western names you
could get into trouble. If you run into several persons of the same name
you can also distinguish by using the full name or title (King of Saudi
Arabia) or some such.

In the name from the biographical dictionary Faisal is the king's
followed by his father's (separated by ibn meaning son of) this is
followed by his grandfather's name and al-Saud the family name.

You must be very careful with the Saudi royal family's names because the
kings since the 1950s have all been the sons of 'Abd al-'Aziz ibn Saud,
and they all have sons with pretty much the same names. And, be very
careful of the official embassy web sites. The way that the Saudi
government transliterates the names into the Latin alphabet is not
always the generally accepted form. The use of ibn and bin is a somewhat
tricky subject, when in doubt stick to ibn. There is a gramatical rule
behind correct use (it is also regional), but I can't remember.

I can't think of any good name sources. I'm away from home and don't
have my library handy. You might try and locate a copy of Robert Lacey's
'The Kingdom'. As I recall it has a good list of all of  'Abd al-'Aziz's
sons.

I'll take a look at my library this evening.


BRIAN M. PECK
Technical Librarian/Indexer
North Carolina General Assembly
300 N. Salisbury Street
Raleigh, NC 27603-5925
Phone: 919-733-9390 Fax: 919-715-5460
email: brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us


>----------
>From:  Paula C. Durbin-Westby[SMTP:dwindex@LOUISA.NET]
>Sent:  Wednesday, November 11, 1998 8:43 AM
>To:    Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>Subject:       Arabic names
>
>I am indexing multi-authored  book full of Arabic names. Authors often use
>variants of a name, (Faisal in one article, `Abd al-`Aziz in another,
>Al-Sa`ud in yet another, all seeming to refer to the same ruler of Saudi
>Arabia).  Does anyone have any leads on a website that might help?  The
>Webster's Biographical Dictionary isn't helping;  Faisal is listed as
>Faysal ibn `Abd al-`Aziz ibn `Abd ar-Rahman al-Sa`ud.  Now that I've
>figured out that they are all the same person I am still unsure as to how
>to alphabetize him!
>
>Paula C. Durbin-Westby
>dwindex@louisa.net
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:25:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" <Brianp@MS.NCGA.STATE.NC.US>
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

Paula,

Here's another thing to keep in mind ibn or bin is never capitalized.

BRIAN M. PECK
Technical Librarian/Indexer
North Carolina General Assembly
300 N. Salisbury Street
Raleigh, NC 27603-5925
Phone: 919-733-9390 Fax: 919-715-5460
email: brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us


>----------
>From:  Ted Neveln[SMTP:tedne@JUNO.COM]
>Sent:  Wednesday, November 11, 1998 3:15 PM
>To:    Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>Subject:       Re: Arabic names
>
>The Saudi embassy has a useful website which came in very useful for me
>when I had the same problem. I don't remember the URL but a web search
>should turn it up. BTW they write 'Ibn as Bin just in case your problem
>wasn't complicated enough!
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:26:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

Larry, you've obviously missed your true calling.  You have a brilliant
future as a satirist and stand-up.  :-)

-- Sharon W.
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: klrsak [SMTP:klrsak@ONEIMAGE.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 6:01 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"
>
> Re: Listserv, Xerox, etc.
> I'm having this reply copyrighted. Please don't share it with anyone
> before
> consulting my attorney. I want full credit for my originality and hard
> labor and prefer that it be useful to no one if not useful to me. There's
> a
> universe at stake here and I know the diff tween mine and not mine, every
> mite of which I intend to be to my full applause and profit.
>
>
>
> Posted by Larry - (This isn't public domain either, mind you. Please ask
> permission before abusing it [: please don't say, say, "I've Larried this"
> or "I'm Larrying that", not unless, of course, you give me full
> recognition
> as the author you are quoting. And please don't confuse me with any others
> who have been contibuting to your intelligence or well-being over the
> years
> at no cost. I like to think of myself as distinguished.]  How I - myself -
> came up with this name is my genius and no one else's. I'm not letting
> anyone think I might merely be borrowing it from others who were fool
> enough, with magnanimity, to not copyright an alphabet someone else was
> even more a fool to let just any Plato at all call his own idea. The
> Library o Congress [wasn't that original? I'm copyrighting it] is my first
> stop even in [recorded, mind you] conversation. It'd be ridiculous to
> simply give it, to anyone at all, knowing that they could steal something
> from me, perhaps even to their or anyone else's benefit, and not even have
> the gratitude to remember where they got it. When I die I'm gonna have a
> slab 700 feet high, with all *my* accomplishments engraved on it, in
> detail, iterating, for good measure, the message at my memorial service.
> Nor in my lifetime shall I incur the fate of Ozymandias through the
> unacknowledged or improper dissemination of my fine name. If used in
> concert with other notions than it's exclusive meaning, if taken out of
> context in itself, if mixed with any number of other concepts, if
> pronounced 'Arry', 'Shlarry', 'Yrral' or any other such concoction, I yet
> insist that my lawyer be first formally consulted and all proprieties be
> observed in my honor.
>                             Your thank-you due to my fame and significance
> -
>                             lacoG indexing
>                        klrsak@oneimage.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:31:48 +0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Laurence Errington <Laurence@ERRINGTON-INDEX.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Windows 98 v W95

I'm a subscriber to Index-L but never have time to read it or use it to
it's full capability (50 books, 20+ journals indexed a year plus 2 young
kids etc.....). I'm wanting to get a second PC system, and would
appreciate anyone's views/experiences on running it under W98 rather
than a late version of W95. I've heard lot's of stability problems about
W98 which obviously is till in the early stages of use. ANy
recommendations on which Windows to install?

You may have lots of correspondence on this already. If so then point me
on to how to get the info from INdex-L (as I said I've not had time).
Reply to me in person with your prejudices if it's already been
discussed, so as not to go over old ground.

Thanks all.
--
Dr Laurence Errington
15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ
Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406
Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only)
E-Mail: laurence@errington-index.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:33:35 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Mary Mortensen <MaryMort@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Late fees

My experience has been similar to Kara's:  most large publishers pay me within
30 days.  I did want to mention that with some of them, the payment for the
first index has taken longer, because they have to get me "into their system".
This was excruciating when I had to wait about 6 weeks to get paid for my
first indexing job!  At least you've gotten a good start, Bonnie.  I also had
a delay once when a textbook publisher had been taken over by another company
and their accounting systems were being merged.

To specifically answer the question, I put a line on my invoice that says
"Payment terms:  Net 30."  Or in the case of one *small* cash-strapped
publisher, Net 60.  (The owner told me he usually pays in 90 days but agreed
to pay me in 60 - and he does, and continues to call me.)

Mary
--
*  Mary Mortensen                              *  marymort@aol.com
*  Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:56:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

This has already been discussed, but it's always good for a few whirlwind
posts.  For a very brief recap, the consensus seem to be that if you
purchase a new computer with Windows98 already installed on it, you should
be fine.  The real problems come in attempting to upgrade an existing system
from Win95 to Win98.  The experiences here at my company seem to bear this
out.  For what it's worth, Win98 will be the last version of that operating
system that Microsoft will develop.  They are pushing ahead with WindowsNT
5.0 to be the ultimate replacement operating system.

The CNN web site (http://www.cnn.com) has an excellent series of articles
about some of the pitfalls of Win98 under its Computing category.  From the
opening page, scroll down and click on the COMPUTING link and follow along.


-- Sharon W.
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurence Errington [SMTP:Laurence@ERRINGTON-INDEX.DEMON.CO.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 9:32 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Windows 98 v W95
>
> I'm a subscriber to Index-L but never have time to read it or use it to
> it's full capability (50 books, 20+ journals indexed a year plus 2 young
> kids etc.....). I'm wanting to get a second PC system, and would
> appreciate anyone's views/experiences on running it under W98 rather
> than a late version of W95. I've heard lot's of stability problems about
> W98 which obviously is till in the early stages of use. ANy
> recommendations on which Windows to install?
>
> You may have lots of correspondence on this already. If so then point me
> on to how to get the info from INdex-L (as I said I've not had time).
> Reply to me in person with your prejudices if it's already been
> discussed, so as not to go over old ground.
>
> Thanks all.
> --
> Dr Laurence Errington
> 15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ
> Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406
> Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only)
> E-Mail: laurence@errington-index.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:57:55 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Late fees
In-Reply-To:  <7786fb9e.364af1bf@aol.com>

Yeah well,

>This was excruciating when I had to wait about 6 weeks to get paid for my
>first indexing job!  At least you've gotten a good start, Bonnie.  I also had

That's nut 'n honey. I waited 7 months for $1100 from a packager. Whom I no
longer work for. He says anyway he can find indexers to work for him for
$2/pg. You can imagine my response to that.

I had that line on my invoice about finance charges, but so far that has
always been utterly ignored. I think the only way to really collect on that
is to have had it agreed to in writing.

I also want to say that we have an aspiring indexer among us who is too shy
to speak up. I met with her last Sunday and have been encouraging her, but
she won't say anything. Come on, V, introduce yourself. Get involved. Ask
questions.

She put a bug in my ear that got me thinking about offering an intro to
indexing course, maybe through a local college. I would really enjoy that.
I know several of you do this, but I've forgotten who. Can you maybe
contact me off list?

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:19:15 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <199811121458.JAA28841@mail2.lig.bellsouth.net>

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Wright, Sharon F.
|Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 8:57 AM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95
|
|For what it's worth, Win98 will be the last version of that operating
|system that Microsoft will develop.  They are pushing ahead with WindowsNT
|5.0 to be the ultimate replacement operating system.

...which, it was just recently announced, will be called "Windows 2000." So,
when you begin seeing speculation and hype about "Win2000," be aware it's
really NT50+ in a new packaging!

I have an upgrade disk for Win98 sitting here on my desk, staring bayfully
at me. I got a new Gateway last Spring, which came with Win95, but the
upgrade was mailed free when it became available. I still haven't installed
it and I don't know if I really want to....

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:32:52 GMT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Linda Sutherland <linda.sutherland@ZETNET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Indexing Electronic Journals (FWD)

This message appeared on another list I subscribe to, and I thought
it might interest some of you here. It's forwarded with the author's consent.


=============== Start of forwarded message ===================


Dear List Members,

For those of you interested in the subject of indexing electronic journals
and how that compares to traditional journals there is currently an ongoing
online discussion that has prompted many responses including the following
quotes:

"What is the logic of an 'issue'?"

"A use for contents listings that still remains is marketing."

"...the way people approach (printed) journals varies very much with their
discipline."

"I see no reason why the same process could not be applied to e-journals."

"Why shouldn't the article become the unit of publication in the electronic
environment?"

If you would like to read the comments in full and/or contribute your own
ideas please access the Internet Free-Press web site at
http://www.free-press.com/forums and follow the link to 'Talkback'. Postings
on this particular topic can be found under the subject heading 'Indexes'
though there are many more topics to choose from.

Claire Jones  cjones@free-press.com
Internet Free-Press http://www.free-press.com

(This message has been posted to the public-info@mailbase.ac.uk list)





=============== End of forwarded message ===================
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:51:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Robert " <>
Subject:      Re: Indexing Electronic Journals (FWD)

To all ASIers:

    Be aware that if you want to install Windows '98 on top of Windows
'95, the process takes about an hour and a half!  At least, that's what
I have been told.  I won't install it even though it's just Windows '95
with the bugs worked out of the '95 version and new ones to come with
the '98 version.  My understanding is this: save your money -- don't buy
it.

    Rob
    
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:17:44 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Joy Thomas <jthomas3@CSULB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Late fees

My sister, who is an accountant, recommended that I put a notice on my
invoices that reads: " net 30 + 10 after 40."  I'm such a beginner that
I've only used this twice so far.  The first time payment was quite
prompt;  the second time I faxed my editor on the 29th day and the check
came about five days later.


--
Joy Thomas
Social Sciences Librarian
California State University, Long Beach
562 985-7817
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:34:01 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sandra Topping <SCTopping@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

Dan:

If using CINDEX, definitely create separate indexes.  It does make the
likelihood of error less if you enter data in two passes: first the names in
their index , then the subject entries in theirs.

As for pay, if you have to enter "Smith, Brown, Jones and Flugelhoopfer, 1997"
and then cross-check that entry against a bibliography, resolve any spelling
differences (it's amazing how often "Jones" is misspelled), then add initials
for each name and break the single entry into 4 separate entries -- don't do
it for less than $1/page!  If you have 3-4 multiple entries per page which
then have to be broken up, the name index can easily become 16-20 separate
entries per page, and $.05 per entry is pretty low.  Especially in the social
sciences, doing the name index can eat more time than a dragon can kill
peasants.

Oh, and yes, making sure the names are spelled correctly is vital.  From my
experience working at a major university, I can verify that many professors
scan the name indexes of potential textbooks FIRST to see how many times they
are cited.  This is how they determine the "quality" of the text.

Sandy
"No matter where you go, there you are."  (Buckaroo Banzai)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:17:04 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Deborah Shaw <shawd@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Prairie Home Companion
In-Reply-To:  <199811092257.RAA10170@camel10.mindspring.com>

You can listen to the archived version on the Web. All of the Prairie Home
Companion's shows of the last two or three years are archived.  The URL is
      http://phc.mpr.org

I don't know that you'll be able to search on "index" and find the skit.
Could the original poster please tell us the name of a guest that week? My
NPR station was having its fall beg-a-thon and ran the "special"
fundraising show. Since I think I remember that skit from a long time ago,
the show may have been a repeat.

You can also listen to PHC on the Web, using RealAudio, both live on
Saturdays (5:00 p.m. North American Central Standard Time, which is 6 hours
behind Greenwich) or to the re-broadcast on Sundays, at 2:00 p.m. CST.

RealAudio is available for free:
       http://www.real.com/products/player/index.html

Cheers,
Deborah

At 02:53 PM 09-11-98 +0000, you wrote:
>Oh! you just reminded me of how I miss Garrison's entertainment
>> Did anyone else hear "Prairie Home Companion" on public radio (in the
U.S.) this weekend?  In the 'News from Lake Wobegon', Garrison Keillor
talked about  a Lake Wobegon native who moved away (to NY I think - please
forgive me if  I've forgotten some of the details) and became obsessed with
making a  concordance to Joyce's _Ulysses_.  Keillor referred to it as an
index once,  but usually as a concordance . . . <<
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:16:52 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jeri Lee <indexer@DBIC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Book reviews and letters to the editor

Letters to the editor are the "peer" part of the "peer review" process that is
essential to whether any new idea is going to sink or swim.  Therefore,
 reviewing
them is a highly essential part of the "literature" developed supporting an
 idea.
When a physician or scientist says something like, "The literature indicates . .
 .
" he/she is referring not only to published articles but to other articles,
letters to the editor, and/or other responses to that are published about that
same idea.

So, yes, indexing them is very necessary.

Jeri Lee

Ann Parrish wrote:

> Nell Benton writes: "I am working on an index to a scholarly journal. I have
> been asked to index
> the subject content of the book reviews and the letters to the editor as well
> as the usual content. This strikes me as strange. Is it common practice?"
>
> Usually the letters published in such journals are serious participants in a
> scholarly conversation.  A user of the index would perhaps be as grateful to
> encounter the letters commenting on an article as she is to find the article.
> Book reviews, written by experts in the area of the books they are reviewing,
> often include substantive facts or opinions not easily  found elsewhere.  At
> least that has been my experience.
>
> (I have never edited a scholarly journal, alas, but I have read a humongous
> number of them!  And I spend at least as much time reading the book reviews as
> I spend plowing through the featured articles.)
>
> Ann Parrish
> Parrish Professional Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:29:11 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jeri Lee <indexer@DBIC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Index in _How to Cook Everything_

Congratulations on a job obviously well done!

Jeri Lee

Maro Riofrancos wrote:

> I did the index.
>
> 53 pages isn't that long for a 944-page cookbook. If you want to see a
> really long cookbook index, take a look at the one for the 892-page The New
> Doubleday Cookbook, also indexed by yours truly (1975 and 1985 editions).
> That one is 72 pages, with a smaller typeface--more than 15,000 lines.
>
> Maro Riofrancos
> Riofrancos & Co. Indexes
> 290 Riverside Drive
> New York, NY 10025
> 212.864.2121
>
> ----------
> >From: Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
> >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
> >Subject: Index in _How to Cook Everything_
> >Date: Wed, Nov 11, 1998, 10:56 AM
> >
>
> >Did anyone in this group by any chance index _How to Cook Everything_ by
> >Mark Bittman. It is reviewed today in the Minneapolis _StarTribune,_ and the
> >reviewer raves about the helpfulness of the  index!
> >
> >Carol Kennedy
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:28:20 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Mary Mortensen <MaryMort@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Prairie Home Companion

Deborah asked:
> Could the original poster please tell us the name of a guest that week?

That would be me.  Let's see, a Cajun group called Balfa Toujours (I think),
and Vern Sutton singing a tribute to Harry Blackmun's 90th birthday.  (If
you're not familiar with the show, this will tell you how eclectic it is!)

> My NPR station was having its fall beg-a-thon and ran the "special"
> fundraising show. Since I think I remember that skit from a long time ago,
> the show may have been a repeat.

I don't think so - there were lots of jokes about Jesse Ventura's election as
Minnesota governor. ;-)  Too bad you missed them!

Regards from a long-time PHC fan,
Mary
--
*  Mary Mortensen                              *  marymort@aol.com
*  Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:10:57 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

At 01:34 PM 11/12/1998 EST, Sandra Topping wrote:

>As for pay, if you have to enter "Smith, Brown, Jones and Flugelhoopfer, 1997"
>and then cross-check that entry against a bibliography, resolve any spelling
>differences (it's amazing how often "Jones" is misspelled), then add initials
>for each name and break the single entry into 4 separate entries -- don't do
>it for less than $1/page!  If you have 3-4 multiple entries per page which
>then have to be broken up, the name index can easily become 16-20 separate
>entries per page, and $.05 per entry is pretty low.  Especially in the social
>sciences, doing the name index can eat more time than a dragon can kill
>peasants.
>
>Oh, and yes, making sure the names are spelled correctly is vital.  From my
>experience working at a major university, I can verify that many professors
>scan the name indexes of potential textbooks FIRST to see how many times they
>are cited.  This is how they determine the "quality" of the text.

I think I'm going to raise my rates for author indexes! I've been charging
an extra 50 cents per page, but as you correctly point out, the extra work
involved for 3-10 references per page is worth far more.

I keep an "errata file" in which all questionable spellings go, particularly
names, and I send this to the editor with the completed index. He or she
should then alert the author to fix the problems. IMO, a good editor should
have caught these things; a good proofreader as well. But it's pretty common
to find these problems, particularly in social science texts.

And yes, I've heard the same thing about professors checking their own
citations. Another reason why name spelling is so important!

        =Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:29:50 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         matty@AXISCORP.CO.JP
Subject:      SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten

Diese Nachricht wird automatisch und AUSSCHLIESSLICH an
unsere Abonnenten versandt.  Hinweise zur Abbestellung
finden Sie am Ende dieser Seite.


SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten  -
11. November 1998


Alle Preisangaben in US-Dollar bei Boersenschluss am
11. November 1998


Die letzten beiden von SNN vorgestellten Werte haben sich
sehr gut entwickelt, und wir bringen Ihnen heute ein kurzes
Update.

NuOncology Labs Inc. (NLAB - OTC BB) ist in den vergangenen
drei Wochen nach oben geklettert und erreichte von einem Stand
von ca. $ 4,25 am 19. Oktober heute einen neuen Hoechstkurs
von $ 7,875 bei gutem Umsatz. Jetzt, wo Investoren NLAB langsam
die Aufmerksamkeit schenken, die diese Aktie unserer Meinung
nach verdient, sollte der Aufwaertstrend anhalten.
Wir erwarten, Ihnen bald Neues von diesem Unternehmen berichten
zu koennen. Weitere Informationen ueber NuOncology Labs Inc.
finden Sie unter http://206.132.179.167/disclaimer98/nulab-de.html


Eine weitere Gesellschaft, die im SNN kuerzlich unter die Lupe
genommen wurde, US Digital Communications (USDI - OTC BB),
bewegte sich bei guten Umsaetzen von einem Stand von $4,00
am Tage, als SNN ueber dieses Unternehmen berichtete (26. Oktober)
auf heute $ 5,28. Es besteht weiterhin lebhaftes Interesse an
diesem Unternehmen und dem neuen Iridium Satelliten-Telefonsystem.
Die letzte Pressemitteilung der Gesellschaft (vom 9. November)
finden Sie unter http://finanzen.yahoo.de/. Geben Sie dazu das
Unternehmenskuerzel (USDI) ein. Weitere Infos ueber das Iridium-
Projekt und die Tochtergesellschaften von USDI finden Sie unter:
http://www.iridium.com
http://www.skysite.com
http://www.project77.com

Diese Mitteilung ist ein "SNN Kurzinfo fuer Abonnenten". Unsere
regulaere Ausgabe (SNN Nr. 10) werden Sie in den naechsten Tagen
erhalten. Diese Ausgabe sollte einiges zu bieten haben. Ausserdem
werden wir im SNN Nr. 10 anfangen, in jeder Ausgabe einen
vollstaendigen Rueckblick ueber bisher vorgestellte Aktien
bekanntzugeben.

WERTPAPIERKENNUMMERN
Einige unsere Abonnenten haben um Bekanntgabe der Wertpapierkennummer
der im SNN vorgestellten Aktien gebeten. Die WPKN fuer die oben
aufgefuehrten Aktien sind:

NLAB  -  NuOncology Labs Inc.  -  WPKN 67057T107
USDI  -  US Digital Communications Inc.  -  WPKN 90332A107


Durch Ihr Abonnement bestaetigen Sie, unsere Haftungsausschluss-
erklaerung gelesen und vollinhaltlich verstanden zu haben. SNN
erhaelt von einigen der vorgestellten Unternehmen ein Honorar
fuer die Weitergabe von Informationen ueber diese Unternehmen
an Privatpersonen oder Finanzmakler. Bei den im SNN vorgestellten
Aktien handelt es sich um Werte junger Unternehmen, die noch
nicht lange an der Boerse gehandelt werden. Diese Werte sollten
als  hochriskante" Investition betrachtet werden. Es ist moeglich,
dass der Anleger beim Kauf dieser Aktien sein Investitionskapital
ganz oder teilweise verliert. Die vollstaendige Haftungsausschluss-
erklaerung finden Sie unter
http://3464799143/disclaimer98/index-de.html

Um Ihr Abonnement zu kuendigen, schreiben Sie bitte 'unsubscribe'
in die Betreffzeile und senden diese Mitteilung an: g74232@usa.net
______________________________________________




Copyright SNN  1998
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:57:06 +0000
Reply-To:     connolly@neca.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dan Connolly <connolly@NECA.COM>
Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

Sandra Topping wrote:
>
> Dan:
>
> If using CINDEX, definitely create separate indexes.  It does make the
> likelihood of error less if you enter data in two passes: first the names in
> their index , then the subject entries in theirs.

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of attempting it in one pass, but maybe
this time I need to be ultra-careful. I really want to do a good job.

>
> As for pay, if you have to enter "Smith, Brown, Jones and Flugelhoopfer, 1997"
> and then cross-check that entry against a bibliography, resolve any spelling
> differences (it's amazing how often "Jones" is misspelled), then add initials
> for each name and break the single entry into 4 separate entries -- don't do
> it for less than $1/page!  If you have 3-4 multiple entries per page which
> then have to be broken up, the name index can easily become 16-20 separate
> entries per page, and $.05 per entry is pretty low.  Especially in the social
> sciences, doing the name index can eat more time than a dragon can kill
> peasants.

I haven't seen this particular book yet, but from my knowledge of books of
this type, this is what it will be like.

>
> Oh, and yes, making sure the names are spelled correctly is vital.  From my
> experience working at a major university, I can verify that many professors
> scan the name indexes of potential textbooks FIRST to see how many times they
> are cited.  This is how they determine the "quality" of the text.
>

Thanks so much.

Dan
--

=========================================
Daniel A. Connolly
mailto:connolly@neca.com
WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services
www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com
Woodstock, CT, USA
=========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:55:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: use of word "listserv".

This whole bit of "Xerox" vs "xerox", et al, sounds silly.

Smacks of MacDonald's attempting to control its name usage in Scotland.

Cheers,
Dave T.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:55:10 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      NOT SPAM: HTML Resource Info

Joe Burns is a remarkable and VERY energetic person; his "Goodies" site
has been up and running for some time and I have mentioned it before.
One of the best Net resources for HTML stuff, including tutorials.
I've forwarded it intact, except for snipping the header, in order to
preserve subscription info.

Cheers to all,
Dave T.

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject: Goodies to Go! Newsletter #1
Date:    11-Nov-98 at 11:58
From:    The htmlgoodies Announcement List,
 INTERNET:GOODIES-LISTSERV.EARTHWEB.COM

<SNIP>
____________________________________________________________

   This newsletter is sponsored by EarthWeb's ITKnowledge.
____________________________________________________________


               G O O D I E S   T O   G O ! (tm)

                    November 9, 1998 - #1

************************************************************
          Please visit http://www.htmlgoodies.com.
************************************************************

Part of EarthWeb's Family of Online Services for IT Insiders

http://www.developer.com      http://www.htmlgoodies.com
http://www.datamation.com     http://www.intranetjournal.com
http://www.gamelan.com        http://www.javascripts.com
http://www.javagoodies.com    http://www.jars.com
http://www.roadcoders.com     http://www.developerdirect.com
http://www.itknowledge.com

************************************************************
Access the world's largest and most current collection of
online technical books and source code. Get your FREE two
week trial today at http://www.dcj.itksub.com
************************************************************

GREETINGS WEEKEND SILICON WARRIORS...

It's Monday night, November 9th and I'm sitting here in my
living room composing the first "Goodies to Go" weekly
e-mail newsletter. Of course it won't really be "weekly"
until I put out a second one next week. Then we can
technically call it weekly.

Here's my dilemma...what should go in this newsletter?  What
do you want to know?  What can I write in one night's work
so I can be sure to get it out on a weekly basis.  Oh sure,
I've subscribed to these things before and know the basics.
I'll of course tell you what's new on the Goodies site.  When
I post new JavaScripts to JavaGoodies.com, I'll let you know.
But I don't know that just an update sheet will be so much
fun to read.

It's my opinion that to do that, to make it fun, I'll need
to get more than just me involved in the creation of the
newsletter. I thought about hiring a full staff of people
that look like me, but that seemed silly.

So I thought it would be nice if I could get you all
involved.  I want to set up some folders so you can send me
tips, stories and the like.  I would then copy and paste a
few of those comments into the newsletter each week along
with the authors name and e-mail address (of course if you
don't want you e-mail address posted, I won't.)

Here are some topics I was thinking might be good:

 >>>>> Tip of the week!
    Tips from you on how you've used Goodies to put
 together your own cool website.

 >>>>> Look At This Site!
    We can analyze a really great website and see
 how the creators put it all together.

    >>>>> Help Me!
    Something kind of like "Ask the Experts" but
 we'll all be requesting help on an HTML topic from
 each other.

    >>>>> Read This!
    Short reviews of tutorials or books that have been
    especially helpful to you.

    >>>>> My Opinions!
    Give your opinion on some topic related to the web
 and website building -- or ask for mine.

I might use all of the topics listed above, and then
again I might not use any. We'll see what happens.
So let's get this thing started right. Send me e-mail
at jburns@htmlgoodies.com that falls under one or more
of these topics. If you can think of a better topic,
send that along too.

Please remember that sending an e-mail to me is permission
to reprint that e-mail, your name, and your e-mail address
unless stated otherwise in your letter. Please send me your
real name.  I feel silly attributing an e-mail to someone
named "Free_Willie".  Also remember that this will probably
cause a flood of e-mail that I will keep to use in the
future.  If yours isn't used right away, it may just be that
I am saving it for later.  You send it, I keep it. I also
reserve the right to not use any e-mails that I don't think
are appropriate.

This newsletter will probably go through a couple of
different looks before we arrive at the format I think is
best. So stay tuned. It should be a fun ride. I intend to
create something that's informative, entertaining, and
something you can truly look forward to reading every week.

>>>>>Next Week:   So You Wanted Me to Write a Book, huh?

The HTML Goodies book is now available. It's going to be
ready for you to buy and place under your Christmas tree...
to keep it straight. Just kidding. It's being published by
Macmillan and EarthWeb Press. Next week I'll give you the
scoop on the new book and tell you where we'll be having
some live events to show it off.


  Keep Smiling...

  Joe Burns, Ph.D.

"And Remember -- The company that manufactures the greatest
number of women's dresses each year is Mattel. Barbie's got
to wear something."

************************************************************
Access the world's largest and most current collection of
online technical books and source code. Get your FREE two
week trial today at http://www.dcj.itksub.com
************************************************************

To Subscribe to the "Goodies to Go" newsletter, send mail to
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Don't forget to replace "Your Name" with your name!

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"SIGNOFF GOODIES-L" in the body (not the subject line) of
the message. Please don't hit "reply" to this message!

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mail to GOODIES-L-request@earthweb.com with a description
of the problems you're having.
____________________________________________________________

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____________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:14:15 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sharon Hughes <SHughes512@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: German Bonds?? how'd that get here

In a message dated 98-11-12 16:37:55 EST, matty@AXISCORP.CO.JP writes:

<<  Um Ihr Abonnement zu kuendigen, schreiben Sie bitte 'unsubscribe'
 in die Betreffzeile und senden diese Mitteilung an: g74232@usa.net >>

  Now that's salesmanship!  How'd they get on our list?
                                 Sharon
 Even if I did like the practice.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:28:23 LCL
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"
In-Reply-To:  <199811111451.GAA06221@nccn.net>

At 09:49 AM 11/11/98 -0500, Eileen Lutzow wrote:
>. . .
>Since this list worries about the appropriate use of words, I thought
>I'd mention that using "listserv" in this manner is akin to using
>"kleenex" or "xerox" -- commonly done, but not technically legal.
>Listserv(R) is a registered trademark name for the software that *runs*
>electronic discussion lists.  There are several brands of software that
>could be used, with Listserv(R) being the one used by INDEX-L (and my
>other list, AUTOCAT).  Some alternative suggestions made on AUTOCAT for
>the mail managed by Listserv(R) and other brands of software were:
>electronic discussion list, e-list, e-mail list, list, electronic mail
>list, and several others which I've forgotten.

How 'bout using the term "forum" as in "electronic forum" or "e-mail
forum"?  Isn't "forum" a much better word for a discussion group than
"list" (let alone "listserv")?

Michael


Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA  95945
530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:37:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         indexer@INETCOM.NET
Subject:      Re: Concordance to Joyce (fictional)

Mary Mortenson wrote:
>Did anyone else hear "Prairie Home Companion" on public radio (in the U.S.)
>this weekend?

I heard it twice last weekend!.  It was part of a pro-hunting News From Lake
Wobegone extolling the tradition of hunting season opening day, including
several riffs poking fun at animal rights folks.  Sheldon was the name of
the guy who was working on the concordance.  He was described as missing
quite a bit more than a few screws, though he saved several people's lives
in the blizzard of 1940 on opening day of the Minnesota hunting season, in
which supposedly 49 some odd hunters died in a freak early blizzard.  As I
recall,  Keillor first said "a concordance, an index...", as if the two were
interchangable.  If they only had Cindex or Macrex or SkyIndex back then.
Then it would have been a snap!

Like most of the News From Lake Wobegone stories, this one had a very
poignant ending.  The storyteller goes out to kill and bury his old beloved
hunting dog but the dog senses what's up and resists being led out, making a
big scene.  Later in the woods the narrator finds an old empty shotgun shell
with a piece of paper inside.  It was a death note from many years before
when his father and brother (uncle?) had huddled at that exact spot
expecting to die during the blizzard of opening day 1940.

Kevin Mulrooney

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dyslexics of the world untie!

First State Indexing            (302) 738-2558
276 East Main Street            Indexer@inetcom.net
Newark, Delaware 19711          http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:29:35 +0000
Reply-To:     mil0409@ibm.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rebecca Miller <mil0409@IBM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Use of word "listserv"

APPLAUSE etc!!!Larry, thanks for giving me a good laugh at the end of a
stressful day. Your composition teacher would give you an A+, as I do. Rebecca

klrsak wrote:

> Re: Listserv, Xerox, etc.
> I'm having this reply copyrighted. Please don't share it with anyone before
> consulting my attorney. I want full credit for my originality and hard
> labor and prefer that it be useful to no one if not useful to me. There's a
> universe at stake here and I know the diff tween mine and not mine, every
> mite of which I intend to be to my full applause and profit.
>
> Posted by Larry - (This isn't public domain either, mind you. Please ask
> permission before abusing it [: please don't say, say, "I've Larried this"
> or "I'm Larrying that", not unless, of course, you give me full recognition
> as the author you are quoting. And please don't confuse me with any others
> who have been contibuting to your intelligence or well-being over the years
> at no cost. I like to think of myself as distinguished.]  How I - myself -
> came up with this name is my genius and no one else's. I'm not letting
> anyone think I might merely be borrowing it from others who were fool
> enough, with magnanimity, to not copyright an alphabet someone else was
> even more a fool to let just any Plato at all call his own idea. The
> Library o Congress [wasn't that original? I'm copyrighting it] is my first
> stop even in [recorded, mind you] conversation. It'd be ridiculous to
> simply give it, to anyone at all, knowing that they could steal something
> from me, perhaps even to their or anyone else's benefit, and not even have
> the gratitude to remember where they got it. When I die I'm gonna have a
> slab 700 feet high, with all *my* accomplishments engraved on it, in
> detail, iterating, for good measure, the message at my memorial service.
> Nor in my lifetime shall I incur the fate of Ozymandias through the
> unacknowledged or improper dissemination of my fine name. If used in
> concert with other notions than it's exclusive meaning, if taken out of
> context in itself, if mixed with any number of other concepts, if
> pronounced 'Arry', 'Shlarry', 'Yrral' or any other such concoction, I yet
> insist that my lawyer be first formally consulted and all proprieties be
> observed in my honor.
>                             Your thank-you due to my fame and significance
> -
>                             lacoG indexing
>                        klrsak@oneimage.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:29:01 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <199811121439.GAA20897@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>

At 14:31 11/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm wanting to get a second PC system, and would
>appreciate anyone's views/experiences on running it under W98 rather
>than a late version of W95. I've heard lot's of stability problems about
>W98 which obviously is till in the early stages of use. ANy
>recommendations on which Windows to install?

Even though we've discussed it here before, I'm posting my remarks to the
list in case there are other subscribers like you who haven't heard my
frequent rants about Win98. I'm on a personal campaign to try to discourage
as many people as possible from buying this poor excuse for an OS to
penalize Microsoft for rushing this bug-ridden, bloated product out the
door (probably so they wouldn't have to call it Windows 99).

What you heard is correct about stability problems with Win98. It is the
most rickety operating system I've ever used! I'm writing this fresh after
rebooting for the third or fourth time today after system crashes. The
system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer and storm
away in frustration. I have become so angry and fed up with this piece of
garbage that I've even had to take nitroglycerine after its crashes
Programs that never crashed under Win95 now crash constantly. It even
crashes when you're shutting the blasted system down, it's so unstable.

Win98 was inflicted on my husband and I when we bought new computers last
June. It came installed on the systems, so there *are* some users who have
problems even with a clean installation (not over another operating
system). My husband ran Win98's disk defragmenter which trashed his hard
drive to the point that he had to reformat the hard drive, losing three
years worth of Netscape bookmarks in the process. He was unable to access a
single file after "defragmenting".

Only two weeks ago, my system failed to bring up Windows except in Safe
Mode and my husband couldn't even reinstall Win98. It even refused to
uninstall itself so that he could do a clean install. It took him over a
week to get my system running again (fortunately without having to format
my hard drive). The only way he was able to get my system running was by
copying Windows from his system onto mine. This is the second or third time
he's had to reinstall Win98 on my system. I don't dare run its disk
destructor... er... defragmenter and am waiting until we buy a third-party
defragmenter.

I can't tell you how furious I am at Microsoft and that we made the mistake
of buying our computers just a few days after Win98 came out. (Had we known
when it was coming out, we would have bought our computers a week before.
Even without knowing just how bug-infested Win98 is, we didn't want to be
Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.)

Bottom line: don't buy Win98, at least not until the bug fixes and patches
come out.

Lynn


***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 05:33:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "W. Nadine Kruger" <winky@FRII.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Hi,

You know, I was thinking as I read this about Windows 98......it doesn't
sound much different than what I experience with Windows 95, Internet
Explorer 4.0, etc., etc.....  so if this is WORSE than Win95, you can bet I
won't be "upgrading." (And I use the term loosely....)  Working on the
internet.... working on this pc for hours in a row.... you soon see how
UNRELIABLE they can be and frustrating!!! (And as an Independent Contractor,
I don't get paid for "down time.")  What a horrible experience, Lynn!!!!!

Nadine

PS--I had planned to purchase a new PC in April of 99....do you think things
will be better with Win98 then?  Can I DEMAND Win95 for my system?  Hate not
having any CHOICES.... sigh!


<Lynn's Snip>


>Even though we've discussed it here before, I'm posting my remarks to the
>list in case there are other subscribers like you who haven't heard my
>frequent rants about Win98. I'm on a personal campaign to try to discourage
>as many people as possible from buying this poor excuse for an OS to
>penalize Microsoft for rushing this bug-ridden, bloated product out the
>door (probably so they wouldn't have to call it Windows 99).
>
>What you heard is correct about stability problems with Win98. It is the
>most rickety operating system I've ever used! I'm writing this fresh after
>rebooting for the third or fourth time today after system crashes. The
>system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer and storm
>away in frustration. I have become so angry and fed up with this piece of
>garbage that I've even had to take nitroglycerine after its crashes
>Programs that never crashed under Win95 now crash constantly. It even
>crashes when you're shutting the blasted system down, it's so unstable.
>
>Win98 was inflicted on my husband and I when we bought new computers last
>June. It came installed on the systems, so there *are* some users who have
>problems even with a clean installation (not over another operating
>system). My husband ran Win98's disk defragmenter which trashed his hard
>drive to the point that he had to reformat the hard drive, losing three
>years worth of Netscape bookmarks in the process. He was unable to access a
>single file after "defragmenting".
>
>Only two weeks ago, my system failed to bring up Windows except in Safe
>Mode and my husband couldn't even reinstall Win98. It even refused to
>uninstall itself so that he could do a clean install. It took him over a
>week to get my system running again (fortunately without having to format
>my hard drive). The only way he was able to get my system running was by
>copying Windows from his system onto mine. This is the second or third time
>he's had to reinstall Win98 on my system. I don't dare run its disk
>destructor... er... defragmenter and am waiting until we buy a third-party
>defragmenter.
>
>I can't tell you how furious I am at Microsoft and that we made the mistake
>of buying our computers just a few days after Win98 came out. (Had we known
>when it was coming out, we would have bought our computers a week before.
>Even without knowing just how bug-infested Win98 is, we didn't want to be
>Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.)
>
>Bottom line: don't buy Win98, at least not until the bug fixes and patches
>come out.
>
>Lynn
>
>
>***********************************
>Lynn Moncrief
>(techndex@pacbell.net)
>TECHindex & Docs
>Technical and Scientific Indexing
>***********************************
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:51:51 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dawn Spencer <Indexlady@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Win95 vs. Win98

Hi All!

I upgraded to Win98 and (so far!) it's just wonderful!

Wonder if it has to do with hardware or system configurations? I don't seem to
experience many of the software/hardware problems that others do.

Dawn Spencer
CHOICE INDEXING
indexlady@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/indexlady/
---------------
Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group
    of the American Society of Indexers
tennwords@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html
---------------
author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/indexing (NEW URL)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:59:35 -0500
Reply-To:     varney@mindspring.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         J Flenner <varney@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Hello all you pc users--

I have never had *any* problems with upgrades to my MacOS & Netscape
combination; have you considered switching?  Yes, I'm linited to 2 choices in
index-dedicated software, but everything is *reliable*--which is of primary
importance to me.

Jackie Flenner
Asheville, NC



W. Nadine Kruger wrote:

> PS--I had planned to purchase a new PC in April of 99....do you think things
> will be better with Win98 then?  Can I DEMAND Win95 for my system?  Hate not
> having any CHOICES.... sigh!
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:11:12 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "W. Nadine Kruger" <winky@FRII.COM>
Subject:      Win98 vs. Win95

Unfortunately, I am stuck with Internet Explorer 4.0....I would prefer
Netscape, honestly....but my company's extranet software works best with IE
4.0....at least, that's how it's configured anyway!!!  (I worked on solely
Mac when I was in the Newspaper world... DID always like them!)

(This may be the second time I have sent this to the discussion group.....if
so, disregard.  I'm getting confused with all these LISTSERV groups....)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:44:24 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

That's right about "unpaid beta testers" ... how often one finds that
situation.  Remember the scandal about AOL (America Online) .. I was one of
the "victims" but I did not participate in the class action lawsuit.  I was
constantly calling their so-called "customer support" (this was in 1996) and
was so insulted by their twentysomething help desk idiots that I either
"didn't know" what they routinely knew or else if I had a technical
question, it was something I "didn't need to know" ...

Anyhoo, thank you for the warnings.  I am still clunking along doing my
at-home indexing on Win 3.1 and NEVER NEVER NEVER have a problem.  Of
course, I am running a small laptop and only use the thing for word
processing or indexing (CINDEX).

I am awaiting the OS messiah (sorry, Lord not to blaspheme your name)  and
wonder if we all will survive Y2K ...

M. Jessie Barczak
Research Analyst
Powell Tate Washington
202-434-8533
jbarczak@washington.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lynn Moncrief [SMTP:techndex@PACBELL.NET]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:29 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
>
> At 14:31 11/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >I'm wanting to get a second PC system, and would
> >appreciate anyone's views/experiences on running it under W98 rather
> >than a late version of W95. I've heard lot's of stability problems about
> >W98 which obviously is till in the early stages of use. ANy
> >recommendations on which Windows to install?
>
> Even though we've discussed it here before, I'm posting my remarks to the
> list in case there are other subscribers like you who haven't heard my
> frequent rants about Win98. I'm on a personal campaign to try to
> discourage
> as many people as possible from buying this poor excuse for an OS to
> penalize Microsoft for rushing this bug-ridden, bloated product out the
> door (probably so they wouldn't have to call it Windows 99).
>
> What you heard is correct about stability problems with Win98. It is the
> most rickety operating system I've ever used! I'm writing this fresh after
> rebooting for the third or fourth time today after system crashes. The
> system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer and storm
> away in frustration. I have become so angry and fed up with this piece of
> garbage that I've even had to take nitroglycerine after its crashes
> Programs that never crashed under Win95 now crash constantly. It even
> crashes when you're shutting the blasted system down, it's so unstable.
>
> Win98 was inflicted on my husband and I when we bought new computers last
> June. It came installed on the systems, so there *are* some users who have
> problems even with a clean installation (not over another operating
> system). My husband ran Win98's disk defragmenter which trashed his hard
> drive to the point that he had to reformat the hard drive, losing three
> years worth of Netscape bookmarks in the process. He was unable to access
> a
> single file after "defragmenting".
>
> Only two weeks ago, my system failed to bring up Windows except in Safe
> Mode and my husband couldn't even reinstall Win98. It even refused to
> uninstall itself so that he could do a clean install. It took him over a
> week to get my system running again (fortunately without having to format
> my hard drive). The only way he was able to get my system running was by
> copying Windows from his system onto mine. This is the second or third
> time
> he's had to reinstall Win98 on my system. I don't dare run its disk
> destructor... er... defragmenter and am waiting until we buy a third-party
> defragmenter.
>
> I can't tell you how furious I am at Microsoft and that we made the
> mistake
> of buying our computers just a few days after Win98 came out. (Had we
> known
> when it was coming out, we would have bought our computers a week before.
> Even without knowing just how bug-infested Win98 is, we didn't want to be
> Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.)
>
> Bottom line: don't buy Win98, at least not until the bug fixes and patches
> come out.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> ***********************************
> Lynn Moncrief
> (techndex@pacbell.net)
> TECHindex & Docs
> Technical and Scientific Indexing
> ***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:52:00 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Nadine (and all)

See my prior posting.  I have heard nothing but wailing and gnashing of
teeth about Win 95 and 98 and even NT for the last 3 years.  Are we so
stupid (you know I don't mean the subscribers to this listserv [registered
trademark]) that we can't see a lemon when we have one?

as I said in my other posting, Win 3.1 is a great operating system if you
only use it for static computing (it can even basically multitask depending
on your cpu's capacity) as I do:  I only use my home computer for work
and/or sending out resumes.  I have win nt at work and use that for email
and internet.  I guess I have weaned myself off of the internet for home
use; if I don't ever have a job that allows me to use the internet then I'm
sunk but certainly not depressed!

Happy holidays to you all (let me be the first to get into the holiday
spirit)!  Don't take any Win 98 (used to be: don't take any wooden nickels)!

M. Jessie Barczak
Research Analyst
Powell Tate Washington
202-434-8533
jbarczak@washington.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: W. Nadine Kruger [SMTP:winky@FRII.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:33 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
>
> Hi,
>
> You know, I was thinking as I read this about Windows 98......it doesn't
> sound much different than what I experience with Windows 95, Internet
> Explorer 4.0, etc., etc.....  so if this is WORSE than Win95, you can bet
> I
> won't be "upgrading." (And I use the term loosely....)  Working on the
> internet.... working on this pc for hours in a row.... you soon see how
> UNRELIABLE they can be and frustrating!!! (And as an Independent
> Contractor,
> I don't get paid for "down time.")  What a horrible experience, Lynn!!!!!
>
> Nadine
>
> PS--I had planned to purchase a new PC in April of 99....do you think
> things
> will be better with Win98 then?  Can I DEMAND Win95 for my system?  Hate
> not
> having any CHOICES.... sigh!
>
>
> <Lynn's Snip>
>
>
> >Even though we've discussed it here before, I'm posting my remarks to the
> >list in case there are other subscribers like you who haven't heard my
> >frequent rants about Win98. I'm on a personal campaign to try to
> discourage
> >as many people as possible from buying this poor excuse for an OS to
> >penalize Microsoft for rushing this bug-ridden, bloated product out the
> >door (probably so they wouldn't have to call it Windows 99).
> >
> >What you heard is correct about stability problems with Win98. It is the
> >most rickety operating system I've ever used! I'm writing this fresh
> after
> >rebooting for the third or fourth time today after system crashes. The
> >system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer and storm
> >away in frustration. I have become so angry and fed up with this piece of
> >garbage that I've even had to take nitroglycerine after its crashes
> >Programs that never crashed under Win95 now crash constantly. It even
> >crashes when you're shutting the blasted system down, it's so unstable.
> >
> >Win98 was inflicted on my husband and I when we bought new computers last
> >June. It came installed on the systems, so there *are* some users who
> have
> >problems even with a clean installation (not over another operating
> >system). My husband ran Win98's disk defragmenter which trashed his hard
> >drive to the point that he had to reformat the hard drive, losing three
> >years worth of Netscape bookmarks in the process. He was unable to access
> a
> >single file after "defragmenting".
> >
> >Only two weeks ago, my system failed to bring up Windows except in Safe
> >Mode and my husband couldn't even reinstall Win98. It even refused to
> >uninstall itself so that he could do a clean install. It took him over a
> >week to get my system running again (fortunately without having to format
> >my hard drive). The only way he was able to get my system running was by
> >copying Windows from his system onto mine. This is the second or third
> time
> >he's had to reinstall Win98 on my system. I don't dare run its disk
> >destructor... er... defragmenter and am waiting until we buy a
> third-party
> >defragmenter.
> >
> >I can't tell you how furious I am at Microsoft and that we made the
> mistake
> >of buying our computers just a few days after Win98 came out. (Had we
> known
> >when it was coming out, we would have bought our computers a week before.
> >Even without knowing just how bug-infested Win98 is, we didn't want to be
> >Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.)
> >
> >Bottom line: don't buy Win98, at least not until the bug fixes and
> patches
> >come out.
> >
> >Lynn
> >
> >
> >***********************************
> >Lynn Moncrief
> >(techndex@pacbell.net)
> >TECHindex & Docs
> >Technical and Scientific Indexing
> >***********************************
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:10:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <364C2D13.F5D3028D@mindspring.com>

>I have never had *any* problems with upgrades to my MacOS & Netscape
>combination; have you considered switching?  Yes, I'm linited to 2 choices in


I second this, Jackie. I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all
the trouble people have with their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but just
simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I don't
understand the resistance. Even the price has become comparable. I never
have a problem adding software, changing op systems, adding peripherals,
finding the software I need. My machine never crashes except when Navigator
is running and gets too full, but that's Netscape's problem, not the Mac's.
Come on over to our side. We are all fine, happy, healthy, have all our
hair, and our children grow up to be fine citizens. And our cats don't blow
out our monitors.

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:18:16 -0500
Reply-To:     kamm@sky-software.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kamm Y. Schreiner" <skysoft@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Win95 vs. Win98
In-Reply-To:  <199811131252.HAA04695@mx01.erols.com>

<Dawn Spencer said>

  I upgraded to Win98 and (so far!) it's just wonderful!

  I don't seem to
  experience many of the software/hardware problems that others do.

Same here Dawn. I installed Windows 98 on the day it was released and saw
only improvements I'm happy with it and will never go back to Win95. I guess
there are two sides to every coin.

Sincerely,

Kamm Schreiner

SKY Software
6016 Oxpen Ct, #303
Alexandria, VA 22315

email: kamm@sky-software.com <mailto:kamm@sky-software.com>
web: http://www.sky-software.com
phone: 800-776-0137 or 703-921-9472
fax: 703-921-9472
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:22:35 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Yes, you can request Win95.  Some places charge extra, some don't.  If you
order through a mail order place (like Gateway, Quantex, Micron, etc.), I
don't think they charge extra since they custom build their computers,
anyway.  Even places like Circuit City and Best Buy will let you order a
different OS, though.

-- Sharon W.
        x7255
        Rm. 223
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: W. Nadine Kruger [SMTP:winky@FRII.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 7:33 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
>
> Hi,
>
> You know, I was thinking as I read this about Windows 98......it doesn't
> sound much different than what I experience with Windows 95, Internet
> Explorer 4.0, etc., etc.....  so if this is WORSE than Win95, you can bet
> I
> won't be "upgrading." (And I use the term loosely....)  Working on the
> internet.... working on this pc for hours in a row.... you soon see how
> UNRELIABLE they can be and frustrating!!! (And as an Independent
> Contractor,
> I don't get paid for "down time.")  What a horrible experience, Lynn!!!!!
>
> Nadine
>
> PS--I had planned to purchase a new PC in April of 99....do you think
> things
> will be better with Win98 then?  Can I DEMAND Win95 for my system?  Hate
> not
> having any CHOICES.... sigh!
>
>
> <Lynn's Snip>
>
>
> >Even though we've discussed it here before, I'm posting my remarks to the
> >list in case there are other subscribers like you who haven't heard my
> >frequent rants about Win98. I'm on a personal campaign to try to
> discourage
> >as many people as possible from buying this poor excuse for an OS to
> >penalize Microsoft for rushing this bug-ridden, bloated product out the
> >door (probably so they wouldn't have to call it Windows 99).
> >
> >What you heard is correct about stability problems with Win98. It is the
> >most rickety operating system I've ever used! I'm writing this fresh
> after
> >rebooting for the third or fourth time today after system crashes. The
> >system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer and storm
> >away in frustration. I have become so angry and fed up with this piece of
> >garbage that I've even had to take nitroglycerine after its crashes
> >Programs that never crashed under Win95 now crash constantly. It even
> >crashes when you're shutting the blasted system down, it's so unstable.
> >
> >Win98 was inflicted on my husband and I when we bought new computers last
> >June. It came installed on the systems, so there *are* some users who
> have
> >problems even with a clean installation (not over another operating
> >system). My husband ran Win98's disk defragmenter which trashed his hard
> >drive to the point that he had to reformat the hard drive, losing three
> >years worth of Netscape bookmarks in the process. He was unable to access
> a
> >single file after "defragmenting".
> >
> >Only two weeks ago, my system failed to bring up Windows except in Safe
> >Mode and my husband couldn't even reinstall Win98. It even refused to
> >uninstall itself so that he could do a clean install. It took him over a
> >week to get my system running again (fortunately without having to format
> >my hard drive). The only way he was able to get my system running was by
> >copying Windows from his system onto mine. This is the second or third
> time
> >he's had to reinstall Win98 on my system. I don't dare run its disk
> >destructor... er... defragmenter and am waiting until we buy a
> third-party
> >defragmenter.
> >
> >I can't tell you how furious I am at Microsoft and that we made the
> mistake
> >of buying our computers just a few days after Win98 came out. (Had we
> known
> >when it was coming out, we would have bought our computers a week before.
> >Even without knowing just how bug-infested Win98 is, we didn't want to be
> >Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.)
> >
> >Bottom line: don't buy Win98, at least not until the bug fixes and
> patches
> >come out.
> >
> >Lynn
> >
> >
> >***********************************
> >Lynn Moncrief
> >(techndex@pacbell.net)
> >TECHindex & Docs
> >Technical and Scientific Indexing
> >***********************************
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:23:53 -0500
Reply-To:     varney@mindspring.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         J Flenner <varney@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Rachel Rice wrote:

> I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all the trouble people have with
> their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but just
> simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I don't
> understand the resistance.. . .
> Come on over to our side. We are all fine, happy, healthy, have all our
> hair, and our children grow up to be fine citizens. And our cats don't blow
> out our monitors.

HOWEVER, my cat *does* love to sprawl on my (his?) keyboard--maybe that never
happens on PCs, only on Macs???

Jackie F.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:30:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

Even though I haven't used Macs much, I'm inclined to agree that they have
the superior operating system and software design.  When I started this job
several years ago, I didn't know a lot about computers (from an operating
system and hardware point of view).  I'm learning, and the more I learn, the
more convinced I am that Bill Gate and Microsoft are not superior software
or operating system designers, they are superior marketers.

I wish I had the option of using a Mac, but my company has a "strategic
alliance" with Microsoft and all of our corporate systems are
Microsoft-oriented, so I'm kind of stuck.  I'm not going to invest in a home
computer that I can't use for work purposes, and I'm sure I'm not the only
one who has been faced with that situation.  In the meantime, I'll keep
plugging along and looking for that OS messiah to lead us out of the
wilderness!  :-)

-- Sharon W.
        x7255
        Rm. 223
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rachel Rice [SMTP:racric@TOGETHER.NET]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:10 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
>
> >I have never had *any* problems with upgrades to my MacOS & Netscape
> >combination; have you considered switching?  Yes, I'm linited to 2
> choices in
>
>
> I second this, Jackie. I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all
> the trouble people have with their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but just
> simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I don't
> understand the resistance. Even the price has become comparable. I never
> have a problem adding software, changing op systems, adding peripherals,
> finding the software I need. My machine never crashes except when
> Navigator
> is running and gets too full, but that's Netscape's problem, not the
> Mac's.
> Come on over to our side. We are all fine, happy, healthy, have all our
> hair, and our children grow up to be fine citizens. And our cats don't
> blow
> out our monitors.
>
> Rachel
>
>  Rachel Rice
>  Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
>  Indexing, editing, proofreading
>  http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:54:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

I thought the new Macs were compatible with Microsoft?  Wasn't that their
newest marketing ploy?

I am a Mac lover (but in no financial condition to buy a new system)
Anyway, I'm waiting for the plasma skinny screen monitors to come down in
price.  I HATE that big tee vee up on my desk (we are cramped for space at
home) ...

M. Jessie Barczak
Research Analyst
Powell Tate Washington
202-434-8533
jbarczak@washington.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wright, Sharon F. [SMTP:Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:30 AM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
>
> Even though I haven't used Macs much, I'm inclined to agree that they have
> the superior operating system and software design.  When I started this
> job
> several years ago, I didn't know a lot about computers (from an operating
> system and hardware point of view).  I'm learning, and the more I learn,
> the
> more convinced I am that Bill Gate and Microsoft are not superior software
> or operating system designers, they are superior marketers.
>
> I wish I had the option of using a Mac, but my company has a "strategic
> alliance" with Microsoft and all of our corporate systems are
> Microsoft-oriented, so I'm kind of stuck.  I'm not going to invest in a
> home
> computer that I can't use for work purposes, and I'm sure I'm not the only
> one who has been faced with that situation.  In the meantime, I'll keep
> plugging along and looking for that OS messiah to lead us out of the
> wilderness!  :-)
>
> -- Sharon W.
>         x7255
>         Rm. 223
> Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rachel Rice [SMTP:racric@TOGETHER.NET]
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:10 AM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
> >
> > >I have never had *any* problems with upgrades to my MacOS & Netscape
> > >combination; have you considered switching?  Yes, I'm linited to 2
> > choices in
> >
> >
> > I second this, Jackie. I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all
> > the trouble people have with their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but
> just
> > simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I
> don't
> > understand the resistance. Even the price has become comparable. I never
> > have a problem adding software, changing op systems, adding peripherals,
> > finding the software I need. My machine never crashes except when
> > Navigator
> > is running and gets too full, but that's Netscape's problem, not the
> > Mac's.
> > Come on over to our side. We are all fine, happy, healthy, have all our
> > hair, and our children grow up to be fine citizens. And our cats don't
> > blow
> > out our monitors.
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> >  Rachel Rice
> >  Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
> >  Indexing, editing, proofreading
> >  http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:35:15 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten

Hey all,

Since I don't speak any german at all, but my husband does, I forwarded the
message on to him, and asked him what it meant. Below is his _supposed_
translation, which somehow relates this spam to ....indexing???

>
>It's about "NuOncology Labs Inc" of course!
>
>Actually it says:
>
>Der geindexen ist im der backaderbook und es ist gehen von A aus Z und
>habben alle die differenten geworden in der orderalphabatenzug.  Der
>bookgereader woll alles die worden upgelookin und Sie alles "zee gealso"
>gefinden. dahn gehen der bookgereader aus den korrectpagen gehen mach
>schnell.
>
>Alles gut, nicht var?
>
>8-)
>
>
>
>> ----------
>> So you got any ideas what this message is about???
>>
>> >Return-Path: <owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>> >Date:         Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:29:50 EST
>> >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group"
>> <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>> >Sender: "Indexer's Discussion Group" <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>> >From: matty@AXISCORP.CO.JP
>> >Subject:      SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten
>> >X-To:         congo@msn.com
>> >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>> <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>> >
>> >Diese Nachricht wird automatisch und AUSSCHLIESSLICH an
>> >unsere Abonnenten versandt.  Hinweise zur Abbestellung
>> >finden Sie am Ende dieser Seite.
>> >
>> >
>> >SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten  -
>> >11. November 1998
>> >
>> >
>> >Alle Preisangaben in US-Dollar bei Boersenschluss am
>> >11. November 1998
>> >
>> >
>> >Die letzten beiden von SNN vorgestellten Werte haben sich
>> >sehr gut entwickelt, und wir bringen Ihnen heute ein kurzes
>> >Update.
>> >
>> >NuOncology Labs Inc. (NLAB - OTC BB) ist in den vergangenen
>> >drei Wochen nach oben geklettert und erreichte von einem Stand
>> >von ca. $ 4,25 am 19. Oktober heute einen neuen Hoechstkurs
>> >von $ 7,875 bei gutem Umsatz. Jetzt, wo Investoren NLAB langsam
>> >die Aufmerksamkeit schenken, die diese Aktie unserer Meinung
>> >nach verdient, sollte der Aufwaertstrend anhalten.
>> >Wir erwarten, Ihnen bald Neues von diesem Unternehmen berichten
>> >zu koennen. Weitere Informationen ueber NuOncology Labs Inc.
>> >finden Sie unter http://206.132.179.167/disclaimer98/nulab-de.html
>> >
>> >
>> >Eine weitere Gesellschaft, die im SNN kuerzlich unter die Lupe
>> >genommen wurde, US Digital Communications (USDI - OTC BB),
>> >bewegte sich bei guten Umsaetzen von einem Stand von $4,00
>> >am Tage, als SNN ueber dieses Unternehmen berichtete (26. Oktober)
>> >auf heute $ 5,28. Es besteht weiterhin lebhaftes Interesse an
>> >diesem Unternehmen und dem neuen Iridium Satelliten-Telefonsystem.
>> >Die letzte Pressemitteilung der Gesellschaft (vom 9. November)
>> >finden Sie unter http://finanzen.yahoo.de/. Geben Sie dazu das
>> >Unternehmenskuerzel (USDI) ein. Weitere Infos ueber das Iridium-
>> >Projekt und die Tochtergesellschaften von USDI finden Sie unter:
>> >http://www.iridium.com
>> >http://www.skysite.com
>> >http://www.project77.com
>> >
>> >Diese Mitteilung ist ein "SNN Kurzinfo fuer Abonnenten". Unsere
>> >regulaere Ausgabe (SNN Nr. 10) werden Sie in den naechsten Tagen
>> >erhalten. Diese Ausgabe sollte einiges zu bieten haben. Ausserdem
>> >werden wir im SNN Nr. 10 anfangen, in jeder Ausgabe einen
>> >vollstaendigen Rueckblick ueber bisher vorgestellte Aktien
>> >bekanntzugeben.
>> >
>> >WERTPAPIERKENNUMMERN
>> >Einige unsere Abonnenten haben um Bekanntgabe der Wertpapierkennummer
>> >der im SNN vorgestellten Aktien gebeten. Die WPKN fuer die oben
>> >aufgefuehrten Aktien sind:
>> >
>> >NLAB  -  NuOncology Labs Inc.  -  WPKN 67057T107
>> >USDI  -  US Digital Communications Inc.  -  WPKN 90332A107
>> >
>> >
>> >Durch Ihr Abonnement bestaetigen Sie, unsere Haftungsausschluss-
>> >erklaerung gelesen und vollinhaltlich verstanden zu haben. SNN
>> >erhaelt von einigen der vorgestellten Unternehmen ein Honorar
>> >fuer die Weitergabe von Informationen ueber diese Unternehmen
>> >an Privatpersonen oder Finanzmakler. Bei den im SNN vorgestellten
>> >Aktien handelt es sich um Werte junger Unternehmen, die noch
>> >nicht lange an der Boerse gehandelt werden. Diese Werte sollten
>> >als  hochriskante" Investition betrachtet werden. Es ist moeglich,
>> >dass der Anleger beim Kauf dieser Aktien sein Investitionskapital
>> >ganz oder teilweise verliert. Die vollstaendige Haftungsausschluss-
>> >erklaerung finden Sie unter
>> >http://3464799143/disclaimer98/index-de.html
>> >
>> >Um Ihr Abonnement zu kuendigen, schreiben Sie bitte 'unsubscribe'
>> >in die Betreffzeile und senden diese Mitteilung an: g74232@usa.net
>> >______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Copyright SNN  1998
>> >
>>
>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>> Wright Information Indexing Services
>> http://www.wrightinformation.com
>> +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
>>
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:46:41 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95 vs. Mac
In-Reply-To:  <199811131412.JAA07151@camel9.mindspring.com>

Just a note to all Mac users -- we had system 8.5 eat our hard drive and
were down for 3 days trying to get it back. So no, Mac users are not immune
to this kind of thing. I was able to get online on my beloved PC running
Win 95, and in the MacInTouch forum I read horror stories of lots of other
people having problems with the new Mac system upgrade. Should have gone
and read that first, I suppose, but most Mac system upgrades are painless.
Till now.

I love Macs, I started out on Macs, but after 14 years of running both, I
can honestly say that the crash rate is EXACTLY the same. Both my mac and
Pc are fairly stable, and I get one to two freezes per week on both. (This
is pre 8.5. Since 8.5 things are weird on the mac). So, your mileage may
vary.....

Jan Wright

At 09:10 AM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I have never had *any* problems with upgrades to my MacOS & Netscape
>>combination; have you considered switching?  Yes, I'm linited to 2
choices in
>
>
>I second this, Jackie. I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all
>the trouble people have with their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but just
>simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I don't
>understand the resistance. Even the price has become comparable. I never
>have a problem adding software, changing op systems, adding peripherals,
>finding the software I need. My machine never crashes except when Navigator
>is running and gets too full, but that's Netscape's problem, not the Mac's.
>Come on over to our side. We are all fine, happy, healthy, have all our
>hair, and our children grow up to be fine citizens. And our cats don't blow
>out our monitors.
>
>Rachel
>
> Rachel Rice
> Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
> Indexing, editing, proofreading
> http://homepages.together.net/~racric
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:02:13 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten

Jan C. Wright offered her husband's free translation, or summary, of the
strange German communication we all received:

<>Der geindexen ist im der backaderbook und es ist gehen von A aus Z und
>habben alle die differenten geworden in der orderalphabatenzug.  Der
>bookgereader woll alles die worden upgelookin und Sie alles "zee gealso"
>gefinden. dahn gehen der bookgereader aus den korrectpagen gehen mach
>schnell.
>
I think that's hysterical. But, of course, the original text had nothing to
do with indexing (at least in the sense in which we use the term on this
list). It's just a very boring message about advice on investment (I don't
think it's worth translating the whole thing). At the end it
gives instructions on how to unsubscribe, and it says that it is
"exclusively for subscribers". It seems to have come to us in error,
or maybe someone with a weird sense of humour forwarded it to the list.

Christine

************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB, UK
e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk
****************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:16:37 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Adams, Michael" <MAdams@POBOX.GSUC.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Urban Library Journal

Please excuse cross-postings.

Urban Library Journal,  a refereed journal of research and discussion
dealing with all aspects of urban libraries and librarianship,  welcomes
articles dealing with academic,  research,  public,  school,  and
special libraries in an urban setting.

Urban Library Journal,  formerly known as Urban Academic Librarian, also
invites submissions in broader areas such as public higher education,
urban studies,  multiculturalism,  library and educational services to
immigrants,  preservation of public higher education,  and universal
access to World Wide Web resources.

Topics for columns and special issues will also be entertained.

Urban Library Journal will publish two issues annually.

Manuscripts,  editorial correspondence,  and comments should be
addressed to Dr. Michael Adams,  Mina Rees Library,  CUNY Graduate
Center,  33 W. 42nd St.,  New York,  NY 10036-8003 or 212-642-2878 or
madams@pobox.gsuc.cuny.edu.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:23:26 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Das Backenbuchen Gewortenthingum

Jan -

Jawohl!!  Tausend Dank!!  Ich habe das geworten und backenbuchindex
translation gereaden, und Ich habe auf der floor gerollen und die sides
geschplitten mit laughen!  Du bist eine lucky frau such einer wacky Mann mit
off-die-Wand sense of humor zuhaben!

Nicht Vergessen:  Today die Backenbuche - - Tomorrow die ganze Buch!!

Bob (Der Alte Kurmudgeon) Richardson
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:28:44 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pamela Venneman <Psvenndex@AOL.COM>
Subject:      lyrics search

Good Morning All,
Does anyone know of a web site where you could search for song lyrics
containing a certain word?  I am looking for songs with the word(s) rose or
roses.
Thanks,
Pamela Venneman
Lighthouse Indexing Services
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:21:51 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <199811131235.EAA04174@mail-gw3.pacbell.net>

At 05:33 11/13/98 -0700, Nadine wrote:

>PS--I had planned to purchase a new PC in April of 99....do you think things
>will be better with Win98 then?  Can I DEMAND Win95 for my system?  Hate not
>having any CHOICES.... sigh!
>
Hi Nadine,

You may be able to demand Win95, but you may have to pay extra for it. At
least, that's what my husband and I were told when we asked to have Win95
installed on our new systems. (And we didn't even know then just how bad
Win98 would be. ;-D)

BTW, in case anyone is wondering, the reason that I haven't simply
formatted my hard drive and installed Win95 on my system is that Win95 can
only address a hard disk partition of about 1.2Gig (I think that's the
figure). Win98 can address a partition of at least 6.4Gig, probably more.
(The 6.4Gig figure is based only on the fact that it's the size of my
single-partition hard drive, not on anything else.) I don't want multiple
partitions because I already have quite a few drive letters due the fact
that our computers are networked together and I have three drives in
addition to the hard drive. Also I have a single folder that, by itself, is
about a Gig and is constantly growing. So, it could easily exceed the size
of a partition.

Maybe by April of 99 when you purchase your new computer, they will have
fixed most of Win98's bugs. Good luck!

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:35:08 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <199811131412.GAA09841@mail-gw.pacbell.net>

At 09:10 11/13/98 -0500, Rachel wrote:

>I second this, Jackie. I just sit and shake my head when I listen to all
>the trouble people have with their PCs, not just the op sysytems, but just
>simple things that are so easy on a Mac and so ridiculous on a PC. I don't
>understand the resistance.

Hi Rachel,

My resistance to going over to the Mac is based on two things: a) years ago
when I had to use a Mac on my former job, it drove me up the wall that I
couldn't get around the GUI to get really down and dirty with the OS; and
b) a lot of my favorite programs aren't supported on the Mac, emulation
notwithstanding.

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Susan Duhon <duhon@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95
In-Reply-To:  <199811131642.LAA29806@indiana.edu>

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Lynn Moncrief wrote:

>
> My resistance to going over to the Mac is based on two things: a) years ago
> when I had to use a Mac on my former job, it drove me up the wall that I
> couldn't get around the GUI to get really down and dirty with the OS; and
> b) a lot of my favorite programs aren't supported on the Mac, emulation
> notwithstanding.
>
> Lynn
>

You can, actually, with ResEdit--a readily available utility from Apple
for editing the resource fork of a mac file (get around the GUI, that is).

The programs are another matter of course.

Susan

______________________________________________________________
Susan T. Duhon               Indiana University Axolotl Colony
Phone 812-855-8260           Jordan Hall 407
Fax   812-855-6705           Bloomington, IN 47405   USA
email duhon@indiana.edu      http://www.indiana.edu/~axolotl/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
Subject:      status of e-mail

Jessie,

Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.

Sue
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:28:53 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Jacobs <cmjacobs@JOHNABBOTT.QC.CA>
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

Hi -- one certainly exists, because I have used it, but I don't remember
where. I probably got to it through this site:
http://www.music.indiana.edu/music_resources/

Christine

________


At 11:28 AM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:
>Good Morning All,
>Does anyone know of a web site where you could search for song lyrics
>containing a certain word?  I am looking for songs with the word(s) rose or
>roses.
>Thanks,
>Pamela Venneman
>Lighthouse Indexing Services
>
>




****************************************************************************
*******
Christine Jacobs
cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca

Co-Chair
Information and Library Technologies Dept.
John Abbott College
P.O. Box 2000
Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue QC  H9X 3L9
(514) 457-6610, loc 470; fax: (514) 457-4730
****************************************************************************
********
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:23:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Looks as if you are back ... I sent an email to you today.  Did you get it?
Problem was (after I spoke with Midge at TA) I was addressing the mail to:
"Susan_Weiss@tax.org" and she suggested I try "sweiss@tax.org"

If this message gets to you, please re-reply to let me know!

MJB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:12 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      status of e-mail
>
> Jessie,
>
> Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
>
> Sue
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:29:00 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Brave, Claudia" <Claudia.Brave@TURNER.COM>
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

Try the International Lyrics Server at http://www.lyrics.ch/ - they have
lyrics
to 107,000 songs.  You can search titles, artists, albums, or full text.
It's a
great site.

Claudia Brave
CNN Library
Claudia.Brave@turner.com

____________________________________________________________________________
___
Subject: lyrics search
From:    "Pamela Venneman" [SMTP:Psvenndex@AOL.COM] at TBSCENTRAL
Date:    11/13/98  11:28 AM

Good Morning All,
Does anyone know of a web site where you could search for song lyrics
containing a certain word?  I am looking for songs with the word(s) rose or
roses.
Thanks,
Pamela Venneman
Lighthouse Indexing Services
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:32:50 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pamela Venneman <Psvenndex@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: lyrics

Thanks to several members of the list, I have found the needed information at
www.lyrics.ch
The list membership comes through again!
Pam Venneman
Lighthouse Indexing Services
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:05:07 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Jessie,

Yes, I'm back.  Did you get any other messages I sent to you today?

Sue





"Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM> on 11/13/98 12:23:28 PM

Please respond to Indexer's Discussion Group
      <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>

To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
      <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
cc:
Subject:  Re: status of e-mail




Looks as if you are back ... I sent an email to you today.  Did you get it?
Problem was (after I spoke with Midge at TA) I was addressing the mail to:
"Susan_Weiss@tax.org" and she suggested I try "sweiss@tax.org"

If this message gets to you, please re-reply to let me know!

MJB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:12 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      status of e-mail
>
> Jessie,
>
> Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
>
> Sue
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:20:36 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Susan, this is the only message I received from you today.
It's nice to be communicating again.
I have some more questions for you about the work I'm doing.  Let me know
the best time to call you this weekend.

Thanks!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:12 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      status of e-mail
>
> Jessie,
>
> Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
>
> Sue
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:24:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Do you guys mean to be posting this stuff to the list?  Just wondering...

-- Sharon W.
        x7255
        Rm. 223
Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barczak, Jessie [SMTP:jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:21 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
>
> Susan, this is the only message I received from you today.
> It's nice to be communicating again.
> I have some more questions for you about the work I'm doing.  Let me know
> the best time to call you this weekend.
>
> Thanks!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG]
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:12 PM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > Subject:      status of e-mail
> >
> > Jessie,
> >
> > Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
> >
> > Sue
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:43:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?
In-Reply-To:  <199811130507.XAA23453@mixcom.mixcom.com>

>How difficult a name index is to do depends on the nature of the text and
>the names involved. If all the names are present, in full, in the text,
>then I agree that it doesn't take a lot more effort (but it does take some
>effort which, in my experience, is not trivial, because for me, having to
>remember to switch between indexes or to code entries complicates matters).
>However, if the names are bibliographic references in the text, and only
>occur as last names, in which case the indexer has to look up each name in
>the biblio, a name index takes a long time.

True, incomplete names are a pain. But I guess I don't see how that makes a
separate index more time-consuming. Tracking down the complete name will be
time-consuming regardless of whether it goes into a separate name index or
into the subject index. Of course remembering to switch between two indexes
is another matter.

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com                | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:07:29 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jeri Lee <indexer@DBIC.NET>
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

"The Days of Wine and Roses" comes to mind.

Christine Jacobs wrote:

> Hi -- one certainly exists, because I have used it, but I don't remember
> where. I probably got to it through this site:
> http://www.music.indiana.edu/music_resources/
>
> Christine
>
> ________
>
> At 11:28 AM 11/13/98 EST, you wrote:
> >Good Morning All,
> >Does anyone know of a web site where you could search for song lyrics
> >containing a certain word?  I am looking for songs with the word(s) rose or
> >roses.
> >Thanks,
> >Pamela Venneman
> >Lighthouse Indexing Services
> >
> >
>
> ****************************************************************************
> *******
> Christine Jacobs
> cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca
>
> Co-Chair
> Information and Library Technologies Dept.
> John Abbott College
> P.O. Box 2000
> Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue QC  H9X 3L9
> (514) 457-6610, loc 470; fax: (514) 457-4730
> ****************************************************************************
> ********
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:18:49 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1st job--2 indexes--what to charge?

Carol (and others):

I generally do not index citation names in the index unless instructed to do
so, but in my experience the request for separate name and concept indexes
includes instructions to index all of the citations. In that case, and in that
case only, would I charge an additional fee for preparing two indexes. But the
additional fee is still based on the total density of entries per page, not on
the fact that there are two indexes being submitted. In other words, I do not
prepare the bill indicating separate prices for each index. I would quote a
single price reflecting the total density of entries per page, taking into
account the extra time adding first names takes.

Generally, I work on books that have the first names in the text, but not
always. In cases where the first names are not readily available, it does slow
me down and I usually hope that my estimate was flexible enough to account for
the extra time. Another reason to give a price range rather than a flat price
for indexing. And a good reason for having spelled out in the confirmation
letter how much is being charged based on what estimated density of entries
per indexable page.

I usually try to state this specifically as "$ 0.00/page x 000 pages (assuming
6-8 entries per indexable page)" on my confirmation letter. That leaves the
door open for renegotiation should the job be much denser than expected (I've
indexed some as high as 20 entries a page that were described to me as
"average" by the author when the job was first offered).

Having said that, let me restate my comment of some months ago on a different
discussion that I would call the editor or author immediately (after the first
1/5-1/4 of the book) if I would start to notice a problem with my original
estimate. I would not leave this until the project is finished and send off a
bill higher than originally estimated. And when the job comes in shorter than
expected, I adjust my per-page rate downward as appropriate too.

Barbara E. Cohen
Indianapolis, IN
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:36:58 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Robert " <>
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

Pamela:

    Here are three possible web sites that may point you in the right
direction:

    http://www.siba.fi/Kulttuuripalvelut/music.html
    http://archive.uwp.edu/pub/music
    http://www.music.indiana.edu/music_resources

    You could also search in "The Green Book of Songs By Subject" by
Jeff Green.

    Rob
    
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:54:03 -0800
Reply-To:     Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Bonny McLaughlin <Bonny.McLaughlin@CGU.EDU>
Organization: cgs.edu
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

Try http://www.lyrics.ch/

Pamela Venneman wrote:

> Good Morning All,
> Does anyone know of a web site where you could search for song lyrics
> containing a certain word?  I am looking for songs with the word(s) rose or
> roses.
> Thanks,
> Pamela Venneman
> Lighthouse Indexing Services
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:02:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ellen Brink <bellen1@UAKRON.EDU>
Organization: uakron.edu
Subject:      biography & fiction

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi everyone,

I remember hearing about a book or pamphlet by Hazel Bell about indexing
biographical works.  I checked the ASI website, but could not find a
reference to it.  Does anybody know what the exact title is?

Second question, I am working on a paper about the novel _Babbitt_ by
Sinclair Lewis.  I want to discuss the views on higher education
presented within the book and right now I'm thinking an index would be
extremely helpful.  This leads me to wonder: Has anyone here ever
indexed a work of fiction?  Is there a market for it?

Ellen Brink

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--------------4C2304232D7AB2293C890C10--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:13:22 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Mary S Stephenson <mss@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA>
Subject:      Re: biography & fiction
In-Reply-To:  <364C9040.EA7CD84C@uakron.edu>

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95q.981113120945.14794F@interchange.ubc.ca>

Hi Ellen,

It's a great little book.  The full cite is:
Indexing biographies and other stories of human lives by Hazel K. Bell
1992; 2nd edn 1998 65 pages ISBN 1-871577-18-7 #10.00 (overseas #11.00 surface,
#12.00 airmail)*

You can get ordering information at the Society of Indexers web site:
http://www.socind.demon.co.uk/Occpubs.htm

For information on indexing fiction you might want to take a look at an
article [also by Hazel Bell]:

Bell, Hazel K., "On the Indexability of Butterflies," Logos 3 (1992):
149.152.

Cheers,

Susie Stephenson
SLAIS/UBC
Vancouver

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Ellen Brink wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I remember hearing about a book or pamphlet by Hazel Bell about indexing
> biographical works.  I checked the ASI website, but could not find a
> reference to it.  Does anybody know what the exact title is?
>
> Second question, I am working on a paper about the novel _Babbitt_ by
> Sinclair Lewis.  I want to discuss the views on higher education
> presented within the book and right now I'm thinking an index would be
> extremely helpful.  This leads me to wonder: Has anyone here ever
> indexed a work of fiction?  Is there a market for it?
>
> Ellen Brink
>

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---559023410-758783491-910988002=:14794--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:09:36 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      INFO: New Resource Discovered!

Hello, all--

Most of you know that many good resource libraries are found at .EDU
sites on the Net. I uncovered one yesterday completely by accident,
with a little help from a basic hacker's trick.

Looking for the program Megaback -- a good backup program using disks
rather than tape -- one reference picked up was http://garbo.uwasa.fi/
pc/diskutil.html. I found the file and then decided to fiddle a bit with
the URL. Truncate it to http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ and you go to the home
page of the University of Vaasa [a Nordic pun, vaasa=uwasa?]!

Looks like a neat site for shareware, with DOS, all the Windows flavours,
Unix, and other stuff. Well worth the visit.

Cheers,
Dave T.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:09:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      lyrics search

Pamela-- try AltaVista, or even their offspring Discovery.

Haven't used either for a lyrics search but I understand their
services are exceptinally well-tailored for such things.

Cheers,
Dave T.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:51:45 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

This is me, Suellen. Address is working fine. How's your throat? Suellen

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500 Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
writes:
>Jessie,
>
>Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
>
>Sue
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:54:20 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Oh, that's the Jessie you're talking about? She's on one of my lists.
I've written to her. Probably Index-L. Suellen

On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:05:07 -0500 Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
writes:
>Jessie,
>
>Yes, I'm back.  Did you get any other messages I sent to you today?
>
>Sue
>
>
>
>
>
>"Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM> on 11/13/98 12:23:28 PM
>
>Please respond to Indexer's Discussion Group
>      <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>
>To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>      <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>cc:
>Subject:  Re: status of e-mail
>
>
>
>
>Looks as if you are back ... I sent an email to you today.  Did you
>get it?
>Problem was (after I spoke with Midge at TA) I was addressing the mail
>to:
>"Susan_Weiss@tax.org" and she suggested I try "sweiss@tax.org"
>
>If this message gets to you, please re-reply to let me know!
>
>MJB
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Susan Weiss [SMTP:Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG]
>> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:12 PM
>> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>> Subject:      status of e-mail
>>
>> Jessie,
>>
>> Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
>>
>> Sue
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:53:19 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Sorry, there is something wrong w/my email system here and nobody wants to
admit it!

MJB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Suellen Kasoff [SMTP:lserve@JUNO.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:52 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
>
> This is me, Suellen. Address is working fine. How's your throat? Suellen
>
> On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500 Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
> writes:
> >Jessie,
> >
> >Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
> >
> >Sue
> >
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:00:36 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

At 08:21 AM 11/13/1998 -0800, Lynn Moncrief wrote:

>You may be able to demand Win95, but you may have to pay extra for it. At

>BTW, in case anyone is wondering, the reason that I haven't simply
>formatted my hard drive and installed Win95 on my system is that Win95 can
>only address a hard disk partition of about 1.2Gig (I think that's the
>figure). Win98 can address a partition of at least 6.4Gig, probably more.
>(The 6.4Gig figure is based only on the fact that it's the size of my
>single-partition hard drive, not on anything else.) I don't want multiple
>partitions because I already have quite a few drive letters due the fact
>that our computers are networked together and I have three drives in
>addition to the hard drive. Also I have a single folder that, by itself, is
>about a Gig and is constantly growing. So, it could easily exceed the size
>of a partition.

Lynn, I recently installed a new 6.4-gig hard drive under my very old WIN95
installation (about 2.5 years). It works fine. You may want to speak to a
tecchie about this supposed problem.

        =Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:07:49 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karen Field <KarenF@TRITECH.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

Hi, all.

Is the "status of email' dialog intended for the entire list? I thought one-
or two-liners that resembled the "Thanks, how's the family" tone were
verboten here...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barczak, Jessie [SMTP:jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:53 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
>
> Sorry, there is something wrong w/my email system here and nobody wants to
> admit it!
>
> MJB
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Suellen Kasoff [SMTP:lserve@JUNO.COM]
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:52 PM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
> >
> > This is me, Suellen. Address is working fine. How's your throat? Suellen
> >
> > On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500 Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
> > writes:
> > >Jessie,
> > >
> > >Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
> > >
> > >Sue
> > >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
> > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 17:09:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Barczak, Jessie" <jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

I am hitting the "reply" button and not the "reply to all" button to send
these messages, but apparently there is a glitch in our software.  Sorry for
the "personal" messages ... if my recipient didn't have laryngytis I
wouldn't be bothering with email right now until the glitch is fixed!

MJB

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Field [SMTP:KarenF@TRITECH.COM]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 5:08 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
>
> Hi, all.
>
> Is the "status of email' dialog intended for the entire list? I thought
> one-
> or two-liners that resembled the "Thanks, how's the family" tone were
> verboten here...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Barczak, Jessie [SMTP:jbarczak@WASHINGTON.COM]
> > Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:53 PM
> > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
> >
> > Sorry, there is something wrong w/my email system here and nobody wants
> to
> > admit it!
> >
> > MJB
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Suellen Kasoff [SMTP:lserve@JUNO.COM]
> > > Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 4:52 PM
> > > To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> > > Subject:      Re: status of e-mail
> > >
> > > This is me, Suellen. Address is working fine. How's your throat?
> Suellen
> > >
> > > On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:11:37 -0500 Susan Weiss <Susan_Weiss@TAX.ORG>
> > > writes:
> > > >Jessie,
> > > >
> > > >Is this e-mail address working for you?  Which one should I use.
> > > >
> > > >Sue
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________________________________________
> > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at
> http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:20:06 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: lyrics search

Although the lyrics have been found, another great source for folk lyrics
of all kinds is Digital tradition, http://www.mudcat.org/folksearch.html

Jan Wright

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:18:17 -0800
Reply-To:     jeanmidd@prodigy.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jean Middleton <jeanmidd@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: biography & fiction

My son, who has written a book  "based on fact" about the first child
abuse case recorded in this country, has asked me to index his book.
This book is part biography, but since the story occurred in the latter
part of the 19th century, some of it is fictionalized. This book seems
as though it should have an index, however. My son's coauthor is a
medical doctor who specializes in child abuse cases.I would appeciate
comments as well as possible suggestions as to similar books that might
give me some guidance. This will be my first index other than ones for
practice.

Jean
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:31:17 +1100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dwight Walker <dwight@SPEAKEASY.ORG>
Organization: W W Walker Web Development
Subject:      French indexers?

If you are an indexer of  French materials please contact me. I have
enquiries about indexing in French. Also does anyone know of translation
software on the Internet?

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Dwight Walker
WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145,
Australia
http://www.wwwalker.com.au, http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight (US mirror)

tel +61-2-98960286, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058
ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:53:33 -0500
Reply-To:     "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mmo0008@ibm.net>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives

My understanding is that the original Win95 will only recognize hard disks
up to 2GB, but Win95b will recognize larger hard drives (although I don't
how large).

Maxine
mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu

>
>Lynn, I recently installed a new 6.4-gig hard drive under my very old WIN95
>installation (about 2.5 years). It works fine. You may want to speak to a
>tecchie about this supposed problem.
>
>        =Sonsie=
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:10:34 +1100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dwight Walker <dwight@SPEAKEASY.ORG>
Organization: W W Walker Web Development
Subject:      Roebourne West Australia Web Site - multimedia language tutorial

hi dudes

Here is a really cool Aboriginal Web Site.

    http://www.roebourne.wa.edu.au/

It has a cool way of using multimedia for teaching language and
vocabulary - go to the culture page and click on the pictures of the
body parts to hear the words pronounced!

    http://www.roebourne.wa.edu.au/culture/default.htm

My family lived up near here in Fitzroy Crossing in the 1950s. These are
the traditional Australian Aboriginals - 'full bloods'. They have a
wonderful character as you will find from reading this site's tour of
the Pilbara region of Western Australia.

Dwight

--
--------------------------------------------------------
Dwight Walker
WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145,
Australia
http://www.wwwalker.com.au, http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight (US mirror)

tel +61-2-98960286, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058
ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:21:17 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives
In-Reply-To:  <199811132355.SAA13564@camel10.mindspring.com>

I have Win95b and a 2.15 GB partition, as well as several 1.8 gb partitions
on my hard drive, so I guess it must recognize them. I had never thought
about it or checked it until now... So Lynn, does this mean you can go back
in time??? ;-)

Jan


At 06:53 PM 11/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>My understanding is that the original Win95 will only recognize hard disks
>up to 2GB, but Win95b will recognize larger hard drives (although I don't
>how large).
>
>Maxine
>mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu
>
>>
>>Lynn, I recently installed a new 6.4-gig hard drive under my very old WIN95
>>installation (about 2.5 years). It works fine. You may want to speak to a
>>tecchie about this supposed problem.
>>
>>        =Sonsie=
>>
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:00:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten

Does anyone know enough German to understand what that post was about?  My
2 years of college German, taken 15 years ago, are not up to the task.

Kara Pekar
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:40:28 LCL
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject:      repaginating charges

Greetings colleagues:

I've just been asked to make a bid on repaginating an index of mine for a
paperback edition of the book.  Since I've never done any straight
repagination without comprehensive editing and additional original
indexing, it occurs to me to ask you who have done such work how much time
it takes, compared with indexing the book from scratch, and how much you
charge for it.

TIA,

Michael


Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA  95945
530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:41:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Skuster <cskuster@LIBRARY.LIB.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Subject:      moderator off duty for awhile

Hi all

I will be away from my computer for the coming week.  If you have any
technical or other problems with index-l,please be patient.  I will
return on Saturday, Nov 21.

Charlotte Skuster
index-l moderator
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:31:17 -0800
Reply-To:     Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@mcn.org>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: status of e-mail

By hitting "Reply," or "Reply to Author," you are sending your message to
the whole Index-L list. If you want to send a message to someone who has
written to Index-L, you must either retype their address or cut and paste it
into a new message.

Elinor Lindheimer
elinorl@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:50:51 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Joanne Clendenen <jbclend@FLASH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives
In-Reply-To:  <199811132357.RAA27495@phobos.flash.net>

Win95 can handle a large hard drive, in a way.  It simply insists on
partitioning the drive into 2 GB parts.  I used this to my advantage by
labeling the partitions for my husband, two children and one to keep most of
my big applications on.  It's actually pretty nice.

Joanne

AfterWords Indexing Services
Joanne E. Clendenen
email:  jbclend@bigfoot.com
http://www.flash.net/~jbclend
----------------
"That love is all we know is all we know of love"
                                    Emily Dickinson



-----Original Message-----
From:   Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu]
On Behalf Of Maxine M. Okazaki
Sent:   Friday, November 13, 1998 5:54 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject:        Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives

My understanding is that the original Win95 will only recognize hard disks
up to 2GB, but Win95b will recognize larger hard drives (although I don't
how large).

Maxine
mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu

>
>Lynn, I recently installed a new 6.4-gig hard drive under my very old WIN95
>installation (about 2.5 years). It works fine. You may want to speak to a
>tecchie about this supposed problem.
>
>        =Sonsie=
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:12:54 +1300
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Simon Cauchi <cauchi@WAVE.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: Weinberg's letter in the October 1998 Indexer

Presumably a good many subscribers to Index-l are also subscribers to The
Indexer, the latest issue of which (October 1998) has just reached me. The
issue contains a letter from Bella Hass Weinberg in which, inter alia, she
attempts--in my view, feebly and unsuccessfully--to rebut an argument I put
forward in a letter to the October 1997 issue of the Indexer. Her remarks
are sadly off the point. May I ask any Index-l subscribers who may be
interested in the matter to take the trouble to read my original letter in
its entirety and not to rely on Weinberg's misleading quotation from it and
perverse criticism of it.

In brief, I was writing about back-of-the-book indexes, not library
catalogues, and no, I do not "grant" that catalogues are indexes. The
reason we have different names for them is that they are different things.
Secondly, I was reporting the results of a recent survey about alphabetical
arrangement in back-of-the-book indexes (a survey I had earlier reported to
Index-l), and was not discussing the history of the
"person-place-subject-title" rule in the filing codes of library
catalogues. If I had been doing that, I would have researched the history
of the rule in some depth and reported the results in an article, not in a
letter to the editor. In any case, demonstrating the earlier history of the
rule in library cataloguing does nothing to demonstrate its suitability for
back-of-the-book indexes, about which her letter has nothing whatever to
say. As I understand it, this rule and all similar filing rules are pretty
well obsolete even in library cataloguing these days, since card catalogues
and printed catalogues have now been superseded for most purposes by online
public access catalogues.

As it happens, and as my letter made perfectly clear, I don't quarrel with
the "person-place-subject-title" rule in very large sequences where
homonyms abound, such as the indexes of big multi-volume works or of long
runs of periodicals. But to apply this rule in an ordinary six-page or
twelve-page back-of-the-book index invites the sort of caustic criticism
offered by the great majority of my survey respondents in their comments
about List A.

In the same letter Weinberg is pleased to criticise John Simkin for using a
single word, "Professionalism", as the title of an article--a choice of
title, she says, "which will impede free text retrieval and require text
enhancement by indexing services". For heavens sake! What nonsense! The
title of Simkin's article is perfectly adequate for its immediate
purpose--to give readers of The Indexer an idea of his subject--and if the
indexing services need to do a bit of extra work to incorporate it into
their systems, that's their problem, not his or the reader's.

I don't know whether Weinberg chose the heading for her letter or if it was
supplied by the editor of The Indexer. It reads: "A plea for bibliographic
quality". I find that heading gratuitously offensive. There was nothing the
matter with the bibliographic quality of my letter or Simkin's article or,
indeed, any of the other works she mentions. (Mathews and Bakewell, for
example, were not obliged to cite Weinberg, however fond she may be of
seeing her own work cited.) Nor--let me add--is there anything wrong with
the bibliographic quality of this post of mine to Index-l, despite its lack
of formal references.

The bibliographic quality of Weinberg's own letter is not above reproach,
if we apply her own standards. She makes no mention, for example, of Hans
H. Wellisch's dictum on the matter of homonyms (or homographs, as he calls
them): "Only in very long and complex indexes containing large numbers of
homographic entries will it be necessary to resort to ... classified
arrangements ..." (Indexing from A to Z, 2nd edn, page 194). By "classified
arrangements" he means various versions of the person-place-subject-title
rule.

Simon Cauchi <cauchi@wave.co.nz>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:20:29 -0500
Reply-To:     "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mmo0008@ibm.net>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives

Yes, you are right, the original Win95 can handle a large hard drive, but
only if it is partitioned into 2GB parts.  However, with Win95b you don't
have to partition the large hard drive into 2GB parts.

Maxine


>Win95 can handle a large hard drive, in a way.  It simply insists on
>partitioning the drive into 2 GB parts.  I used this to my advantage by
>labeling the partitions for my husband, two children and one to keep most
of
>my big applications on.  It's actually pretty nice.
>
>Joanne
>
>AfterWords Indexing Services
>Joanne E. Clendenen
>email:  jbclend@bigfoot.com
>http://www.flash.net/~jbclend
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:38:37 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sharon Hughes <SHughes512@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: SNN KURZINFO fuer Abonnenten

In a message dated 98-11-13 20:27:09 EST, jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET writes:

<<
 Does anyone know enough German to understand what that post was about?  My
 2 years of college German, taken 15 years ago, are not up to the task.
  >>

  They were trying to sell us bonds/stocks.  in some company.  I forget which
one.  but it wasn't interesting.. just the usual spam but international
                                          Sharon
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:15:14 +0300
Reply-To:     kharashi@kacst.edu.sa
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ibrahim Al-Kharashi <kharashi@KACST.EDU.SA>
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

Faisal is the son of Abd al-`Aziz the founder of modern Saudi Arabia
and Al-Sa`ud is refared to the family.

Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote:
>
> I am indexing multi-authored  book full of Arabic names. Authors often use
> variants of a name, (Faisal in one article, `Abd al-`Aziz in another,
> Al-Sa`ud in yet another, all seeming to refer to the same ruler of Saudi
> Arabia).  Does anyone have any leads on a website that might help?  The
> Webster's Biographical Dictionary isn't helping;  Faisal is listed as
> Faysal ibn `Abd al-`Aziz ibn `Abd ar-Rahman al-Sa`ud.  Now that I've
> figured out that they are all the same person I am still unsure as to how
> to alphabetize him!
>
> Paula C. Durbin-Westby
> dwindex@louisa.net

--
Regards,

Ibrahim A. Al-Kharashi
Computer and Electronics Research Institute (CERI)
King Abdulaziz City for Scienece and Technology  (KACST)
P. O. Box 6086, Riyadh 11442
Phone:  481-3273    -  Fax:     481-3274
e-mail: kharashi@kacst.edu.sa
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:05:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Julia B. Marshall" <juliam@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject:      Help with e-mailing attachments

Dear Index-Ler's
        I have an index due on Monday and I want to send it as an
attached file in an e-mail message.  I've practiced this with a couple of
people.  One person, my boyfriend was able to open the file and read it
just fine. The other person said that it just came out as ASCII
gobbledygook at her end.  How can I send the index so that I know the
person at the other end can read it just fine?  Please send the answer
directly to me as I am not on the Index-L list now.  Thank you very much
in advance for any help.

With panicky regards
Julia Marshall
Marshall Indexing Services
juliam@capaccess.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:22:29 +0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John Halliday <halliday@THENET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Indexers Available online

The Society of Indexers is pleased to announce a major addition to its web
site.

Indexers Available, the major resource finding aid for publishers and
authors is now available online. It allows indexers to be sought on the
basis of subsject specialisms, their experience of particular publications
and media and their skills in fields other than indexing which are relevant
to publishing.

The Society's web site is at:

http://www.socind.demon.co.uk

and links are provided to the Indexers Available part of the site from the
'what's new' page, accessed from the site's home page

John Halliday
SI Webmaster
_________________________________________________________________
John Halliday           The Old Maltsters : Pulham St Mary:
                        Diss : Norfolk IP21 4QT : England :

phone +44 (0)1379 676586 : fax +44 (0)1379 608452 :
_____________email <halliday@thenet.co.uk>________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:53:57 -0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      Re: biography & fiction

Ellen Brink wrote:

>I remember hearing about a book or pamphlet by Hazel Bell about indexing
>biographical works.  I checked the ASI website, but could not find a
>reference to it.  Does anybody know what the exact title is?
>
>Second question, I am working on a paper about the novel _Babbitt_ by
>Sinclair Lewis.  I want to discuss the views on higher education
>presented within the book and right now I'm thinking an index would be
>extremely helpful.  This leads me to wonder: Has anyone here ever
>indexed a work of fiction?  Is there a market for it?

The company Information Today, Inc. is handling ASI publications, among
which are the reprints of the Hazel Bell articles.

Information Today
143 Old Marlton Pike
Medford, NJ 08055
800-300-9868 or 609-654-6266
fax 609-654-4309
custserv@infotoday.com

Ask about "Indexing Biographies."

Second question: yes.  I have indexed one work of fiction.  Actually
fiction based on historical fact.  My particular ground rules were to
index all real names, places, and events.  Is there a market for this?
Not much.

Cheers,
Craig

=====================================================
  The Last Word        lastword@i1.net
    Indexing           http://www/i1.net/~lastword
  (314)352-9094        fax: (314) 481-9254
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:53:59 -0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      Re: System crashes

In the exchange for 11/13, Lynn Moncrief wrote, in  part, and in two
separate postings:

>The [Win 98] system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer
and storm
>away in frustration.

>...years ago when I had to use a Mac on my former job, it drove me up the
wall that I
>couldn't get around the GUI to get really down and dirty with the OS

Lynn, there is a causal relationship between getting down and dirty with
the OS and system crashes.  Now I know you've been around the block once
or twice with computers and you know I have too (user since 1968).  I try
to leave the OS alone as much as possible, knowing it will occasionally
fail on its own without any assistance from me.  ;)

Cheers,
Craig Brown



=====================================================
  The Last Word        lastword@i1.net
    Indexing           http://www/i1.net/~lastword
  (314)352-9094        fax: (314) 481-9254
=====================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:40:21 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "William G. Meisheid" <wgm@SAGELINE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives

>Yes, you are right, the original Win95 can handle a large hard drive, but
>only if it is partitioned into 2GB parts.  However, with Win95b you don't
>have to partition the large hard drive into 2GB parts.


Win95b has the option to use FAT32 for its file system, rather than FAT16, which
all previous versions of DOS and Windows used. FAT32 can cause problems on a
Windows 95 system but it is the default file system for Windows 98. Many of the
problems people have migrating to Windows 98 can be traced to a problem
converting FAT 16 disk drives to FAT 32.

I would recommend if you want to use FAT 32 you do so by installing Windows 98.

________________________________________________
William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress"
WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP
Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training
Sageline Publishing  410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812
http://www.sageline.com      wgm@sageline.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:11:18 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: System crashes

At 09:53 AM 11/14/1998 -0000, Craig Brown wrote:

>Lynn, there is a causal relationship between getting down and dirty with
>the OS and system crashes.  Now I know you've been around the block once
>or twice with computers and you know I have too (user since 1968).  I try
>to leave the OS alone as much as possible, knowing it will occasionally
>fail on its own without any assistance from me.  ;)

I am of two minds on this. I was able to do a lot of hands-on software fixes
back in the days of DOS...which I cannot seem to do now. This saved me a lot
of time and money, and taught me a great deal about how computers and
software work.

My dear friend is a confirmed computer tinkerer. He cannot resist adding
each great new touted program (particularly those that are supposed to
protect against crashes or add power) to his system. He's always buying the
latest video card, newest printer, etc., and trying to make them work with
his system. He's got at least three full-on computer setups, but usually
only one is working at any particular time. The man is a walking
encyclopedia of worst-case scenarios come to life.

He's not stupid; he used to be a race car mechanic, so he's quite good at
this sort of thing. He knows a lot more about his computers than I do about
mine. But the one thing he doesn't seem to know is WHEN TO STOP. <G>

In all the years I've owned computers, I've never had to reformat a hard
drive, never had to replace a full set of programs from a backup tape, never
had such a severe crash that I couldn't recover from it myself (except when
I had a pure mechanical failure that required the purchase of a new
motherboard). I'm a very selective tinkerer; if the task is beyond me, I
call my guru and am happy to pay him well for his expertise. And he's one of
those who leaves well enough alone rather than attempting to produce miracles.

        =Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:36:19 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives
In-Reply-To:  <199811141650.IAA07871@mail-gw5.pacbell.net>

Hi everyone,

Thanks to everyone who wrote in to tell me about Win 95b! Early this
morning, I joyfully told my husband that I was going to format my hard
drive and install Win95b. After a moment of inarticulate sputtering in
shock, he told me that the latest build we have for Win95 is OSR A. Drat!

Then William further rained on my parade <g> by saying:

>Win95b has the option to use FAT32 for its file system, rather than FAT16,
which
>all previous versions of DOS and Windows used. FAT32 can cause problems on a
>Windows 95 system but it is the default file system for Windows 98. Many
of the
>problems people have migrating to Windows 98 can be traced to a problem
>converting FAT 16 disk drives to FAT 32.

Being that all of the files I've created since having Win98 are FAT 32,
I'll probably create even more problems for myself by going back to Win95
(and FAT16 since it doesn't handle FAT 32 too well). It looks like I'm
stuck with Win98. :-(

Lynn


***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:58:07 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: System crashes
In-Reply-To:  <199811141623.IAA29915@mail-gw.pacbell.net>

At 09:53 11/14/98 -0000, you wrote:
>In the exchange for 11/13, Lynn Moncrief wrote, in  part, and in two
>separate postings:
>
>>The [Win 98] system crashes so often that I often get up from the computer
>and storm
>>away in frustration.
>
>>...years ago when I had to use a Mac on my former job, it drove me up the
>wall that I
>>couldn't get around the GUI to get really down and dirty with the OS
>
>Lynn, there is a causal relationship between getting down and dirty with
>the OS and system crashes.  Now I know you've been around the block once
>or twice with computers and you know I have too (user since 1968).  I try
>to leave the OS alone as much as possible, knowing it will occasionally
>fail on its own without any assistance from me.  ;)

Hi Craig,

You're right, of course. My days of getting "down and dirty" with the OS
were back when few systems were running Windoze yet and everyone *had* to
get down and dirty with DOS. This was the same timeframe (late '80s) when I
felt that the Mac GUI was "in the way", a perception I've maintained since,
admittedly unfairly probably. Come to think of it, it was around the time
when Windows 2.0 (I think) was out. It crashed even more than Win98! ;-D

Lynn

***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:32:20 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@WRIGHTINFORMATION.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives
In-Reply-To:  <199811141745.MAA11070@camel16.mindspring.com>

Lynn, I wonder if you could request a cd from your computer's manufacturer
with osr2 (win95b) on it? They don't sell win95b publicly - you have to get
it with your computer.

At 09:36 AM 11/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>Thanks to everyone who wrote in to tell me about Win 95b! Early this
>morning, I joyfully told my husband that I was going to format my hard
>drive and install Win95b. After a moment of inarticulate sputtering in
>shock, he told me that the latest build we have for Win95 is OSR A. Drat!
>
>Then William further rained on my parade <g> by saying:
>
>>Win95b has the option to use FAT32 for its file system, rather than FAT16,
>which
>>all previous versions of DOS and Windows used. FAT32 can cause problems on a
>>Windows 95 system but it is the default file system for Windows 98. Many
>of the
>>problems people have migrating to Windows 98 can be traced to a problem
>>converting FAT 16 disk drives to FAT 32.
>
>Being that all of the files I've created since having Win98 are FAT 32,
>I'll probably create even more problems for myself by going back to Win95
>(and FAT16 since it doesn't handle FAT 32 too well). It looks like I'm
>stuck with Win98. :-(
>
>Lynn
>
>
>***********************************
>Lynn Moncrief
>(techndex@pacbell.net)
>TECHindex & Docs
>Technical and Scientific Indexing
>***********************************
>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wright Information Indexing Services
http://www.wrightinformation.com
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:57:48 -0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Headley <chps@GLOBALNET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: repaginating charges

From Christine Headley

Michael Brackney wrote <


>
>I've just been asked to make a bid on repaginating an index of mine for a
>paperback edition of the book.  Since I've never done any straight
>repagination without comprehensive editing and additional original
>indexing, it occurs to me to ask you who have done such work how much time
>it takes, compared with indexing the book from scratch, and how much you
>charge for it.


I have had one unhappy experience, though I hadn't done the original index.
I failed to find a number of references and the whole thing took longer than
I thought a new one would have.

I have just had to repaginate ten pages of an index I was just finishing
where they had rearranged the footnotes and *that* took an hour!

Christine H
Stroud
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:58:05 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nell Benton <Nmbenton@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Fax machine

I need to buy a fax machine tomorrow. I want one that can share the telephone
line with the computer and not knock me offline when a fax comes in. Can
anyone recommend one?
Nell
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:02:55 -0500
Reply-To:     kamm@sky-software.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kamm Y. Schreiner" <skysoft@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fax machine
In-Reply-To:  <199811141959.OAA11179@mx04.erols.com>

Hi Nell,

You asked:

  I need to buy a fax machine tomorrow. I want one that can share
  the telephone
  line with the computer and not knock me offline when a fax comes in. Can
  anyone recommend one?

If the fax and computer are sharing a line, the fax can't knock you offline
unless you have call waiting because the phone line is already in use. If
you have call waiting, you will have to remember to turn off call waiting
while you are online. You may be able to set up your logon program so that
it will automatically turn off call waiting when you dial up and turn it
back on when you disconnect.

So... buy the fax that you like the best.

Sincerely,

Kamm Schreiner

SKY Software
6016 Oxpen Ct, #303
Alexandria, VA 22315

email: kamm@sky-software.com <mailto:kamm@sky-software.com>
web: http://www.sky-software.com
phone: 800-776-0137 or 703-921-9472
fax: 703-921-9472
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:16:11 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: repaginating charges
In-Reply-To:  <199811140141.UAA22133@mail3.bellsouth.net>

I've done a couple of those recently. The problem is that the pages in the
paperback edition are almost never the same size as the hardback's pages...
so it isn't just a matter of incrementing the page number count. In my
(limited) experience with these things, there's no easy way.

I just sat down with the old edition, the page proofs of the new edition,
and a couple of red pens, and drew lines across the proofs where the old
page breaks were, and scribbled the page numbers in the margin.

Then I took the old index, split out all the locators one-per-line, and
re-sorted them into page-number order and printed it out. I sat on the floor
with the print-out and the marked-up proofs of the new pages, checked the
headings and subheads against the proofs, and wrote down the new page
numbers. What used to fall onto two pages may now be all on one page, and
vice versa -- so you have to check every one.

Re-doing my own, old index was a lot quicker, even though I did the original
about 8 years ago; as I got into it, I began to remember to book and the
subject headings. Re-doing someone else's index (originally done in the
mid-'70s!) was a royal pain. I ached to redo some of the inane headings, but
that wasn't in my brief, so I just muttered to myself a lot while I was
doing it....

I charged about 2/3 of what I usually charge, based on number of pages in
the new edition. I wasn't going to cut it any more than that because it
*isn't* just a mechanical operation... as the editior originally assumed
before I explained to him just what all was going to be involved. And the
job, as I'd thought, took about 2/3 as much time as if I'd done the input
from scratch. (But I didn't do much keyboard work!)

Mike

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
mksmith1@bellsouth.net                ICQ #15741870
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


|-----Original Message-----
|From: Indexer's Discussion Group
|[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Michael Brackney
|Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:40 PM
|To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
|Subject: repaginating charges
|
|
|Greetings colleagues:
|
|I've just been asked to make a bid on repaginating an index of mine for a
|paperback edition of the book.  Since I've never done any straight
|repagination without comprehensive editing and additional original
|indexing, it occurs to me to ask you who have done such work how much time
|it takes, compared with indexing the book from scratch, and how much you
|charge for it.
|
|TIA,
|
|Michael
|
|
|Brackney Indexing Service
|134 Kathleen Way
|Grass Valley, CA  95945
|530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:46:16 PST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Manjit Sahai <ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95

I have installed Windows 98 on my computer the day it was released. I
NEVER had any problem. As a matter of fact, my computer has become
faster and more effiecient. I have always been a very big fan of
Microsoft products and I am damn proud of being one. I will never go
back to Windows 95.

Regards.

Manjit K. Sahai
RAM Indexing services

>From owner-index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Thu Nov 12 06:39:41 1998
>Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP
for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.000A9F6D@listserv.cuny.edu>; Thu,
12 Nov 1998 9:41:52 -0500
>Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:31:48 +0000
>Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group
<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group
<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>From:         Laurence Errington <Laurence@ERRINGTON-INDEX.DEMON.CO.UK>
>Subject:      Windows 98 v W95
>X-To:         Index-L-send letter <index-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu>
>To:           Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>
>I'm a subscriber to Index-L but never have time to read it or use it to
>it's full capability (50 books, 20+ journals indexed a year plus 2
young
>kids etc.....). I'm wanting to get a second PC system, and would
>appreciate anyone's views/experiences on running it under W98 rather
>than a late version of W95. I've heard lot's of stability problems
about
>W98 which obviously is till in the early stages of use. ANy
>recommendations on which Windows to install?
>
>You may have lots of correspondence on this already. If so then point
me
>on to how to get the info from INdex-L (as I said I've not had time).
>Reply to me in person with your prejudices if it's already been
>discussed, so as not to go over old ground.
>
>Thanks all.
>--
>Dr Laurence Errington
>15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ
>Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406
>Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only)
>E-Mail: laurence@errington-index.demon.co.uk
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:47:49 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Truesdale <Anntrue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Off topic: Fw: Warning (phone scam)

I picked this up from another e-mail list. Hope it is not like the virus
scares, ie., a hoax. Sounded like something almost anybody would be taken in
by, so I thought I would pass it on just in case....

Ann Truesdale   (anntrue@aol.com)
TrueWords Freelance Services
Yonges Island, SC

**************************************************************
 If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool
 came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?

>  >      Received this email from someone at work and thought I'd pass it on.
>
>   Interesting warning to pass on!
>
> >       This can happen at home and at work, everyone should be
>  >      aware...I've sent this to all my friends last Friday night  and
>  >      I've already had 3 email me and say that it's already happened
>  >      to them.  I received a telephone call from an individual identifying
>  >      himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a test
>  >      on our telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test we
>  >      should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up.
>  >      Luckily, we were suspicious and refused.
>  >
>  >      Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by
>  >      pushing 90# you end up giving the individual that called you
>  >      access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long
>  >      distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your
>  >      telephone bill.
>  >
>  >      We were further informed that this scam has been originating
>  >     from many of the local jails/prisons. I have verified with UCB
>  >     Telecomm. that this actually happens.
>  >
>  >      I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is
>  >     definitely possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will
>  >     give them access to your phone line to make long distances
>  >     calls ANYWHERE!!!!  The GTE Security department told me to go
>  >     ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I KNOW!!!
>  >
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:48:06 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Truesdale <Anntrue@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Windows 98 v W95 (2G partitions)

I definitely cannot claim to be a techie, but I have had to
repartition/reformat my 6G harddrive running Win95. Win95 can only handle 2G,
so my 6G drive must have at a minimum of 3 partitions. There may be a work
around that I don't know about, but I think not. At least, Lynn, 2G would give
your 1G & growing file a good bit of space -- I think you said you thought the
partition size was 1.2G, but I have 2G partitions so I know they exist. ;-)
Anyway, in actual use it is pretty "transparent", as they say. I have my
preloaded software & virus scan on one partition, my other apps on a second,
my data on the third, and a smaller fourth one for "scraps"(downloaded zip
files that I might want later, etc). Since I have all my data on one
partition, it makes doing daily backups simpler.

Ann

Ann Truesdale   (anntrue@aol.com)
TrueWords Freelance Services
Yonges Island, SC

**************************************************************
 If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool
 came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?


In a message dated 11/13/98 5:07:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sconroy@SLONET.ORG writes:

>
>  Lynn, I recently installed a new 6.4-gig hard drive under my very old WIN95
>  installation (about 2.5 years). It works fine. You may want to speak to a
>  tecchie about this supposed problem.
>
>          =Sonsie=
>