From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Sun Oct 18 10:43:51 1998 Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:39:40 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Julius Ariail Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9809A" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:03:56 +0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Software NEEDS In-Reply-To: > Have you considered getting an Iomega Zip drive? But beware of the Click of Death. I have a record of a URL on this: http://grc.com:80/clickdeath.htm but be warned, the author is, if I remember rightly, selling a software item dealing with this. The point is that Zip drives have a reputation for going wrong in a way that messes up the data on their cartridges and then the messed-up cartridges themselves when read by other Zip drives sends them haywire too. The symptom is a regular clicking noise. For a buying decision one has to balance this risk against the Zip drive being inexpensive and having a large user base. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:10:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: > I haven't been following too closely so someone might already have said this but I have a surge suppressor that you also can plug the modem line into. It's guaranteed and will pay up to $25K if you have an equipment loss due to a power surge or lightning strike. It's New Point, and I got it at Staples for $13. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:28:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TennWords@AOL.COM Subject: Tennessee Regional Group Update Good Morning to All! The Sep/Oct issue of "TennWords," the online newsletter of the Tennessee Regional Group of ASI, has been uploaded to our web site. This month's issue contains: What Indexing Is All About, by Larry Edmonson Window on Web Indexing, a new column by Kevin Broccoli Web Sites about Customer Service TennWords Guide to E-mail Etiquette The Answer Guru--Getting References Indexing a Periodical using Sky Index, by Michelle Robertson TennReviews--Susan Holbert's "Basic Indexing Video Workshop" and some great recipes Our web site is at: http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html We hope you will come by to visit us! As always, we keep the cyber-coffee hot.... Dawn Spencer indexlady@aol.com Contact for the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:38:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Panning for gold In a message dated 98-08-31 10:03:53 EDT, you write: << "Charlene Avallone suggests that _Pierre_'s [Melville] style was not as aberrant as it might seem to twentieth-century readers . . . . Avallone's point is well-taken, yet _Pierre_ still seems, well, aberrant." >> Hi Carol, It's gold to me, also. I love that catty sort of humor. I also love the British tongue-in- cheek sort. I was delighted to see Hazel Bell's article in _The Indexer_ (April '98) about indexing the novels of Angela Thirkell. I've read a few of her books, and she has the most charming way of innocently pattering along, and then you find yourself chuckling with and at her. I think I just made up the word "pattering", but it describes her style. Ann Truesdale (linguistic inventor) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:38:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In a message dated 98-08-30 14:49:55 EDT, Lynn wrote: (snip) > > Being that you are using an external modem, you may be having a COM port > conflict. Bob said that external modems usually plug into COM 3, a DB-25 > connector (looks like your printer connector, but of the opposite gender). > However, usually your mouse uses COM 1 and you'll get conflicts when both > COM 1 and 3 are used. (The same thing happens with COMS 2 and 4). I think > it's because they share IRQs (and changing them requires going into your > CMOS, a task not for the faint of heart). The reason why AOL works and > nothing else seems to be that AOL uses it's own drivers, auto-seeks port > assignments, etc. But Windows 9x, you have to do all of this stuff manually > (especially being that most of Microsoft's "Wizards" strike me as being > particularly moronic). > I don't *think* a port conflict is the problem. I had a lot of fun with that on my laptop a while back. On the Dell, I have a PS2 mouse, the external modem is on COM 1, and I don't have anyother devices that use COM ports. But I guess that the Windows communications applications could be having a conflict with each other or with AOL. I think I will try John Sullivan's suggestion (although I think I already tried that; maybe I forgot to reboot). My brother suggested I try a different modem cable, so I plan to pick a new one up tomorrow. If all fails I'll get back to you on the port settings. Yes, not only are the wizards moronic, but also online Help. They only help with stuff I can figure out on my own. The troubleshooters and help invariably lead me in circles, or tell me to call support & talk to a real person. > > BTW, you can get a spike suppressor for your computer system that includes > protection for your telephone line so your modem won't get fried. Funny you should mention this. While I was working on this yesterday afternoon, the most horrendous thunder storm came up. I shut down & unplugged from power & phone. My brother came home to tell that they had both a computer & a phone system blown where he works, which is about two miles away. I do have a UPS/surge protector, but it doesn't have the phone line hookups. I bought a surge protector strip w/ phone outlets. The phone outlets got fried pretty soon on that, but not my modem. :-) Right now I'm using a dinky little surge protector which I bought for the laptop. Still, I make it a habit to unplug the phone line whenever I am not using my modem. My CPU has two surge protector strips & the UPS between it and the power line. I still unplug in really nasty lightning storms. Call me paranoid. ;-D (I'm glad we have a cordless phone, too.) Ann Truesdale ("shell-shocked" in coastal SC) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:38:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Staying sane (software games) In a message dated 98-08-31 12:15:33 EDT, you write: << < And someone else (sorry; itchy delete finger) mentioned SimAnt and Creature... >> Any other Shanghai addicts out there?! Bonnie Taylor >> If you are a crossword fan, there is a version that posts the NY Times Xwords. It's nice because you can print out the puzzles and solutions and do them in comfort & with a real pencil. The program is free on AOL (keyword: Games: games central --> games cool links --> amazing games --> NY Times Xword). You can also download it online from the NY Times page (I think) but it costs something like $10 there. Puzzles are posted daily and are free. If anyone not on AOL can't find the web source, e-mail to me & I can check on the website address. Ann Truesdale: still into "BOOKs" and real pencils :-D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:38:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: digest? In a message dated 98-08-30 14:49:59 EDT, you write: << The question is no longer whether we indexers alphabetize our spices (which, for me, is impossible to maintain with three other people going into the pantry), but whether we "hierarchize" our mail folders and Web bookmark/favorites folders. ;-D (Yes, I know "hierarchize" is not a word. It should be as in Italian, which has the nice verb gerachizzare meaning exactly that.) >> Lynn, I have been forced to give up alphabetizing the spices. It is a small price to pay if I can get my husband to cook. Of course, at any given time, we usually have about 3 almost empty bottles of the stuff he uses the most because it is easier for him to open the new bottle than search for the almost empty one. Boy, is that shelf packed & overflowing! I try not to open that cupboard door. Does anyone else out there dream of going through *all* the closets, drawers & cupboards in their house in one great orgy of organizing? I do, but my husband is an "accumulator", so even if the world halted in its tracks for 2 weeks, I couldn't get it done. Nice fantasy though! Ann Truesdale (the dreamer) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:38:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In a message dated 98-08-30 14:49:56 EDT, you write: << SNIPS>> I just want to commiserate with you about your Win98 upgrade. We didn't intend to upgrade to Win98, not wanting to be Bill Gates' beta testers, but were inadvertantly forced to when we bought new computers a few days after Win98 came out. Did we ever have problems! Programs that ran fine under Win95 constantly crashed. Even the applets that are part of the OS frequently crashed. It would even crash when shutting down Windows!!!! Finally, someone on another list told me that folks who had these problems solved them by installing more RAM. Even though we already had 64Meg on each machine, we bought more RAM bringing it up to 128Meg on each machine. Bingo! It solved most of the problems. The weird thing that we noticed, when installing the additional RAM was that if Toshiba DIMMs were put into slot 0 (or whatever the first slot is numbered), the system wouldn't boot at all. We suspect that there is some slight incompatibility of the Toshiba DIMMs with Win98 (being that all the RAM passes the POST test when we boot and the Toshiba DIMMs test out OK on the test gig in the store). Lynn >> Hi Lynn, So much for "32Meg RAM minimum". They always lie about that. Translation: 32Meg RAM minimum IF you don't mind moving at a snail's pace. I definitely will not reload Win98 right now. I only have 32Meg, but plan to upgrade to 64Meg in the near future. In talking about that upgrade with a fellow techno-sufferer, I was told that RAM cards from different manufacturers sometimes won't run together at all. Perhaps that was you problem? So much for compatibility. Ann Truesdale (sardonically) ((had to look that one up)) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:02:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Zip and Jaz drives (was Software NEEDS) The "Click of Death?" Cute name. As I understand it (from the web site referenced below), the problem is that a zip disk goes bad and then the disk does not work in other drives either, hence the conclusion that this is some kind of contagious disk disease. I am amazed that someone has spent so much time and energy as to give this a name AND create an entire website to debate whether it's really a problem. Guess I'm just contributing to the waste by replying... I've used Zip and Jaz drives at work and at home for almost a year, and I love them! Actually, the Zip now seems small and slow compared to the Jaz, but both are necessary for my job which involves transferring large graphics files that may be as large as 40 MB each. I had one disk go bad (yes, it was the "click of death" problem but it didn't cause office-wide disaster) but I just got the files sent to me again. True, with a tight deadline this could be a problem but it's no worse than my computer crashing twice a day or the server going down for no reason, or files just unexplainably becoming corrupt. No storage media is completely reliable, and my experience with Jaz & Zip has been 99% positive. The drives are getting cheaper all the time, and refurbished ones are available through some of the catalogs I get (my Jaz drive at work was purchased as refurbished). Zip disks are MUCH more reliable than floppies! Anne > ---------- > From: J.R. Sampson > Reply To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 1998 6:03 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Software NEEDS > > > Have you considered getting an Iomega Zip drive? > > But beware of the Click of Death. I have a record of a URL on this: > > http://grc.com:80/clickdeath.htm > > but be warned, the author is, if I remember rightly, selling a > software item dealing with this. > > The point is that Zip drives have a reputation for going wrong in a > way that messes up the data on their cartridges and then the > messed-up cartridges themselves when read by other Zip drives sends > them haywire too. The symptom is a regular clicking noise. > > For a buying decision one has to balance this risk against the Zip > drive being inexpensive and having a large user base. > > Regards > > _John Sampson_ > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:12:37 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: digest? In a message dated 9/1/98 8:40:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Anntrue@AOL.COM writes: << Does anyone else out there dream of going through *all* the closets, drawers & cupboards in their house in one great orgy of organizing? I do, but my husband is an "accumulator", so even if the world halted in its tracks for 2 weeks, I couldn't get it done. Nice fantasy though! >> Try moving!! My friends find it quite strange that I love to move. In my imagination I color code everything, make up a heirarchically-arranged notebook, and even arrange the boxes in the right order to put them on the truck so as to come off in the optimum order for the new house. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:23:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: <199808312059.NAA05529@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 01:58 PM 8/31/98 -0700, Michael wrote: >At 11:08 AM 8/30/98 -0700, Lynn Moncrief wrote: >>. . . >> >>BTW, you can get a spike suppressor for your computer system that includes >>protection for your telephone line so your modem won't get fried. ;-D I >>have one that cost over $100 from APC, but I bought it years ago. The one >>protecting Bob's machine (also APC) is a lot cheaper now at $50. (APC >>products carry a $10 or $15,000 guarantee against fried equipment.) > >Lynn, is a spike suppressor different from a surge suppressor, and if so, >how? I have a power strip called a "surge protector" that cost much less >than $50: do you think I need something better? Hi Mike, The neat thing about this list is that there are folks (e.g. Dick and Dave) who are faster on the draw than I am in terms of answering questions. ;-D AFAIK, the terms "surge protector" and "spike suppressor" are synonymous. We, too, have quite a few power strips with spike protection around the house that cost about $15. We plug the stereos and TV into those. (But even our cheap power strips meet UL standards for spike suppression. See below.) However, we stick with the more expensive APC products for the computers because they guarantee your equipment against surges that get past their products. Also, we stick with them for the same reasons that Dave described so glowingly in his post. ;-D I have to admit that an engineer at APC told me that the way I planned to set up the UPS and APC power strips conferred a huge amount of protection for my equipment. If you can live without APCs guarantee, the important things to consider in buying a surge suppressor is that it meets the UL (eeek! I forgot the number! I think it's 1449 or similar) standard for providing good spike suppression. The standard specifies a specific maximum response time to a fast risetime spike. (Most power spikes have a fast risetime, so this is very important. IOW, if the line voltage rises within a few microseconds to an unacceptable level, the spike suppressor has to have a faster response time than the time constant of the sudden rise in voltage to be able to clamp it in time to prevent it from passing through to your equipment.) It also specifies how high a voltage from a (600v?) spike will pass through to your equipment. It doesn't necessarily specify clamping the voltage down to 110vac (if I remember correctly), but it does specify clamping it to within the tolerances that the power supplies in your equipment can safely handle. I hope that this didn't all come off as so much technical mumbo-jumbo. I used to work in a electronics calibration lab where we constantly monitored the voltages on the power lines, so this issue is a biggie with me. ;-D (Also, I'm writing all of this from memory and hope it's accurate.) The issue that started this thread, I think, was telephone (i.e. modem) protection. This is especially important if you live an area (like Dick does) subject to a lot of lightning strikes. A lightening strike on the telephone lines can be coupled right into your modem, frying it and possibly your motherboard in the process. Now, a direct strike on the lines coming right into your home may fry your system, even if you have a spike suppressor that includes telephone line protection. We're talking megavolts here when we're talking about lightning bolts. ;-D As a former technician, I've seen (and had to repair) the damage an extremely close strike can do. Whew! But a telephone line spike suppressor is indeed good protection against strikes on distant lines. Interesting that this subject should come up right now when we're having a 100+ degree heat wave here in So. Cal with record demands on the power grid. The line voltage is fluctuating like crazy here and I am constantly thankful for our APC UPS and power strips. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: digest? Ann Truesdale wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annette Boehmer Subject: Travel SIG/lighting Please advise me if a Travel SIG has been formed. I thought I heard mention of it about a month ago. I have experience as a Travel Consultant/Manager and have taken the first USDA course. (Keeping the second in mind) Also, what preference does anyone have over lighting? I imagine proper lighting can alleviate eyestrain during the wee hours of the night. This summer I finished off a room for my home office with the dropped ceiling yet to go. This means lighting has not been selected. I appreciate all opinions. Annette BooksEnd@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:02:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Travel SIG/lighting In-Reply-To: <199809011443.KAA24078@camel16.mindspring.com> > >Also, what preference does anyone have over lighting? I imagine proper >lighting can alleviate eyestrain during the wee hours of the night. This >summer I finished off a room for my home office with the dropped ceiling yet >to go. This means lighting has not been selected. I appreciate all opinions. This has been a problem for me for a long time. I've tried a variety of floor lamps, goose-neck lamps, etc. A floor lamp with a halogen bulb reflecting toward the ceiling worked pretty well when placed in the corner behind my PC, but replacing halogen bulbs is cumbersome (you have to wear gloves because skin oils on the glass can cause the bulb to burst). My present arrangement is the best I've found. My PC faces into the corner of the room. Behind me, near the ceiling, mounted on the wall, I have 2-tube, four foot fluorescent fixture with a frosted cover. It is high enough on the wall that it doesn't reflect in the PC screen and casts an even light from over my left shoulder. In addition, I have a small adjustable desk lamp that I can spotlight on the book I'm working on. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:48:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Organization: Researcher Writer Editor Subject: Re: spike suppressors On my other listserv (EAC-ACR-L), we recently heard of this disaster: because of a lightning storm, a member had unplugged all her equipment. BUT, there was a direct strike, and the electricity arced out of the wall and STILL trashed the equipment! I wonder if it's better to leave everything hooked up, but to a very good surge protector. Or maybe that massive an amount of electricity would fry everything anyway. Sounds like I may need to improve the protection for my equipment. I use good surge suppressors for my computers, but none for the phone line, and no UPS. Our local power company has been warning us about possible "brownouts" this winter-- previously unheard of in the land of cheap, plentiful power (Alberta). Can a surge protector work as a power line conditioner, too? I've clearly received the message that APC has the best surge protectors. Do they make a UPS too? Can anyone recommend what to look for in these, and tell me how much I have to spend for good protection? I have equipment insurance (home-insurance rider), and almost-daily offsite backups, so if I add this other equipment, I'll feel pretty safe! Kate -- Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing Briefs - Policies - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:20:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In-Reply-To: <199809011241.FAA07471@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> At 08:38 AM 9/1/98 EDT, Ann wrote: >Hi Lynn, > >In talking about that upgrade with a fellow techno-sufferer, I was told that >RAM cards from >different manufacturers sometimes won't run together at all. Perhaps that was >you problem? >So much for compatibility. Hi Ann, You're right. The subtle "gotcha" in this is that all of the RAM is ostensibly "compatible", i.e., 10nsec, SDRAM, same DIMM packaging, etc. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:42:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: A new low Maybe there's an opportunity here for a good technical writer? Where are they located? :-) Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: William Meisheid [SMTP:wgm@SAGELINE.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 11:58 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: A new low > > >I just purchased a software package called InfoSelect from > Micrologic. The > so-called user's manual is a single sheet about the size of a sheet of > newspaper. Each side has ten columns, each about 1.25", in what > appears > to be 8-point type. No index. > > Dick, > > I have been using InfoSelect for years and like but if you think the > "manual" is bad, look at the "help" file. No index either... ;<) > > ________________________________________________ > William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" > WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP > Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com > Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 > 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com > Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP training ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:45:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Staying sane (software games) At 08:38 AM 9/1/98 EDT, Ann Truesdale wrote: > >If you are a crossword fan, there is a version that posts the NY Times Xwords. I enjoy figuring out the "Cryptoquotes" in the paper: anybody know of any books or online resources fot them? Michael ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:15:03 -0500 Reply-To: "jbclend@bigfoot.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: Software NEEDS I, too, would love to see some reviews of FrontPage. I will be getting a free copy shortly to do some volunteer work with, and I'm very curious. I currently use Netscape's Composer, but it has lots of limitations and no graphics editing abilities. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Change: A bend in the road is not the end of the road... Unless you fail to make the turn." -----Original Message----- From: Sonsie [SMTP:sconroy@SLONET.ORG] Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 2:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Software NEEDS At 08:34 PM 8/29/1998 -0700, Lynn Moncrief wrote: >Could you let me know if you like FrontPage? I've been playing around in >Netscape's Composer and indexed a book about FrontPage so long ago that I >really don't remember enough to make a comparison. Me, too! I'm putting together a web page (not for indexing), and would love a review of FrontPage. We can take it to email, if it would disturb the rest of the list. Thanks. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:53:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: digest? Ann Truesdale wrote (among other things): > Does anyone else out there dream of going through *all* the closets, > drawers & > cupboards in their house in one great orgy of organizing? I do, but my > husband > is an "accumulator", so even if the world halted in its tracks for 2 > weeks, I > couldn't get it done. Nice fantasy though. > > I would glory in such a opportunity!! And you use such a nice word--accumulator. I use packrat and scavenger--and worse. Here's to dreams coming true. Toni ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:19:19 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: October 3 Indexing Software Demo ASI-SoCAL invites you to attend a demonstration of three dedicated indexing software programs . . . Macrex, Cindex, and SkyIndex: Professional Tools for Indexers Saturday, October 3, 1998 11:00AM Academic Computing and Information Technology Building, Room 211, Claremont Graduate University, Claremont, California The Southern California chapter is sponsoring this demonstration for those interested in purchasing a dedicated, or stand-alone indexing program. (Stand-alone or dedicated tools, usually used for back-of-the-book indexes, allow indexers to work from page-numbered galleys. The indexing is completely separate from the published material.) These three popular programs support indexing through a host of features that greatly simplify index preparation and enable indexers to produce indexes in virtually any format. We will be conducting a simultaneous demo, allowing you to compare the three programs as we create, edit, and perform various key functions using a sample index. You will also be able to ask questions of experienced users of the three programs. Literature and pricing information about the programs will be available. A box lunch (choices listed below) and soft drinks will be available. Cost of the program and lunch is $25.00. Directions to the meeting location are given on the form below. If you are interested, please print out and return the form below, with your check for $25 made out to ASI SoCal, by September 18 to: Debbie Lindblom 2031-11 S. Mountain Ave. Ontario, CA, 91762. Alindblom@aol.com If you are coming from a long distance and would like information on lodging and local activities, please contact Bonny McLaughlin at Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu or 909-607 3904. Thanks very much. We hope to see you in Claremont. ****************************************************** Macrex, Cindex, and SkyIndex Demonstration: Registration Form. (Please print out and send, by September 18, with your check for $25 made out to ASI SoCal, to Debbie Lindblom, 2031-11 So. Mountain Ave., Ontario, CA, 91762) Please register ______ persons to attend the October 3 indexing software demonstration. Name(s)___________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Address___________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Phone___________________ E-Mail_____________________ Please indicate your choice of box lunch menu: _____Chicken Breast on Pasta Salad with Roasted Roma Tomato Dressing, Fresh Fruit, Roll _____Chicken Salad Croissant Sandwich with Pasta Salad with SunDried Tomatoes, Crisp Vegetable Sticks, and Fresh Fruit _____On the Light Side (Vegetarian): Pasta Salad with Sun Dried Tomatoes, Crisp Vegetable Sticks with Dip, a skewer of Fresh Fruit and a Roll A selection of soft drinks will be available. Directions: >From 10 freeway, exit at Indian Hill Blvd. Head north on Indian Hill Blvd. until you reach First Street in Claremont Village. Turn right on to First Street and proceed to College Avenue (about 4 blks). Turn left on to College Ave. and proceed north until you reach Eighth Street. Turn right on to Eighth Street, then turn left into the first driveway, at the sign for Academic Computing Building. The meeting will be on the second floor, Room 211. >From the 210 Freeway, proceed east to the end of the freeway at Foothill Blvd. Follow Foothill east to Claremont (about 3 miles). Turn right at the entrance to the Claremont Colleges at Dartmouth Ave. Proceed south on Dartmouth to Eighth Street. Turn right on to Eighth Street, then right into the first driveway. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:55:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: alphabetizing spices and filing e-mail messages by priority In-Reply-To: <199809011240.IAA17063@camel20.mindspring.com> Ann, you could if your husband went away on a long business trip.=20 My mother, who is a highly organized person _and_ an accumulator (as a result of being a Depression-era teen), and does have her spices and all her canned goods alphabetized, threatened to divorce my father in August of 1961 =97 and I'm not sure she was joking =97 because my father, an even more organized person, suggested labeling the kitchen drawers with strips of masking tape, because things kept turning up in the wrong drawers. The problems were that neither agreed with the other's ideas of where things ought to go and they both cooked, so the kitchen was shared territory, and my much older sister was 17 at the time and never known for her common sense*. I'm not sure how the row ended, but the drawers were never labeled. My sister and I were banished from the kitchen midway through, when we started making bets as part of our color commentary. With Eudora, if you receive individual e-mail messages and filter them into separate files, you can perform triage by sorting the files. Except for In, Out, and Trash, files in Eudora are alphabetized, single files first and folders last. Internet Explorer alphabetizes files after folders. If you want the programs to present files in a certain order, just name them with an alphabetical prefix that will force them into that order. You don't have to accept the site name suggested by your Web crawler; the program only cares about the URL. I put everything into folders and make sure I give them names that will alphabetize correctly. For example, my bookmarks (I miss Netscape) in Internet Explorer for the sites on Eudora that I mentioned the other day are organized like this: FORM NAME URL Folder : Computer Folder : Eudora File : converter File : FAQ File : Qualcomm File : tips = Cheers, Deborah, a true child of her parents shawd@mindspring.com * That was the year that my sister took the top off the pressure cooker while it was pressurized (to see if the peas were done), washed and dried (and so felted) the handknit wool sweater that Aunt Ardell gave me (it did fit my smallest doll afterwards), got 1598 on her SATs, and made the only 100 in the history of the school on her final exam in Latin. No, she didn't get hurt but we picked peas off the ceiling for months and the teachers still remembered her when I came through almost a decade later. =93You're Barbara Shaw's sister? We'll expect a lot from you, then.=94 ----- Lynn wrote: > The question is no longer whether we indexers alphabetize our spices (which, for me, is impossible to maintain with three other people going into the pantry), but whether we "hierarchize" our mail folders and Web bookmark/favorites folders. ;-D (Yes, I know "hierarchize" is not a word. It should be as in Italian, which has the nice verb gerachizzare meaning exactly that.) < Ann wrote: > I have been forced to give up alphabetizing the spices. It is a small price to pay if I can get my husband to cook. . . .I do, but my husband is an "accumulator", so even if the world halted in its tracks for 2 weeks, I couldn't get it done. Nice fantasy though! < ----- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:47:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: UK residents Hi, I have a friend who lives in a small place called Dorney, near Windsor in Berkshire and needs to know what internet provider would be best to use. TIA and please respond off-list. Toni ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:50:03 +0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Zip and Jaz drives (was Software NEEDS) In-Reply-To: >. I am > amazed that someone has spent so much time and energy as to give > this a name AND create an entire website to debate whether it's > really a problem. Guess I'm just contributing to the waste by > replying... I don't think we can be looking at the same Web site. Metacrawler turns up 52 web references on the 'click of death'. A better reference might be the "Unofficial" Web site: http://www.thirdeyesp.com/isage/iomega/ The problem has been known for a year. I don't know who first called it the 'click of death'. I cannot say how serious a problem it really is, but some Zip owners have expressed a wish to have known about it before buying a Zip drive rather than afterwards, hence it seemed worthwhile to mention it. Regards _John Sampson_ ------------------------------------------------- John R. Sampson jsampson@indexes.u-net.com (for certified PGP public key search for this address on World Wide Web at http://www.Four11.com/) ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:43:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael C. Rossa" Subject: Re: Zip and Jaz drives (was Software NEEDS) In-Reply-To: <199809011307.IAA22237@centurion.flash.net> At 09:02 AM 9/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >The "Click of Death?" Cute name. As I understand it (from the web site >referenced below), the problem is that a zip disk goes bad and then the >disk does not work in other drives either, hence the conclusion that >this is some kind of contagious disk disease. I am amazed that someone >has spent so much time and energy as to give this a name AND create an >entire website to debate whether it's really a problem. Guess I'm just >contributing to the waste by replying... > A quick look at the newsgroup alt.iomega.zip.jazz seems to indicate an extensive problem. However, it's the drive that goes bad, not a disk. Then, after the defective drive ruins the disk by incorrectly writing data, the disk cannot be read by any other drive. Apparently the commercial product, SpinRite 5.0, is the best one to retrieve the data (at least according to Byte Magazine, PC Week, PC Magazine, and others). Sounds useful to me. According to the discussion, even Iomega admits to the problem but claims it affects less than one percent of the drives in the market. Still, if Iomega is being honest about the figures, one poster claims that would amount to well over 120,000 people suffering from severe data loss when it happens. The theory seems to be that later Zip and Jazz drives aren't being built with the same quality as the earlier ones. Personally, I now use (and love) the same Zip drive on my Pentium that I used originally on a Mac. But I have one of the very first ones, bought just before they became so popular they were hard to find (and took weeks or months to be delivered). Mike **************** Michael C. Rossa Allied Editorial 972-267-2537 972-267-2538 fax rossa@flash.net **************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:22:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Travel SIG/lighting For years I wore a visor while I worked at the computer. I looked strange at first but then everyone else in the office adopted the same habit and I didn't feel so funny about it. Now I work with my side to the window (about 3 feet away) and have florescents sitting behind a high shelf with the light bouncing off the ceiling a la Frank Lloyd Wright. It is perfect. No strain whatever! Nell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:30:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zip and Jaz drives In a message dated 98-09-01 09:07:53 EDT, you write: << No storage media is completely reliable, and my experience with Jaz & Zip has been 99% positive. Zip disks are MUCH more reliable than floppies! >> They are great. But DO NOT run scandisk on them. Iomega tech support says this can ruin the disk. Micki Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:20:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: RTF files A few weeks ago I posted a complaint to the list in general that I was having trouble with Rich Text Format files created by Cindex. Since then I have been in touch with tech support at Indexing Research and they have come up with a solution to the specific problem I had, which was that when I opened the Cindex RTF file with my word processor, instead of seeing the Courier font I had saved it in, I saw Symbol font, which looks like Greek. They also corrected a problem for Macintosh users who have HP DeskWriter printers, in which it was impossible to specify a range of pages for reprinting. All Macintosh Cindex users will be receiving notification of the update soon. I wish to publicly thank everyone at Indexing Research for a job well done. Thank you! Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:02:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Travel SIG/lighting I think that you will find that fluorescent lighting is a bad idea with computer monitors and to read/work by. Fluorescent lights flicker subtlely, as do computer monitors. Unfortunately, they do not flicker together, which can give you a headache after awhile, even though the flickering is imperceivable to the naked eye until either the bulb or the monitor are getting ready to go (you've all seen fluorescent bulbs do this, and if you haven't already, notice the next time you seen a computer monitor on a television broadcast, like the local news or something. The flickering is very obvious there). Because of the flickering, incandescent lighting works better for reading, too. Fluorescents can be fine for background lighting, and I understand that compact fluorescent bulbs (if you can live with the bright white color) don't have the flickering problem, but personally, I would use incandescent lighting around my work area. Please note that this is just my humble opinion! :-) -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:22:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: kytyn Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: <199809011652.LAA10667@centurion.flash.net> Ok, I have to reply to this one. I was away from my house when there was an apparently really close lightning strike. We think it came in partially through the phone lines because the internal computer modem had a hole burned through it! We had to replace the following which were all on 'normal' surge protectors: computer printer TV VCRs (2) stereo system We also had to replace or have repaired: hot water heater water bed heater ceiling fan garage door openers (2) sprinkler system alarm system answering machine the cable for cable TV! The strangest part was that the surge protectors weren't even tripped! It's like they said, "Oh, no, you're way too much for me to handle, why don't I just stand back and let you go on through, Mr. Electricity." Anyway, we didn't have the guarantee that some surge protectors do but our home insurance came through nicely. A big pain overall but it could've been worse. So, if I had any advice it would be to have good surge protectors with guarantees AND good home insurance (or maybe the other way around), just in case. -kytyn Kelly Kerr ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:04:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: spike suppressors Michael, get their videotape to see the real story! Actually, "impressive" meant that while this chap's lights flickered, and perhaps went out, the surge suppressor sacrificed itself to protect the equipment. That is, it performed its job by grounding out all the elements -- high- and low-frequency, direct-current -- and blowing up in the process! Not really, since the huge arc that must have occurred was contained entirely within the protector; but there were scorch marks on the wall and floor. I suspect the BANG was pretty dramatic. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: <199809020420.XAA26076@shooter.bluemarble.net> I have no special knowledge or experience about spike suppressors protecting an electronic system. In my readings about the medical effects of lightning, I have seen that it is not unusual for all that power to go in many different directions, some of it following poor conductors and some leaping through the air from target to target. Perhaps the spike protectors that did not trip actually were not along the route that the electricity took. Marvant Duhon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: RTF files In-Reply-To: <199809020119.VAA04112@mail2.bellsouth.net> I have two cross-platform programs that also prefer to import/export files in RTF, and I have continual problems with both of them. And I'm presently copyediting a book for an author (a Mac-user) who kept sending me the chapters by email in RTF format, and Word97 just made a hash of them. (I finally got him to send them to me in Word native format, which works just fine.) IAC, I'm highly suspicious of the actual utility of RTF.... Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Craig Brown |Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 8:20 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: RTF files | | |A few weeks ago I posted a complaint to the list in general that I was |having trouble with Rich Text Format files created by Cindex. Since then |I have been in touch with tech support at Indexing Research and they have |come up with a solution to the specific problem I had, which was that |when I opened the Cindex RTF file with my word processor, instead of |seeing the Courier font I had saved it in, I saw Symbol font, which looks |like Greek. | |They also corrected a problem for Macintosh users who have HP DeskWriter |printers, in which it was impossible to specify a range of pages for |reprinting. | |All Macintosh Cindex users will be receiving notification of the update |soon. | |I wish to publicly thank everyone at Indexing Research for a job well |done. | |Thank you! | |Craig Brown | |===================================================== | The Last Word lastword@i1.net | Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword | (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 |===================================================== | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:40:36 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Thomas P. Copley" Subject: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open Workshops on the World Wide Web (WWW) for the beginner and slightly more advanced user will be conducted monthly this fall by Arlington Courseware. Three sessions of each workshop are now open. Both are eight week distance-learning workshops conducted entirely by HTML mail.* MAKE THE LINK WORKSHOP: WORLD WIDE WEB FOR EVERYONE This workshop focuses on how to gain maximum advantage from the Web. It covers how to gain access to the WWW, linking to and interpreting URLs, distinguishing between different browsers, navigating and searching, organizing your bookmarks, designing your own home page with HTML and installing it on a server, utilizing principles of good Web design, and choosing between and using HTML editors. The cost is $20. For further information, see the Make the Link Workshop home page: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/links.html TUNE IN THE NET: GLOBAL REACH FOR THE 21st CENTURY This is the sequel to Make the Link, but may be taken independently by the more experienced beginner or intermediate user. It concentrates on Internet interactivity and assisting the more experienced user in making his or her Web pages into a standout interactive site. It covers prototyping Web pages with page generators and site builders, making HTML forms, using client-side image maps, customizing pages with frames and HTML 4.0, making content interactive with layers, dynamic HTML, Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), scripting with JavaScript, and utilizing push media, such as Netscape Netcaster and Microsoft Active Channels. The cost is $40. For additional information, see the Tune In the Net Workshop home page: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/tune.html The cost of both workshops taken together is $55. HOW TO SIGN UP Three Make the Link Workshops are scheduled for this fall: September Session September 14 - November 6 October Session September 28 - November 20 November Session November 2 - December 23 Three Tune In the Net Workshops are also scheduled: September Session September 14 - November 6 October Session September 28 - November 20 November Session November 2 - December 23 Sign up for ONE session of each workshop only unless you plan to take it more than once. To sign up, please send an email message to the address: majordomo@arlington.com and in the body of the message, include the words: to subscribe to: ------------------ ---------------- subscribe links-sep the September session of Make the Link subscribe links-oct the October session of Make the Link subscribe links-nov the November session of Make the Link subscribe tune-sep the September session of Tune In the Net subscribe tune-oct the October session of Tune In the Net subscribe tune-nov the November session of Tune In the Net This will automatically put you on the mailing list for more information about each workshop, and you will receive an acknowledgment with the particulars about signing up, and unsubscribing, should you decide not to participate. If you have any difficulty with this procedure or fail to receive a response, please send email to the address in the signature line. * A plain ASCII text version is also available. ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY admin@arlington.com Dynamic Duo Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:09:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open -----Original Message----- From: Thomas P. Copley To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 9:37 AM Subject: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open >Workshops on the World Wide Web (WWW) for the beginner and slightly >more advanced user will be conducted monthly this fall by Arlington >Courseware. Three sessions of each workshop are now open. Both >are eight week distance-learning workshops conducted entirely by >HTML mail.* > > > MAKE THE LINK WORKSHOP: WORLD WIDE WEB FOR EVERYONE > > This workshop focuses on how to gain maximum advantage from the > Web. It covers how to gain access to the WWW, linking to and > interpreting URLs, distinguishing between different browsers, > navigating and searching, organizing your bookmarks, designing > your own home page with HTML and installing it on a server, > utilizing principles of good Web design, and choosing between and > using HTML editors. > > The cost is $20. For further information, see the Make the Link > Workshop home page: > > http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/links.html > > > TUNE IN THE NET: GLOBAL REACH FOR THE 21st CENTURY > > This is the sequel to Make the Link, but may be taken > independently by the more experienced beginner or intermediate > user. It concentrates on Internet interactivity and assisting > the more experienced user in making his or her Web pages into a > standout interactive site. It covers prototyping Web pages with > page generators and site builders, making HTML forms, using > client-side image maps, customizing pages with frames and HTML > 4.0, making content interactive with layers, dynamic HTML, > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), scripting with JavaScript, and > utilizing push media, such as Netscape Netcaster and Microsoft > Active Channels. > > The cost is $40. For additional information, see the Tune In the > Net Workshop home page: > > http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/tune.html > > > The cost of both workshops taken together is $55. > > >HOW TO SIGN UP > >Three Make the Link Workshops are scheduled for this fall: > > September Session September 14 - November 6 > October Session September 28 - November 20 > November Session November 2 - December 23 > >Three Tune In the Net Workshops are also scheduled: > > September Session September 14 - November 6 > October Session September 28 - November 20 > November Session November 2 - December 23 > >Sign up for ONE session of each workshop only unless you plan to take >it more than once. To sign up, please send an email message to the >address: > > majordomo@arlington.com > >and in the body of the message, > > include the words: to subscribe to: > ------------------ ---------------- > > subscribe links-sep the September session of Make the Link > subscribe links-oct the October session of Make the Link > subscribe links-nov the November session of Make the Link > > subscribe tune-sep the September session of Tune In the Net > subscribe tune-oct the October session of Tune In the Net > subscribe tune-nov the November session of Tune In the Net > >This will automatically put you on the mailing list for more >information about each workshop, and you will receive an acknowledgment >with the particulars about signing up, and unsubscribing, should >you decide not to participate. > >If you have any difficulty with this procedure or fail to receive >a response, please send email to the address in the signature >line. > >* A plain ASCII text version is also available. > >________________________________________________________________ >THOMAS P. COPLEY admin@arlington.com >Dynamic Duo Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ Now come on!!! This type of advertising we should surely take off of here. Perhaps it is of interest to some, however we have had countless posts about people receiving some lessons but not others from this guy. SOME have had success w/ it, but the vast majority have lost there money in this little operation. After repeated tries, they could never contact him about the problem. If we know this, why are we still allowing him on- never mind the fact that it is breaking university rules. I wonder what a call to the university would result in? Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:39:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Hurd Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open I am still out my $35.00 from the XML course that I didn't receive all of. They won't even return my E-Mail. Rick Hurd Rick's Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:42:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open In-Reply-To: <199809021404.KAA04458@library.lib.binghamton.edu> Kevin, and others who are offended by this sort of thing. I have written to Mr. Copley advising him about the no advertisement policy. I assume that he will comply. Again, this sort of thing may be of interest to some and I asked him in the future to limit his message to a very brief announcement with no mention of charges and to include a url where more information can be found. The only way to absolutely keep this sort of thing out of the messages that you receive is for me to resume screening messages. I don't think you want me to do that and I know that it is the last thing that I want to do. As far as complaining to the University, keeping listservs non-commercial is a policy that is understood, but not enforced at this level as far as I know. It is up to me as list-owner to monitor this...and I am. I understand your concern, but list traffic cannot be perfect. Feel free to delete. Thanks, Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:48:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: DUO -- Special Announcement I received this note from Copley this morning. I too had been wondering what happened to the course materials, and had no email response to my messages. So for whatever it is worth - here's what he had to say. I think it was pretty awful to not send an email to the participants to tell them what had happened. >Return-Path: >From: owner-duo-jun@arlington.com >Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:07:32 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: DUO -- Special Announcement >To: duo-outgoing@kiki.arlington.com >Reply-To: tcopley@arlington.com >Sender: owner-duo-jun@arlington.com > > >Dear Workshop Participants: > >I owe you both an explanation and an apology. > >Last summer when I undertook the Dynamic Duo Workshop, it was unclear >to me how unsettled the standards were for for those technologies that >support XML. I refer specifically to XSL, XLink, XPointer and the DOM. >While the recommendation for XML itself is quite stable, I realized about >the beginning of June that I could not rely on some of the supporting >standards--in particular the one for XSL. It was then widely rumored >that the syntax for XSL would be radically changing. The XSL spec >with the new syntax was promised in July, so I decided to wait until >it was published before completing the workshop. Unfortunately, >the XSL working draft did not finally appear until August 18, 1998, >thus severely delaying the entire workshop. In retrospect, it would >have been far better had I given you a "heads-up" on this situation, >but I had expected much earlier publication of the spec. > >I certainly am sorry for the delay, and hope to have additional tutorials >out shortly. I also apologize if you have sent any email that I have >failed to answer. I will do my best to eventually answer everyone. > >Thank you all for your patience. > >Regards, > >Tom > >________________________________________________________________ >THOMAS P. COPLEY admin@arlington.com >Dynamic Duo Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:08:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Eileen Allen Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE> Fall Web Workshops Now Open In-Reply-To: <199809021405.KAA02713@ns1.textwise.com> I agree with Kevin Brocolli - I was stung by Thomas Copley, and I believe his postings should be banned from this list. Eileen Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:48:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: alphabetizing spices and filing e-mail messages by priority Did you hear about the indexer who learned to play the piano and could on= ly play scales? ------------------------------------------------------------- Sue Lightfoot =AD Indexing, Proofreading Tremorva, Talland Hill, Polperro, Cornwall PL13 2RZ, England Tel/Fax: 01503 273006 Email: SLightfoot@compuserve.com ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:20:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Web indexes In-Reply-To: <199808250114.SAA29332@mail-gw.pacbell.net> Hi Charlene, I know it's been a while since your original post (included at the end of this message). I visited your Web site and it looked fine. In fact, I even saved the files to a Zip disk so that I can study the source code at leisure. ;-D (I hope you don't mind.) I was very favorably impressed by your index! I have a few questions for you. I'm in the throes of doing my own Web index (the CardioIndex) and have run into the same problem that you did--double-spacing in strange places. (The only pages that I've brought into HTML so far is the home page and two others that aren't part of the index itself.) I've pored through the HTML code and can't find any spurious line break tags (
  • tags) or anything else that can cause it. How did you solve this problem and what was the offending code that you found and removed? I'm also having problems with inconsistencies in 3-D shading of horizontal lines and table borders, but eventually I'll get that resolved, I hope. (I'm thinking that Netscape Composer has a few bugs. The same problems show up in Netscape Navigator and MS Internet Explorer. So it must be the code. OTOH, Word 97 gets all the line spacing and 3-D stuff right, oddly enough, but screws up the size of the table cells. Aiiish!) My second question is (I hope) of more interest to the list at large because it specifically involves creating Web indexes. While creating your index, how did you handle the URLs for each entry? I was actually entering them into Macrex as a sublevel to each entry they belonged to, but this made the index a nightmare to scan and edit. The original idea was that when I ported the entire thing into Webix for conversion to HTML, it would have the URLs to create the links. I then tacked phoney "page numbers" onto each entry simply so that Macrex wouldn't complain about the lack of page numbers. Then I decided to not enter the URLs into Macrex, but just "locators" that refer to an ongoing Word document that matches each locator to a URL. Unfortunately, this will create a huge amount of work later on where I'll have to actually add the URLs to the index. (I'm thinking that I'll have to generate a page-order sort after polishing the index, copy and paste each URL into its associated entry, then regenerate the index in alphabetical order. When you consider that the CardioIndex will eventually contain quite a few thousand entries... eeek! I still haven't decided whether to use your method, Charlene, of using "locators" in the actual Web index. It does nicely get around the problem of what to do with entries that point to multiple URLs. The only alternative that I've been able to come up with is having such entries link to another page containing descriptive blurbs of what someone will find at each URL if they follow it. But this will entail a huge amount of work and will greatly enlarge the size of the entire site. It will also make the user click yet again to get to the information they want. OTOH, it may save them time because it will certainly be faster to load another page within the CardioIndex than to go to several sites that may not quite meet their needs. (I'm trying to design the CardioIndex pages to load as quickly as possible, yet not look sterile.) If anyone has any thoughts or experience on how to handle locators, I'd love to hear them. TIA. Lynn At 07:54 PM 8/24/98 -0700, Charlene wrote: >I'm back. And I promise not to say y'all. > >I need your help again. My USDA course instructor has very kindly made >suggestions for improvements to my webpage. I will start working on >those right away. > >My concern today, however, is with the HTML. On my computer the index >looks fine--everything is spaced correctly. My instructor sent me a >print-out of my website that shows double spacing in several areas that >definitely was not intended. It is a mystery to me why it doesn't show >up on my monitor or even on my print-outs. > >A possible HTML error has been discovered and corrected, but now I can't >trust my computer. Therefore, I would appreciate your taking one more >quick look to see if there are any spacing problems or any other glaring >errors. > >Thanks. > >Charlene Puryear >cpuryear@cpis.net > > *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:26:50 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Web indexes Lynn Moncrief wrote: > > I've pored through the HTML code and can't find any spurious > line break tags (
  • tags) or anything else that can cause it. The
  • tag designates the following text as a new List Item. It's used in unordered (UL), ordered (OL), and other list types. The tag that triggers a line break is
    . > The original idea was that when I ported the > entire thing into Webix for conversion to HTML, it would have the > URLs to create the links. I then tacked phoney "page numbers" onto > each entry simply so that Macrex wouldn't complain about the lack > of page numbers. > > ... Unfortunately, this will create a huge > amount of work later on where I'll have to actually add the URLs > to the index. (I'm thinking that I'll have to generate a page-order > sort after polishing the index, copy and paste each URL into its > associated entry, then regenerate the index in alphabetical order. > When you consider that the CardioIndex will eventually contain quite > a few thousand entries... eeek! Eeek, indeed. Please see http://www.brown-inc.com/indexer/FAQ.htm for news about HTML Indexer, a much easier way to create and maintain indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. --David ============================== David M. Brown -- Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com http://www.brown-inc.com/ ============================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:46:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: Rocky Mtn Indexing Conference, Oct 10th The Colorado Chapter of ASI is pleased to announce the following Professional Development Seminar at the FOURTH ROCKY MOUNTAIN INDEXING CONFERENCE October 10, 1998, 9:00 to 5:30 Meadows Branch Library Boulder, Colorado Do Mi Stauber will be presenting her all-day workshop entitled "Facing the Test: Content Analysis and Entry Selection in Social Sciences and Humanities Indexing" This participatory workshop focuses on the practical processes of indexing. We will survey the steps that indexers follow as we interpret texts and create index structures, using hand-on exercises from a range of real texts and indexes. It is not a basic introduction to indexing, but novices as well as experienced indexers will benefit. A brochure is available. Further information is available from Edythe Porpa at telephone 303-442-2847, or from Ingrid Becher at ihbecher@aol.com or from Hannah Huse at huse@aol.com (not available 9/22 to 10/8) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:18:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Staying sane/juggling roles In a message dated 98-08-31 12:04:56 EDT, you write: > n a message dated 8/31/98 11:44:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > kbab@NORTHNET.ORG writes: > > << Often I do a grounding exercise that I find helpful. >> > > I could use some grounding! I was trying to clean the kitchen the other day, > and I came across a plant I wanted to put in a pot my daughter made. I took > it outside to plant it and and ...(snip) ... So I took those back to the kitchen--the > same filthy kitchen I had started cleaning thirty minutes earlier!!! > > Bonnie Taylor > Bonnie, I think we must be soul mates of a sort; but I am really glad we do not co-exist in the same space. We would probably fall over each other while puttering from one half-done job to the next. I also do the "why am I here?" thing. I go to the kitchen because I'm thirsty. There, when I remember I came to get something to drink, I realize that I've left my insulated mug on my desk at the other end of the house. On the way to fetch it, I get diverted until I again realize I am thirsty and go to the desk. Then I wonder why I am there and see something that catches my attention -- until I realize I'm thirsty.... It is a wonder that I don't write cross references that circle around and lead back to the starting point. Let's see -- *what* was I doing? Oh, catching up on my e-mail! That one was easy! Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:18:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: spike suppressors In a message dated 98-08-31 19:30:25 EDT, you write: > > At 07:03 PM 8/31/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Dick, I can't think that you -- or your modem -- were THAT unlucky! > >May I respectfully suggest that APC provides premier equipment to > >avoid your very disaster. > > That's what I have. That, and an Isotel spike protector on the phone line. > The service guy who replaed the modem was at a loss to explain it. > > Dick > I believe that, if the voltage is high enough, the surge (or spike) can fry whatever safety breaker is in a UPS or surge protector. They are designed to filter out the usual line surges, but if lightning strikes your power or phone line AND you are unlucky, nothing but unplugging will save you. On power lines, at least, that surge can channel to one circuit or outlet in your house. Once during a thunderstorm the light bulb in the ceiling socket exploded in my room. Nothing else in the house was touched, but my adrenaline levels were pretty high for a while! Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:18:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Organizing (was digest?) In a message dated 98-09-01 09:14:19 EDT, you write: > > In a message dated 9/1/98 8:40:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Anntrue@AOL.COM > writes: > > << > Does anyone else out there dream of going through *all* the closets, > drawers > & > cupboards in their house in one great orgy of organizing? I do, but my > husband > is an "accumulator", so even if the world halted in its tracks for 2 weeks, > I > couldn't get it done. Nice fantasy though! > >> > > Try moving!! My friends find it quite strange that I love to move. > > Nell > Nell, Unfortunately, I am part of a family that almost never moves. Last June I helped my cousins move out of a house where their family had lived for over 75 years. Now, 3 generations of "stuff" in an old house that had wiring & plumbing circa 1940 and a leaking roof is *very* interesting -- also, no AC -- in Charleston, SC -- in June. (Great house in the snootiest part of town, but no one had the $200,000+ to renovate it.) I am better off, since we moved into this house in 1980, but I've decided nobody should be allowed to live in the same house for over 20 years. We are planning to remodel/add-on, and I hope that helps; but we've only got 18 months left! Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:59:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen K Passey Subject: Re: spike suppressors Popping out of lurk-limbo... I don't know if it's available in all areas (and maybe others have more experience with this), but where I live in western Washington, there is an additional level of surge protection available from the local utility district. For a small monthly charge (in the $3 range), we have an external surge protector that's installed between the house and the supply, which is *supposed* to provide enough protection to at least mitigate even a direct lightning strike on the lines. Fortunately, we've never had to check out its lightning muscle, but it seemed worth the investment, since we get a lot of surges. I would never rely on it alone, but it does give an extra layer of security. It might be worth investigating - it's not widely advertised. Now if the phone company would offer something similar... Helen (c: _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:44:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Taylor Subject: Re: Organizing (was digest?) << I am better off, since we moved into this house in 1980, but I've decided nobody should be allowed to live in the same house for over 20 years. >> One nice thing about the military: we get plenty of chances to move and therefore plenty of chances to get rid of stuff. (Then again, there's also the junk we cart from post to post, 'cause hey those curtains have to fit SOME window at SOME point.) The other nice thing (actually it's the flip-side of a not-so-nice thing) is that when my husband is away, I get quite a lot of organizing done--which is odd since he is by far the more organized of the two of us! He went to Germany for 2 weeks once, and when he got home there wasn't a stick of furniture that hadn't been moved! Bonnie Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:47:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: <199809030608.CAA02884@camel20.mindspring.com> At 10:59 PM 9/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >I don't know if it's available in all areas (and maybe others have more >experience with this), but where I live in western Washington, there is >an additional level of surge protection available from the local utility >district. For a small monthly charge (in the $3 range), we have an >external surge protector that's installed between the house and the >supply, which is *supposed* to provide enough protection to at least >mitigate even a direct lightning strike on the lines. Carolina Power & Light offered such a service, but when I looked closely it only protected large appliances with electric motors. Sensitive electronics still needed individual protection. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:42:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Web indexes In-Reply-To: <199809022234.PAA20206@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 03:26 PM 9/2/98 -0700, David M. Brown wrote: >Lynn Moncrief wrote: >> >> I've pored through the HTML code and can't find any spurious >> line break tags (
  • tags) or anything else that can cause it. > >The
  • tag designates the following text as a new List Item. It's >used in unordered (UL), ordered (OL), and other list types. > >The tag that triggers a line break is
    . Hi Dave, Eeek! You're right! I don't know where my mind was when I wrote that. I was looking for spurious
    tags though. Thanks, too, for the tip about HTML Indexer. I'll visit your site. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:16:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: spike suppressors In-Reply-To: <199809030319.UAA28595@mail-gw6.pacbell.net> At 11:18 PM 9/2/98 EDT, Ann Truesdale wrote: >I believe that, if the voltage is high enough, the surge (or spike) can fry >whatever safety breaker is in a UPS or surge protector. Hi Ann, You're right. That's why I said in an earlier post that UPS and surge protectors don't necessarily protect against a direct lightning strike. A lightning bolt is up in the megavolt range--we're talking MILLIONS of volts. ;-D I forgot to mention in that post that it's important that the UPS or surge protector be plugged into an outlet with a good ground (or "earth", for the Brits on our list ;-D). A ground (or earth) connection is essential because spikes and surges are coupled to ground by the spike suppressor. The fact that an outlet will accept a three-pronged plug is NO guarantee that the ground is good in that outlet. My APC spike suppressors have a green light that indicates whether it is connected to an adequate ground. I had to go searching for such an outlet in our last home because I didn't get the green light, literally and figuratively. ;-D We have an even worse problem in our current house. The office is in the old part of the house where the outlets (except for the bathroom) are ungrounded. So we have to run a monster extension cord to the "new" part of the house to connect all of our computer equipment, UPSes, and spike suppressors to a grounded outlet. Hubby and I thought about installing grounded outlets ourselves, but we'd get our landlord in trouble because we're not licensed electricians. :=( They are designed to >filter out the usual line surges, but if lightning strikes your power or phone >line AND you are unlucky, nothing but unplugging will save you. On power >lines, at least, that surge can channel to one circuit or outlet in your >house. This sort of reminds me of the arrangement that's used in Italy. A lot of houses are fitted with a device that senses the static charge that builds up prior to a lightning strike and automatically disconnects the house from the mains when that happens. So, you lose power to your home, but there is no way for the energy from a lightning strike to be coupled into your home and equipment (except via the phone lines). In fact, one guy whose equipment was fried via a lightning strike could not get warranted repairs because his house wasn't fitted with one of these devices. Once during a thunderstorm the light bulb in the ceiling socket >exploded in my room. Nothing else in the house was touched, but my adrenaline >levels were pretty high for a while! Yiiikes!!! That must have been scarey! Lynn > >Ann Truesdale > > *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:06:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: Copley Workshops Chill Everyone! You can delete the workshop messages! My own experience w/the Copley workshops was A-OK. No problems at all. I received all material and he answered my emails. Even castanets don't click every time...(granted, a silly saying, but you get my drift) Becky ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:25:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: Copley Workshops -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Carr To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:02 PM Subject: Copley Workshops >Chill Everyone! You can delete the workshop messages! > >My own experience w/the Copley workshops was A-OK. No problems at all. >I received all material and he answered my emails. > >Even castanets don't click every time...(granted, a silly saying, but you >get my drift) > >Becky Nonetheless, you seem to be one of the very few that have had good experiences w/ this workshcam. I don't think that one out of 10 or so is too good of a ratio. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:20:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? Thanks, Ann -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:09:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? Funny you should ask that, since I just got finished evaluating Quark 4.03's indexing features. I haven't put it through rigorous testing, but I have tried out the product to get an overall feel for how it works. (In other words, I've played with it but haven't indexed a complete book with it......yet.) I found Quark's indexing module to be quite cumbersome, actually. It has a few nice features, such as being able to specify a page range for individual index entries (couldn't do that with the previous IndeXTension), and being able to see all the entries for the current document as they will appear in the compiled index. But it's quite lacking in other areas, such as useful keyboard shortcuts. It will only allow you to put in one entry at a time, so if you want to double-post something you have to type in the first entry, click out of the indexing box into the laid out document, move your cursor, then click back into the indexing box and type the second entry. As far as I know, there are no keyboard shortcuts to move the cursor while you're still in the indexing dialog box. Quite annoying when you want to type several entries for one section of text. It is also rather cumbersome in its method of coding second, third, and fourth levels (it allows up to four levels of sub-entries). You can only type one level at a time in the box. So if you want to type, say, "QuarkXPress, indexing features of" as two separate levels because you'll have several other entries for "QuarkXPress", you have to type "QuarkXPress" and label it as level 1. Then you have to make sure a special arrow character is next to "QuarkXPress" in your indexing dialog box before you type "indexing features of" and label it as level 2. Otherwise, it doesn't know what level 1 entry you want the level 2 sub-entry to be under. Confused yet? If you want to use Quark's indexing module, I highly recommend playing with the program as much as possible to get a feel for how it works and what you can and cannot do with it. The help features of the program are totally worthless ("index" isn't even a topic), so I'd also recommend finding a good book to walk you through coding and compiling Quark indexes. I'd recommend one of ours, but I don't think we've published one yet. :) Cheryl Jackson Macmillan Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? Author: Ann Norcross at internet Date: 9/3/98 1:20 PM Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? Thanks, Ann -- Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services (919) 852-0042 mailto:norcross@ipass.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:50:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? I do not own QuarkXPress, but recently a client sent me booktext files saved in Quark. They sent it on a Zip disk along with a printed directory. If I remember correctly, the files took up about 17 mb of disk space. When I told them I had neither Quark nor a Zip drive, they sent me text files instead, which fit nicely onto two 1.4mb floppies. Apparently, Quark is a space gobbler. Something to consider if you have limited disk space. HTH, Craig Brown On 9/3/98 12:20 Ann Norcross wrote (in part): >Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature >of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for >a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? > ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:07:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth SanMiguel Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? QuarkXPress is a layout and design program. The files will always be larger than a word processor because its main function is design. Until QuarkXPress 4 came out it didn't have any indexing capabilities. Quark is a wonderful tool for the layout and design of short pieces. However, it has always been rather lacking when you used for book length projects. QuarkXPress 4 tried to make up for the fact and added a lot of stuff for which you used to have to buy an extension. However, they probably should have thought a bit more before adding the indexing abilities. Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: Craig Brown [mailto:lastword@I1.NET] Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 2:51 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? I do not own QuarkXPress, but recently a client sent me booktext files saved in Quark. They sent it on a Zip disk along with a printed directory. If I remember correctly, the files took up about 17 mb of disk space. When I told them I had neither Quark nor a Zip drive, they sent me text files instead, which fit nicely onto two 1.4mb floppies. Apparently, Quark is a space gobbler. Something to consider if you have limited disk space. HTH, Craig Brown On 9/3/98 12:20 Ann Norcross wrote (in part): >Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature >of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for >a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? > ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:02:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD754.421180F0 Content-Type: text/plain How did the text files you received correspond to the paginated text in Quark? That is, what did you refer to for locators, if you just got text files which presumably would not match the pagination of the Quark files? I assumed that clients would only send Quark files if they wanted index entries to be imbedded. Am I wrong? Just curious. Anne > ---------- > From: Craig Brown > Reply To: Indexer's Discussion Group > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 1998 3:50 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? > > I do not own QuarkXPress, but recently a client sent me booktext files > saved in Quark. They sent it on a Zip disk along with a printed > directory. If I remember correctly, the files took up about 17 mb of > disk space. When I told them I had neither Quark nor a Zip drive, > they > sent me text files instead, which fit nicely onto two 1.4mb floppies. > Apparently, Quark is a space gobbler. Something to consider if you > have > limited disk space. > > HTH, > Craig Brown > > On 9/3/98 12:20 Ann Norcross wrote (in part): > > >Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature > >of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for > >a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? > > > > > ===================================================== > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword > (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 > ===================================================== > ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD754.421180F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    How did the text files you = received correspond to the paginated text in Quark?  That is, what = did you refer to for locators, if you just got text files which = presumably would not match the pagination of the Quark = files?


    I assumed that clients would = only send Quark files if they wanted index entries to be imbedded. Am I = wrong?

    Just curious.
    Anne

      ----------
      From:   Craig Brown
      Reply To: =       Indexer's = Discussion Group
      Sent:   Thursday, September 3, 1998 3:50 PM
      To:     = Multiple recipients of list = INDEX-L
      Subject: =        Re: = QuarkXPress - Do you love it?

      I do not own QuarkXPress, but = recently a client sent me booktext files
      saved in Quark.  They sent it on = a Zip disk along with a printed
      directory.  If I remember = correctly, the files took up about 17 mb of
      disk space.  When I told them I = had neither Quark nor a Zip drive, they
      sent me text files instead, which fit = nicely onto two 1.4mb floppies.
      Apparently, Quark is a space = gobbler.  Something to consider if you have
      limited disk space.

      HTH,
      Craig Brown

      On 9/3/98 12:20 Ann Norcross wrote = (in part):

      >Do any of you create indexes = using the embedded tagging feature
      >of QuarkXPress 4.0?  Do you = like it? Hate it? Have any advice for
      >a person thinking about taking on = a client who requires it??
      >


      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
        The Last = Word        lastword@i1.net
          = Indexing           http://home.i1.net/~lastword
        = (314)352-9094        fax: = (314)481-9254
      =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

    ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD754.421180F0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:06:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? In-Reply-To: <199809031742.NAA12898@camel26.mindspring.com> The one real downfall I saw was that you could only see the entries for one file at a time, so if you are doing a large multi-chapter piece, you won't easily be able to maintain consistency throughout it. You don't see the whole thing until compiling all the files together. I found the interface pretty cumbersome to use, with the level indicators being somewhat counter-intuitive. I couldn't figure out how to get a second level head without defining that first level head as its own entry, so does every first level head have to have a page number after it? At least one client I know will not allow that in their style for indexes. Dogs, 5 breeds, 5 instead of Dogs breeds, 5 And, like every other embedding tool, it doesn't have any macros to allow you to embed dummy tags, work outside the files in a faster tool, and then dump the indexing in. It means you must tie up the live files for the complete indexing session, leaving your client with nothing to work on. I find this so annoying.... few clients I know have that much time available. Tell the client you will need sole access to their files for the entire time, or you will need to trade files back and forth with them until your edit cycle. Jan Wright At 01:20 PM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote: >Do any of you create indexes using the embedded tagging feature >of QuarkXPress 4.0? Do you like it? Hate it? Have any advice for >a person thinking about taking on a client who requires it?? > >Thanks, >Ann >-- >Ann Norcross >Crossover Information Services >(919) 852-0042 >mailto:norcross@ipass.net > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:33:59 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing Subject: Writer's Market Web Site I just wanted to let those interested know that Wrtiter's Digest (publisher of Writer's Market and Writer's Digest magazine) now has a web site with a searchable database (and it's free). However, I did not get great search results and wonder if only some of the publishers listed in the book edition are listed on the website. Anyway, it is a resource that indexers looking for publishers can use. http://www.writersdigest.com Good luck, Dan -- ========================================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ========================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:07:50 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <04022249125691@domain1.bigpond.com> The discussion of 'weird' computer problems here is a little scary. I've had the same experience while teaching - out of eleven supposedly identical classroom PCs, ten would install and run Internet Explorer just fine, first time. The eleventh wouldn't have a bar of it, no matter what we tried. But by assuming that these problems are inexplicable and insoluble and just have to be lived with, we're taking the first steps towards treating computers (hardware _and_ software) like complex, fallible humans. We've acknowledged that we no longer grasp the basic principles that determine what the device will do next. This is just how intelligent machines will be - helpful and friendly but moody and unpredictable. Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:31:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Working for a company with, perhaps 700 computers, all of which are supposed to be at least nominally identical, I can attest to the "ghosts in the machine" problems. Obviously, there is, somewhere, buried in the bowels of the machine, a technical explanation for the problem-- some tiny bit of binary code is set at 0 instead of 1. However, tracking that down can be amazingly difficult. There's one guy in our department who we swear is cursed. He has had three different computers, and of those three, has had the hard drive formated numerous times, had the operating system and all of the software reinstalled more times than he can count, and has even had his network id wiped out and reassigned. Doesn't matter. His computer still crashes about 5 times more often than anyone elses (which is an improvement-- it used to be about 20 times more often! They finally actually switched computer brands, which improved things moderately). Our entire Help Desk staff has gotten into the act-- I think it's become a grudge thing for them!-- and they have moved him to a different office, swapped the computers on their own desks with his, made him unplug other appliances in his office, and even had his office's wiring checked out. No go. We've told him that the next step is a witch doctor and voodoo dolls! He's the worst case I've seen here, but every once in awhile, the Help Desk here runs into a computer that they simply can't make work. All the tests check out and everything says "Go," but the computer just stops. They usually resort to formating the hard drive and starting from scratch, which sometimes works. Jonathan is right that they are just machines, but sometimes they really seem to have a mind of their own! -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne [SMTP:Diagonal@BIGPOND.COM] > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 5:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Weird computer problems > > The discussion of 'weird' computer problems here is a little scary. I've > had > the same experience while teaching - out of eleven supposedly identical > classroom PCs, ten would install and run Internet Explorer just fine, > first > time. The eleventh wouldn't have a bar of it, no matter what we tried. But > by assuming that these problems are inexplicable and insoluble and just > have > to be lived with, we're taking the first steps towards treating computers > (hardware _and_ software) like complex, fallible humans. We've > acknowledged > that we no longer grasp the basic principles that determine what the > device > will do next. This is just how intelligent machines will be - helpful and > friendly but moody and unpredictable. > > Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:41:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? On 9/3/98 15:02 Anne Day wrote (in part): >How did the text files you received correspond to the paginated text in >Quark? That is, what did you refer to for locators, if you just got >text files which presumably would not match the pagination of the Quark >files? > >I assumed that clients would only send Quark files if they wanted index >entries to be imbedded. Am I wrong? In this case, they sent the files as a courtesy. I use them to search for entries I feel I might have missed. A cumbersome process because, you're right, there are no valid locators and one has to search for other markers. Still, it is a useful technique to me especially when I'm in the middle of a large book and realize I should have been picking up references I thought were passing mention. Craig ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://home.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:52:19 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arthur Elser Organization: EXCEL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Jonathan, you wrote: >>But by assuming that these problems are inexplicable and insoluble and just have to be lived with, we're taking the first steps towards treating computers (hardware _and_ software) like complex, fallible humans. We've acknowledged that we no longer grasp the basic principles that determine what the device will do next. << This isn't much different, though, than having 100 identical cars coming from the same assembly line and 99 work well and the 100th is a lemon that no one can seem to get fixed. I don't think it's so much that we fail to "grasp the basic principles" as much as we don't have the measurement tools and software/hardware expertise at hand to isolate the problem and fix it. But, just so you don't have to worry any more, I can give you a rational explanation of how these problems occur in our computers and programs: The basic elements of a program running through a computer are "ones" and "zeros" ( 1s and 0s). Once in a while, one of the 1s gets turned a bit sideways and can't get through the wire from one transistor to the next. That causes things to go awry. The other common occurance is when one or more of the 0s sits around for too long without getting much exercise. It gains weight, much as we do without exercise, and when its turn comes to go through the wire, it will no longer fit. :-) Seriously though, if you think of how many sets of instructions flow through the bus on a new 450 MHz cpu in one minute, the wonder is not that things sometimes don't work as advertised, but that they work so well so much of the time. I think we get spoiled. To bring up a subject that caused a ruckus here not too long ago, remember how tough it was to get a car started when "the man of the family" had to crank it by hand? Today, we get flustered if our cars don't start on the first turn of the key. But we could fix those old clunkers by adjusting the spark, adjusting the mixture, sandpapering the electrodes in the plugs and the points, and setting the point gap with a match book cover. Easy maintenance, but poor performance. You pays your money and takes your chances. ;-))) art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:04:55 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arthur Elser Organization: EXCEL PROFESSIONAL SERVICES Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Sharon, you wrote: >>There's one guy in our department who we swear is cursed. He has had three different computers, and of those three, has had the hard drive formated numerous times, had the operating system and all of the software reinstalled more times than he can count, and has even had his network id wiped out and reassigned. Doesn't matter. His computer still crashes about 5 times more often than anyone elses (which is an improvement-- it used to be about 20 times more often!<< My daughter has that effect on cars. I've driven my car for 14 years and have had virtually no problems with it. She drove it to and from work for two weeks while her car was in the shop getting fixed. The windshield wiper motor quit and the fuzz buster stopped giving audio warnings--first problem with either system. Oh yeah, her car, the one that was in the shop while she drove mine, is the one my wife and I drove as the family car for 14 years. We had next to no problems. Now that she's driving it, it spends more time in the shop than on the road. It has developed leaks it never had before, electrical problems heretofore unseen, and engine behavior that is startling. She's not a teenager with her first car. She's 28, married, and the mother of the sweetest grandson anyone ever had--now if that doesn't start a flame war, nothing will. Come on grandparents. I'm ready for you. I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. art ================================================================== Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com Information Developer, U S WEST There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard Bach =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:10:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: Weird computer problems This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD74C.FCA3EE10 Content-Type: text/plain Thank you, Arthur. This was the first explanation that made absolute sense to me :-) Toni > But, just so you don't have to worry any more, I can give you a > rational > explanation of how these problems occur in our computers and programs: > > The basic elements of a program running through a computer are "ones" > and "zeros" ( 1s and 0s). Once in a while, one of the 1s gets turned a > bit sideways and can't get through the wire from one transistor to the > next. That causes things to go awry. > > The other common occurance is when one or more of the 0s sits around > for > too long without getting much exercise. It gains weight, much as we do > without exercise, and when its turn comes to go through the wire, it > will no longer fit. :-) > ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD74C.FCA3EE10 Content-Type: text/html

    Thank you, Arthur. This was the first explanation that made absolute sense to me :-)

    Toni

      <snip>
      But, just so you don't have to worry any more, I can give you a rational
      explanation of how these problems occur in our computers and programs:

      The basic elements of a program running through a computer are "ones"
      and "zeros" ( 1s and 0s). Once in a while, one of the 1s gets turned a
      bit sideways and can't get through the wire from one transistor to the
      next. That causes things to go awry.

      The other common occurance is when one or more of the 0s sits around for
      too long without getting much exercise. It gains weight, much as we do
      without exercise, and when its turn comes to go through the wire, it
      will no longer fit. :-)

      <snip>

    ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD74C.FCA3EE10-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:07:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809032200.SAA20681@camel10.mindspring.com> "A computer and a cat are somewhat alike -- they both purr, and like to be stroked, and spend a lot of the day motionless. They also have secrets they don't necessarily share." -- John Updike, in _The New Yorker_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:09:08 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Patsy Rae Dawson Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD755.4DFC1500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Two true stories about cat hair causing computer problems: After my husband put a lot of miles on a laptop computer, we boxed it = up and shipped it to our daughter to use at college. When she got it, it = kept crashing on her and was generally annoying. In frustration, she = opened it up and looked inside. It was full of white cat hair. Seems we = had a cat who loved to curl up in the carrying case when my husband was = using the laptop. Our daughter cleaned all the cat hair out and it = worked just fine. We have a friend who builds computers. One of his customers had a cat = who liked to sleep on top of his monitor. One day while the customer was = working at his computer, all of a sudden the cat received a charge of = electricity and rolled over onto the floor dead. When the man checked = out his computer, he found that a thick layer of cat hair had built up = in the air holes to the point that it finally made a connection between = some electrical part and the cat. The man cleaned out all the cat hair = and fired his computer back up. His monitor worked just fine. We no = longer let our cat sleep on top of the monitor. Patsy Dawson ---------- From: Jan C. Wright[SMTP:jancw@MINDSPRING.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 3:07 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Weird computer problems "A computer and a cat are somewhat alike -- they both purr, and like to = be stroked, and spend a lot of the day motionless. They also have secrets = they don't necessarily share." -- John Updike, in _The New Yorker_ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD755.4DFC1500 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEXAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAVAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAWgAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNj dXNzaW9uIEdyb3VwAFNNVFAASU5ERVgtTEBCSU5HVk1CLkNDLkJJTkdIQU1UT04uRURVAAAAHgAC MAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACIAAABJTkRFWC1MQEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRP Ti5FRFUAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAdAAAAJ0luZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9u IEdyb3VwJwAAAAACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOklOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9O LkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAALvPgEEgAEAJQAAAFJFOiBXZWly ZCBjb21wdXRlciBjYXQgaGFpciBwcm9ibGVtcwAbDQEFgAMADgAAAM4HCQADABAACQAIAAQABgEB IIADAA4AAADOBwkAAwAPADQACQAEADEBAQmAAQAhAAAAMDg2NEFGQTU2OTQyRDIxMUJEQUI0NDQ1 NTM1NDAwMDAA5wYBA5AGALAGAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQAAfu7aj9e9AR4AcAABAAAAJQAAAFJFOiBXZWlyZCBjb21wdXRlciBjYXQgaGFp ciBwcm9ibGVtcwAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvdeP2uWlr2QLQmkR0r2rREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAHQAAAHBhdHN5LmRhd3NvbkBmb3hpbnRlcm5ldC5uZXQAAAAA AwAGEKVPOTkDAAcQuwQAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAFRXT1RSVUVTVE9SSUVTQUJPVVRDQVRIQUlSQ0FV U0lOR0NPTVBVVEVSUFJPQkxFTVM6QUZURVJNWUhVU0JBTkRQVVRBTE9UT0ZNSUxFU09OQUxBUFRP UENPTVBVVEVSLFdFQk8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAAALBQAABwUAAKwIAABMWkZ1gky5vv8ACgEPAhUCpAPk BesCgwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMyA8YHEwKDcjMTD2Y0A0YHbQKAfRcKgAjPCdk7F88y NTUPAoAKgQ2xC2BuZzEw3jMUIAsKEvIMAWMAQBXQIHdvIHRyClAgc350BbAIkAQgAaAIYAVAY7Zh BUARwGkFwB4gdQCQNxrQHhADcHAd8ASQIHDDA2ACYGVtczoKhgGRZxNwAYAfkW15HlAe0GLNAHBk H7Ad8WEgF2AFQHxvZiFgAxAHkQIgIlJhiQUwb3AfJywgdx0gpQbgeAmAIGkFQHUj8Okh4nNoBSBw JRQdUCKwyQhwIGQewGdoH4ImkR8e0B0gHjEXQSAAZ2UuuCBXaAnwJdEdIGcikWclQCSQJUFrZQUx BQBhvyXhHwEjUSjQBcAh4ncqcG8pQAnwBJAHQGwhgABwbuxveR7xKKBJA6ADUB7Q+xzwHjBpAiAk kCkSI+Ar4fslKhdgbyoAJSEAgQ2wLPGzBUArkmZ1KFAisncl8P8fgB4XKKAGYCARJKIRwCIA3yJg HiIxQBzQF2B2JREmkf5jCHADICVxC4Ac4CkhHiD8cnIssh4RJ9ExQCjhIXlfK5Ie1DTyI6QooE8m 2mP/IAAAcCURLCE05R5FHeIh4uslQRzAci+Sai1hLTALgPsokCBaVzKyM9AiUQNQCJDTK2IzgWJ1 AxBkBCAfNv5zOFEr8CKyJfA+8S1hA3DbP3EyzmkvkiaRcyAAKhD/I0Ij0kAFBGADAB1RP6QnAP8h gDFBIAA05ECFK4M7gh7yPx4yQEIkJznCIsEiYHN1HmQNsDTWBUAX0GNlaV8z0jMREcEogCKyZSAA Y/kc8GljJUAsUiIAA2AoUf8iADPBOrECMBzRKSEaoC9w+ybhOWBkKKU08gOCEbAFkP8vkh3iRvxM wghgIfE08B4x1yJgNPBLAGsjkXlMMiLQ/x4nMtI+oiVTNMVSYwbwB5H5TIVwbwuAJnFQwiVBPEH/ LCMAwA2wMwICICvwStAtwf8k0BIAJLAo4kCxSpcHQB+w7wrAOvQ6BSigVE4WOVU60/853iHiPEAX 0UbrJNAA0FFg+yVwKKBIQ5g7fyihHSAskP8icRrQH5EgACKhJtEeIkKOr04DQ9UKhQqFUB4wcyGA 6ERhd1fwbmOcCvRB8AgxODAC0WktMTSeNA3wDNBnEwtZMTYKoOcDYB+AStAgLWk3Codn6+sMMGi2 RgNhOmo+aLYgwzpKA5FDKKEFECcxW1MgTVRQOmoAcGN3AEBNSU5EU1BSgW+QRy5DT01dad9/au0G YAIwbB9tK1oQCHBz/0SRJJAGYAUwIBBXcAXAGwABJJAxOTk4IDM6NDA3ZGBNcH9q7VRv+3K/bStN MNAtsAtQHSBJUX8FID4RZJAiskHwPBFvkUUYWC1Mdt9xjnViaudKwXj/bStSZX9wPVAegM8iAB8/ ZT9mQzM2Z7cUIvMMAWi2IkGB6CHiMxQKwP8dIUCxMUBQ0kHyaSE04iGA/wbgNPAiETVQR7EvMohS JpHfV3AKhS1xL4KJpHMuYTLy/yKFNPJEkgRgLbIjET+RWhH9LFFsV/A9dBHwBQASAFRh64jRCoVk AiAnBUBW8Y3BnwrAAxAhgCXgh2EuIoiCiEpvaAOgVXBkQgFbKbEDoF9aEgfCWTuScn5fgw+EHhwF aLYKhRbxAAGXsAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMCCLeHuN170BQAAIMCCLeHuN170BHgA9AAEA AAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAACwW ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD755.4DFC1500-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:20:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: RTF files Michael, it's been my impression that Word97 makes a hash of EVERYTHING, and have so far avoided even having it on my machine. In fact I only "updated" to Windows 95 last week ONLY in order to play a new game which would not run on Windows NT 4.0. But maybe my dislike of Gates and his company is showing. I've always found it strange that Microsoft, with its huge design staff, still produces lousy, unworkable, non-user-friendly software. Cheers anyway, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:59:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems Patsy, that poor cat got hit by the equivalent of a lightning strike, around 12-25 thousand volts. Regarding computers and humans, apparently I also am cursed. While AUTOMOBILES usually respond well to my care and attention, many computers can sense that I am a computer technician approaching and proceed to demonstrate wonky behaviour. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:26:45 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: RTF files I certainly hope the problem with the RTF files is caused by Word97. I have attached RTF files to email a number of times and no problems have arisen. My ancient version of Works reads them fine. With regard to Microsoft staff, after BOB (remember BOB?), they now produce just what I expect them to produce. But, I confess, I gave them one last chance with Publisher98. Such brilliant folk there. They reduced the rather helpful user manual of Publisher97 by 2/3 and practically drained it of information. Just goes to show that you can't solve problems by throwing money at them. Nick K. Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > > Michael, it's been my impression that Word97 makes a hash of EVERYTHING, > and have so far avoided even having it on my machine. In fact I only > "updated" to Windows 95 last week ONLY in order to play a new game which > would not run on Windows NT 4.0. > > But maybe my dislike of Gates and his company is showing. I've always > found it strange that Microsoft, with its huge design staff, still > produces lousy, unworkable, non-user-friendly software. > > Cheers anyway, > Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:08:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: It's a start . . . >From the August 1998 issue of Technical Communication (p. 396), a review of _Technical Writing Style_ by Dan Jones, reviewed by Rebecca Edgerton: ...And this coda is quite substantial, including a very informative glossary, a bibliography, and -- fanfare here on behalf of all confirmed indexophiles -- a well-constructed index. After 2 months of reading and re-reading this book, I cannot think of a single entry that the indexer hasn't anticipated. High praise indeed! Had to share this with you all: my first review, my first index. Karen Lane, who also wrote the "very informative glossary" klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: It's a start . . . WOW! Bravo, bravissima! Carry on regardless... Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:20:52 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sally Morris Subject: Metadata working group This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BDD7E5.5036E760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Metadata Working Group - an invitation For the past months, an international (mainly US/UK) group has been = working on the question of what metadata (=91information about = information=92) is required in the digital environment to support unique = identifiers, such as the Digital Object Identifier (DOI), and to make = possible the electronic identification, retrieval and trading of = intellectual property. Our work has focused on two key areas: describing the intellectual = property (the =91object=92) itself, and describing the various different = rights which users may have or may wish to acquire, and the terms and = conditions under which these rights are available. Although the DOI = itself originated within the world of publishing, the issues raised by = identifiers and their supporting metadata are common to all media, and = we maintain close links with other industries, particularly music (which = is well advanced in this area). We have developed an underlying model = for metadata which we are now trying to refine. We are sponsored by EDItEUR, the UK based organisation that has been = active in creating Edifact EDI messages for the publishing industry = world-wide. EDItEUR is currently engaged in a Title Information Project = that, when completed, will provide a rich =91superset=92 of descriptive = metadata. We have also established relations with the Dublin Core = community and with the BIBLINK project, both of which have developed = specific subsets of descriptive metadata. We plan to continue this = outreach to other groups, both inside and outside the publishing world, = working with them to identify the most economical subsets for specific = purposes. We will also maintain close ties with the National Information = Standards Organization (NISO) as it standardises various metadata = schemes.=20 On the rights metadata side, we are developing a detailed classification = of rights in the publishing context and are taking an active part in an = international, European Union-funded research project to compare = descriptive and rights metadata structures from different industries and = to develop a common basis for interoperability (INDECS). We are also = commencing a real-world pilot, with a number of technology companies, to = test the practicalities of our rights classification. In addition, we = are actively supporting work on the identification and classification of = users. The underlying aim which runs through all these activities is to = ensure that the complete continuum of ways in which users or = organisations with to interact with others=92 intellectual property - = from finding it to using it - can be carried out seamlessly, = conveniently and economically in the digital environment. To achieve = this requires the development and adoption of common standards, so that = computer systems can be completely interoperable.=20 You can find papers describing our work at http://bic.org.uk/rights, = including most importantly the minutes and papers of an enormously = valuable workshop of the Metadata Working Group, held in New York on 18 = and 19 June. One of the key conclusions of this workshop was that we = needed more practical input from all the players in the information = chain, particularly publishers and intermediaries (secondary publishers = and librarians). We would therefore like to extend a warm invitation to your members to = participate in our work. Discussions are carried on mostly via an e-mail = listserv sponsored by the International DOI Foundation, and to which you = can sign up via the DOI website (the June workshop was in fact the first = face-to-face meeting of the whole group); in future we also plan an = occasional newsletter. Smaller teams are delegated to work on specific = projects. We should be very pleased to welcome more representatives of the = =91information value chain=92 to our group. Please contact either of us = if you are interested. Albert Simmons and Sally Morris (joint Chairs of the Metadata Working = Group) ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BDD7E5.5036E760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    The Metadata Working Group - an invitation

    For the past months, an international (mainly US/UK) group has been = working=20 on the question of what metadata (‘information about = information’)=20 is required in the digital environment to support unique identifiers, = such as=20 the Digital Object Identifier (DOI), and to make possible the electronic = identification, retrieval and trading of intellectual property.

    Our work has focused on two key areas: describing the intellectual = property=20 (the ‘object’) itself, and describing the various different = rights=20 which users may have or may wish to acquire, and the terms and = conditions under=20 which these rights are available. Although the DOI itself originated = within the=20 world of publishing, the issues raised by identifiers and their = supporting=20 metadata are common to all media, and we maintain close links with other = industries, particularly music (which is well advanced in this area). We = have=20 developed an underlying model for metadata which we are now trying to=20 refine.

    We are sponsored by EDItEUR, the UK based organisation that has been = active=20 in creating Edifact EDI messages for the publishing industry world-wide. = EDItEUR=20 is currently engaged in a Title Information Project that, when = completed, will=20 provide a rich ‘superset’ of descriptive metadata. We have = also=20 established relations with the Dublin Core community and with the = BIBLINK=20 project, both of which have developed specific subsets of descriptive = metadata.=20 We plan to continue this outreach to other groups, both inside and = outside the=20 publishing world, working with them to identify the most economical = subsets for=20 specific purposes. We will also maintain close ties with the National=20 Information Standards Organization (NISO) as it standardises various = metadata=20 schemes.

    On the rights metadata side, we are developing a detailed = classification of=20 rights in the publishing context and are taking an active part in an=20 international, European Union-funded research project to compare = descriptive and=20 rights metadata structures from different industries and to develop a = common=20 basis for interoperability (INDECS). We are also commencing a real-world = pilot,=20 with a number of technology companies, to test the practicalities of our = rights=20 classification. In addition, we are actively supporting work on the=20 identification and classification of users. The underlying aim which = runs=20 through all these activities is to ensure that the complete continuum of = ways in=20 which users or organisations with to interact with others’ = intellectual=20 property - from finding it to using it - can be carried out seamlessly,=20 conveniently and economically in the digital environment. To achieve = this=20 requires the development and adoption of common standards, so that = computer=20 systems can be completely interoperable.

    You can find papers describing our work at http://bic.org.uk/rights,=20 including most importantly the minutes and papers of an enormously = valuable=20 workshop of the Metadata Working Group, held in New York on 18 and 19 = June. One=20 of the key conclusions of this workshop was that we needed more = practical input=20 from all the players in the information chain, particularly publishers = and=20 intermediaries (secondary publishers and librarians).

    We would therefore like to extend a warm invitation to your members = to=20 participate in our work. Discussions are carried on mostly via an e-mail = listserv sponsored by the International DOI Foundation, and to which you = can=20 sign up via the DOI website (the June workshop was in fact the first=20 face-to-face meeting of the whole group); in future we also plan an = occasional=20 newsletter. Smaller teams are delegated to work on specific = projects.

    We should be very pleased to welcome more representatives of the=20 ‘information value chain’ to our group. Please contact = either of us=20 if you are interested.

     

    Albert Simmons and Sally Morris (joint Chairs of the Metadata Working = Group)

    ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BDD7E5.5036E760-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:46:20 -0400 Reply-To: ADay@professionaljeweler.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Whenever I start to get that uneasy feeling that computers might someday take over control of the world from us humans, I think about all these "weird computer problems" and how much more user-friendly the "old fashioned ways" can be compared to computers, and I feel better! Hopefully the frustration we feel toward our machines will slow their rise to power. (Something about the chirping birds and morning sunshine outside my window encourages such thoughts!) It's interesting, as Jonathan notes, that we do treat our computers like living organisms with moods and temper tantrums. Except, of course, that we can "shut down" the computer at the end of the day and not hear from it again until we're ready to! (A huge difference between computers and our pets, kids, co-workers, etc.) Anne Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne wrote: > > The discussion of 'weird' computer problems here is a little scary. I've had > the same experience while teaching - out of eleven supposedly identical > classroom PCs, ten would install and run Internet Explorer just fine, first > time. The eleventh wouldn't have a bar of it, no matter what we tried. But > by assuming that these problems are inexplicable and insoluble and just have > to be lived with, we're taking the first steps towards treating computers > (hardware _and_ software) like complex, fallible humans. We've acknowledged > that we no longer grasp the basic principles that determine what the device > will do next. This is just how intelligent machines will be - helpful and > friendly but moody and unpredictable. > > Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:31:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Employment opportunity (fwd) >Return-Path: >From: "Gina Amoroso /Personnel 4th Floor" >Organization: The H.W.Wilson Company >To: ASI@well.com >Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:43:46 EST >Subject: cataloging/indexing vacancies >Reply-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >X-Confirm-Reading-To: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >X-pmrqc: 1 >Return-receipt-to: gamoroso@hwwilson.com >Priority: normal > >Please post job openings > >The H.W. Wilson Company founded in 1898, is a leading provider of >bibliographic references and other library resources in print and >electronic formats. The Company publishes indexes, abstracts, and >full-text databases on CD-ROM , magnetic tape, online, over the World >Wide Web and through information partners. > >Indexer- Applied Science & Technology Index > >Requirements: B.S. in Electrical Engineering > >Indexer- Art Index > >Requirements: Art History degree. Foreign language skills helpful- >German, Spanish or Italian. > >Cataloger - Names > >Requirements: Good understanding of AACR2 revised cataloging rules. >MLS required. > >Indexer- Readers' Guide to Periodical Literature > >Requirements: General subject background B.A. or B.S. in Liberal Arts. > MLS Required. > >Cataloger- Standard Catalogs > >Requirements: experience in library collection development desirable. >Computer literacy desirable. Knowledge of/or interest in contemporary >drama helpful. MLS required. > > >The H.W. Wilson Company provides its staff with a comprehensive array >of benefits, including competitive salaries, four weeks paid vacation, >fully paid family health insurance coverage, group life insurance >coverage, a pension plan with matching contributions. Working hours >are 8:30 am - 4:15 pm. > >Located just blocks away from New York's Yankee Stadium, and a stone >throw away form the Major Deegan Expressway (major thoroughfare with >links to the boroughs and suburbs), H.W. Wilson headquarters are >easily accessible by car (with free parking for employees) and via >public transportation (with free shuttle bus service form IND and BMT >subway trains). > >H.W. Wilson headquarters also provides a convenient company cafeteria, >and a deck for lunching outdoors during summer months. Breakfast, >lunch, and snack services are available. > >All positions listed above are full time positions. > >To find out more information about H.W. Wilson Company visit our >website at http://www.hwwilson.com. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:03:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: It's a start . . . Many congratulations!! :-) -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 > -----Original Message----- > From: Karen Lane [SMTP:klane@DIGITAL.NET] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 1998 12:08 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: It's a start . . . > > From the August 1998 issue of Technical Communication (p. 396), > a review of _Technical Writing Style_ by Dan Jones, reviewed by > Rebecca Edgerton: > > ...And this coda is quite substantial, including a very > informative glossary, a bibliography, and -- fanfare here > on behalf of all confirmed indexophiles -- a well-constructed > index. After 2 months of reading and re-reading this book, > I cannot think of a single entry that the indexer hasn't > anticipated. High praise indeed! > > Had to share this with you all: my first review, my first index. > > > Karen Lane, who also wrote the "very informative glossary" > klane@digital.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:23:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: It's a start . . . Karen, Thanks for sharing! When the work gets tedious it really helps to know some readers appreciate a quality job. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:24:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: RTF files Dave wrote: Michael, it's been my impression that Word97 makes a hash of EVERYTHING, and have so far avoided even having it on my machine. In fact I only "updated" to Windows 95 last week ONLY in order to play a new game which would not run on Windows NT 4.0. But maybe my dislike of Gates and his company is showing. I've always found it strange that Microsoft, with its huge design staff, still produces lousy, unworkable, non-user-friendly software. Cheers anyway, Dave T. Don't you think that that is at least in part deliberate? The only way to make sure that everything really works together is to have an all-Microsoft platform. I think the fact that one of Windows 98's more charming features is the fact that when you install it, it automatically disables any rival software (by rewriting the shared .DLL files in such a way that nothing but Microsoft products can use them) only supports my position. And this is not just 'Net gossip-- there were reports of this "feature" on both CNN and in the Washington Post. -- Sharon W. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Weird computer problems Maybe she should stop driving 14 year old cars! ;-) Although my personal experience with that was that I learned more than I ever wanted to know about automotive repair and maintenance (I drove a '77 Olds Cutlass up until three years ago). It is kind of embarrassing when the tow truck drivers know you by name and know where you live, though... :-) -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Elser [SMTP:aelser@USWEST.COM] > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 6:05 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Weird computer problems > > Sharon, you wrote: > > >>There's one guy in our department who we swear is cursed. He has had > three > different computers, and of those three, has had the hard drive formated > > numerous times, had the operating system and all of the software > reinstalled > more times than he can count, and has even had his network id wiped out > and > reassigned. Doesn't matter. His computer still crashes about 5 times > more > often than anyone elses (which is an improvement-- it used to be about > 20 > times more often!<< > > My daughter has that effect on cars. I've driven my car for 14 years and > have had virtually no problems with it. She drove it to and from work > for two weeks while her car was in the shop getting fixed. The > windshield wiper motor quit and the fuzz buster stopped giving audio > warnings--first problem with either system. > > Oh yeah, her car, the one that was in the shop while she drove mine, is > the one my wife and I drove as the family car for 14 years. We had next > to no problems. Now that she's driving it, it spends more time in the > shop than on the road. It has developed leaks it never had before, > electrical problems heretofore unseen, and engine behavior that is > startling. She's not a teenager with her first car. She's 28, married, > and the mother of the sweetest grandson anyone ever had--now if that > doesn't start a flame war, nothing will. Come on grandparents. I'm ready > for you. > > I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. > Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some > electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. > > art > ================================================================== > Art Elser (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com > Information Developer, U S WEST > There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. > > You seek problems because you need their gifts. Illusions, Richard > Bach > =================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:47:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: It's a start . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980904000804.00853910@digital.net> This is just fabulous!!!! Thanks for sharing it with us. Congratulations! Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:44:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Weird computer problems > I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. > Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some > electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. That may not be entirely far-fetched. My uncle has a similar problem with watches. Any watch he wears -- whether a wrist watch or a pocket watch -- tends to gain and lose time substantially and unpredictably. And for years, the only kind of watch I could wear was digital; when I wore a watch with hands, the hands froze within a few weeks. The watch would tick, but the hands wouldn't move. This happened to three separate watches. Two such watches, when sent back to Timex for repair, were returned with the information that there was nothing wrong with the watch. In order to eliminate the obvious, I had my mother wind my watch for a while, instead of doing it myself -- on the chance that I was overwinding. It made no difference. Then my mother wore my watch for a week. Within a few days, it worked as normal. I put it on -- it "froze" within 24 hours. At that point, I gave up and switched to digital. It was years before I dared to try a "hands" watch again. Oddly enough, when I did, I had no problem with it. The only differences between the earlier experiences and now are that I'm in my 30's instead of adolescence, and the watches I'm wearing are battery-driven, not the earlier wind/self-wind type. I'd suspect it was a problem with over- or under-winding, except we basically eliminated that explanation at the time. So I'm left with my uncle's theory that body's electromagnetic field can disrupt something in the watch -- though I have no idea how. (Now the scientists on the list will explain why my uncle's theory is scientifically impossible . If you can come up with a better explanation, I'm all ears!) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:49:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Weird computer problems I've heard of this happening to pregnant women fairly commonly. Some can't wear watches while they're pregnant, and some can't wear watches for several years afterwards. Strange, but true. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: John and Kara Pekar [SMTP:jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:44 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Weird computer problems > > > I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. > > Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some > > electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. > > That may not be entirely far-fetched. My uncle has a similar problem with > watches. Any watch he wears -- whether a wrist watch or a pocket watch -- > tends to gain and lose time substantially and unpredictably. And for > years, the only kind of watch I could wear was digital; when I wore a > watch > with hands, the hands froze within a few weeks. The watch would tick, but > the hands wouldn't move. This happened to three separate watches. Two > such watches, when sent back to Timex for repair, were returned with the > information that there was nothing wrong with the watch. > > In order to eliminate the obvious, I had my mother wind my watch for a > while, instead of doing it myself -- on the chance that I was overwinding. > It made no difference. Then my mother wore my watch for a week. Within a > few days, it worked as normal. I put it on -- it "froze" within 24 hours. > At that point, I gave up and switched to digital. > > It was years before I dared to try a "hands" watch again. Oddly enough, > when I did, I had no problem with it. The only differences between the > earlier experiences and now are that I'm in my 30's instead of > adolescence, > and the watches I'm wearing are battery-driven, not the earlier > wind/self-wind type. I'd suspect it was a problem with over- or > under-winding, except we basically eliminated that explanation at the > time. > So I'm left with my uncle's theory that body's electromagnetic field can > disrupt something in the watch -- though I have no idea how. (Now the > scientists on the list will explain why my uncle's theory is > scientifically > impossible . If you can come up with a better explanation, I'm all > ears!) > > Kara Pekar > jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:24:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Metzger, Lucinda" Subject: Re: Weird computer problems My hubby doesn't have any problems with watches, but he does seem to build up a lot of static electricity. When he gets out of a car and touches the door to close it, he gets zapped every time. (In fact, on a recent weekend trip, he reached out to hand his change to the tollbooth operator and zapped the guy so badly that I saw the flash in broad daylight, and the guy felt it up to his elbow!) When he pushes a shopping cart through a store, he gets zapped every time he touches something. What's really scary is that my hubby does electrical work for a living. Needless to say he's veeeeerrrrrry careful to use his insulated gloves at all times. -----Original Message----- From: John and Kara Pekar [mailto:jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET] Sent: Friday, September 04, 1998 9:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Weird computer problems > I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. > Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some > electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. That may not be entirely far-fetched. My uncle has a similar problem with watches. Any watch he wears -- whether a wrist watch or a pocket watch -- tends to gain and lose time substantially and unpredictably. And for years, the only kind of watch I could wear was digital; when I wore a watch with hands, the hands froze within a few weeks. The watch would tick, but the hands wouldn't move. This happened to three separate watches. Two such watches, when sent back to Timex for repair, were returned with the information that there was nothing wrong with the watch. In order to eliminate the obvious, I had my mother wind my watch for a while, instead of doing it myself -- on the chance that I was overwinding. It made no difference. Then my mother wore my watch for a week. Within a few days, it worked as normal. I put it on -- it "froze" within 24 hours. At that point, I gave up and switched to digital. It was years before I dared to try a "hands" watch again. Oddly enough, when I did, I had no problem with it. The only differences between the earlier experiences and now are that I'm in my 30's instead of adolescence, and the watches I'm wearing are battery-driven, not the earlier wind/self-wind type. I'd suspect it was a problem with over- or under-winding, except we basically eliminated that explanation at the time. So I'm left with my uncle's theory that body's electromagnetic field can disrupt something in the watch -- though I have no idea how. (Now the scientists on the list will explain why my uncle's theory is scientifically impossible . If you can come up with a better explanation, I'm all ears!) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 Reply-To: indexer@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sherry L. Smith" Subject: nuts and bolts Has anyone used MacAfee's Nuts and Bolts or Wipe-Out utility programs? Comments? Thanks. Sherry Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 63505 Bridle Lane Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 indexer@ibm.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:05:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Weird computer problems I had to laugh (in sympathy) over Sharon's posting. As a solver of computer problems for a wide variety of businesses and individuals for about 17 years, I thought I'd seen just about everything and I honestly thought I could solve just about any crisis presented. Then about 2 years ago a longstanding client hired a new salesperson. Margaret is a lovely human being and she is the company's number one income producer -- a very good thing because she has cost them a fortune in computer related expenses. I have actually sat and watched her work. She doesn't do anything out of line but within moments of touching the keyboard or mouse, something will go wrong with the computer. It doesn't matter that the computer has not had a single problem since it was installed 18 months earlier. It doesn't matter that all she was doing was closing the word processor. It doesn't matter that 30 seconds earlier someone else did exactly the same operation in exactly the same sequence and all was well. Most of all, it doesn't matter which computer Margaret is using -- new, old, on the network or off. If Margaret touches a computer it (or the network of which it is part) will fail in some fiendishly diabolic manner, causing misery for everyone else. After a few such sessions, the owner assigned a clerk exclusively to Margaret. When Margaret is on the premises, his sole job is to be her fingers and hands; she must stay at least three feet from the computer desks. Since this arrangement began the only emergency there has been was the first day Robert was home with the flu -- a temp was hired for the rest of the week. Lest some may think I am making some of this up, come to San Francisco and I'll be glad to take you to meet Margaret -- just don't bring your laptop along. My only explanation is that Margaret's dislike of computers results in some type of energy or magnetic field -- it isn't logical but I've fixed too many problems at the store to be a doubter. On the otherhand, "supposedly identical" is a phrase which speaks volumes. It is astounding how much impact a "minor" revision during the assembly process. Further, I am constantly amazed at how impact "plug and pray" (under Win95/98) has on the installation of software. Jonathan said ten systems accepted Internet Explorer without a problem -- the eleventh seems to have developed an antipathy of immense proportions. There is no easy answer in such a situation; generally I find that the solution lies in some small change in the sequence of options or events but sometimes there is a "hardware" solution -- on a recent occasion I faced a similar problem and found that rotating the memory SIMMs provided the solution. Auras I can accept -- human qualities are a little harder to attribute to computers. Gale Rhoades, in the midst of another "I hate computers" phase In a message dated 9/3/98 3:14:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM writes: << There's one guy in our department who we swear is cursed. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:35:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Adobe Acrobat & Conference Journals This message came to me from another mailing list (UMC is United Methodist Church). My understanding is that Arlene wants to keep the index & table of contents as separate PDF files but have active links in them to the other files which make of the document. Can anyone help? >X-Sender: awilcock@mail.ptdprolog.net >Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:44:26 -0400 >To: "Persons trying to get the UMC connected electronically" >I am in the middle of putting our Conference Journal on-line in Acrobat >(pdf) format. The pdf files work fine BUT -- I cannot get the links in the >"Index" and "Table of Contents" to work. They work on my computer but not >on the Web. So for the moment I have an HTML Table of Contents but that >only loads the whole document (section) and shows the first page. I can't >get HTML to jump to the correct page. > >Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Has anyone put a Conference Journal >on-line? > >Journal URL -- http://www.epaumc.org/journal/ >Problem Table of Contents -- http://www.epaumc.org/journal/tblcont2.pdf > >Thanks for any help you can give me! >Arlene > >---------------------------------------------------------- >Arlene Y. Wilcock >mailto:awilcock@alpha-omegacomp.com > >http://www.alpha-omegacomp.com/ (Alpha-Omega Computer Services) >http://www.alpha-omegacomp.com/arlene/ (my personal page) >http://www.alpha-omegacomp.com/stpaulsth/ (my church's page) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:23:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Organizing (was digest?) In-Reply-To: <199809031145.EAA17252@mail-gw6.pacbell.net> At 07:44 AM 9/3/98 EDT, Bonnie wrote: >One nice thing about the military: we get plenty of chances to move and >therefore plenty of chances to get rid of stuff. (Then again, there's also the >junk we cart from post to post, 'cause hey those curtains have to fit SOME >window at SOME point.) > >The other nice thing (actually it's the flip-side of a not-so-nice thing) is >that when my husband is away, I get quite a lot of organizing done--which is >odd since he is by far the more organized of the two of us! He went to Germany >for 2 weeks once, and when he got home there wasn't a stick of furniture that >hadn't been moved! Hi Bonnie, Can I chime in here from the viewpoint of an ex-military member? Please don't take this as a criticism, because I do understand (I think) why military spouses do this. Whenever I returned home from a longish cruise, I found that hubby inevitably rearranged the furniture. It can be very disconcerting to walk into the house, after you imagined it being a certain way in your yearnings for home, and find it looks totally different. ;-D In fact, the Navy even recommended that spouses not do that. During a short two-week deployment like your hubby had, it probably doesn't matter, but you won't believe the impact it has if the deployment is a few months. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:06:47 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? In-Reply-To: <199809032009.NAA24847@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> At 01:06 PM 9/3/98 -0700, Jan wrote: >Tell the client you will need sole access to their files for the entire >time, or you will need to trade files back and forth with them until your >edit cycle. Hi Ann, As always, I agree with everything Jan says in her awesome posts on embedded indexing. :-) Jan is right about what you need to tell your client. However, there is a nightmare waiting to happen if you trades files back and forth with them. I know, having been there. ;-D Without having all of the files at any given time, it becomes impossible to generate the interim versions of the entire index. And, without doing that, a big drift factor can set into the index that will make it a true nightmare to edit. If you can't avoid doing that, I strongly recommend saving copies of each file that you've indexed, so that you can generate interim indexes. Even so, you won't be able to actually edit what you've already indexed until you get all of the files back as you'll have to make your edits in those files, not in the copies you kept. (Insist on getting the files back for editing!!!! Otherwise you'll have to send the client a huge document describing the edits that THEY'll have to make. A big pain in the verrrry low back.) Another pitfall of trading files with the client is that your administrative overhead on the project skyrockets enormously. When I was doing a project like this, I was sending out Fedexes DAILY because they'd send me a chapter or two each day and I'd have to send out what I indexed the previous day (or even what I indexed the same day). So, every day, I was spending time generating cover letters, copying files, filling out air bills, driving to the Fedex box, etc. Fortunately, my client was very understanding and compensated me generously for the overhead. So, you need to make arrangements with your client about this upfront. Believe me, the one project that I did like this (wandering into it out of sheer ignorance ;-D) was such a nightmare for me and the client that I even wrote a KeyWords article about it. ;-D (Fortunately, being that it was such a nightmare on the client's end, too, they readily agreed to not do that again.) HTH, Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:10:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809032159.OAA16976@mail-gw3.pacbell.net> At 04:04 PM 9/3/98 -0600, Art wrote: > >I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. >Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some >electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. > I seem to remember that someone did a study on this, with the result that some people do seem to have a negative effect on electronic equipment. After all, some folks have a biomagnetic field that stops analog watches. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:26:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: RTF files In-Reply-To: <199809040025.RAA10227@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> At 08:20 PM 9/3/98 -0400, Dave wrote: >Michael, it's been my impression that Word97 makes a hash of EVERYTHING, >and have so far avoided even having it on my machine. In fact I only >"updated" to Windows 95 last week ONLY in order to play a new game which >would not run on Windows NT 4.0. > If only I could "downgrade" to Win95 (where my games worked just fine) from Win98 where everything hiccups and belches. But that's not really an option because all the files created under Win98's FAT32 file system would be incompatible with Win95's FAT16 file system (at least I think so)!!!!!!!! As for Word 97, except for having to get used to all of the changes they made in it, it seems to work just fine on my system (if you ignore all of Win98's crashes, etc.). This morning I came into my office to find that it crashed while Norton Antivirus was running its nightly scan. Then it crashed while I tried to reboot the computer, causing me to have to totally shut down the system. Of course, then you have to put up with Win98 running ScanDisk as it reboots "because Windows wasn't normally shut down". And the real icing on the cake is that the screen displayed while ScanDisk is running (interminably on a 6.4Gig drive) tells you that, if you don't want to see this screen again, to always exit from the Start menu (when you're seeing that screen directly because it wouldn't shut itself down properly from the Start menu)!!!!! Oooooh, I HATE Win98! Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:41:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker Subject: Win98 Seeing all this hatred of Windows 98 has me concerned. We just ordered a new PC for home that will use Win98. I've still got Win95 at work; naturally, I expect I'll go back and forth between computers from time to time. Are people suggesting that going from one to the other won't work? I don't have any problems now, when I go back and forth from Win95 to our soon-to-be-old-hat Win 3.1--at least using the kinds of software we use (e.g., WP5.1 or 6.1). Anybody NOT having bad luck with Win98? Sorry for the non-index subject. Larry Baker Larry.Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:02:28 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Win98 Larry (and others), I do think that this is an indexing topic in many ways, because we all depend so greatly on our computers. I spent this last weekend and early part of the week struggling with computer problems, and it reminded me how much I depend on the @##*%(% thing. And I have and have been happy with Win 95. To the point. I am also interested in comments on Win98. My husband (who likes new toys) is trying to get me to upgrade. I am the one who uses the computer the most, and I am very content with things as they are. I am not technologically shy at all, and will try out many new programs just for fun. BUT.... Yes, I know, everyone will be switching eventually, and things will be tightened, tweaked, etc. Programs will be made for Win98 more and more. In the meantime, is anyone happy with it? Thanks, Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:42:16 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809041522.IAA21018@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 10:24 AM 9/4/98 -0500, Lucinda wrote: >What's really scary is that my hubby does electrical work for >a living. It sounds like he's bringing his work home with him. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:11:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Noyes Subject: Re: Win98 Leslie, (Long time no talk to! Grin) I have been using W98 now for a few months and am pretty much neutral. Actually, I've pretty much forgotten what the differences are, which tells you something! I had more complaints with Office 97 (and still do!) because of how 'clever' it tries to be and yet doesn't do certain things that I relied on from the earlier version. But -- as usual -- I've adapted. My husband (being an engineer) OF COURSE had to be a beta test site for W98 and I used to snicker every time he crashed, but the released version seems to have worked out the kinks. Do watch your AOL stuff, though -- when I first got W98 and took advantage of the AOL 4.0 that came with it, I had a fierce battle with a renegade weather map that kept popping up and interrupting whatever I was doing. Hasn't happened for many weeks now, so it seems that AOL may have fixed their end of the problem. (You can switch screen names without logging off with 4.0!) Don't be too afraid, but there isn't a huge reason to upgrade that I can see. I'd wait a year. Nancy Noyes All Write ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:13:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Win98 In-Reply-To: <199809041903.MAA21243@mail-gw6.pacbell.net> At 03:02 PM 9/4/98 EDT, Leslie wrote: > Programs will be made for Win98 more and more. In the >meantime, is anyone happy with it? Hi Leslie, I HATE IT! I HATE IT! I HATE IT! Just as a case in point, in trying to download my mail just now, I got a "hardware failure" message as I was trying to dial out. I get weird, spooky, STUPID messages like this umpteen times a day for almost every activity I perform under Win98. And, just to make sure I'm awake, it decides to suddenly reboot the computer every so often. Oh, I almost forgot to add: I HATE IT!!!!!! YMWV (your mileage won't vary) Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:25:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Win98 Scuttlebutt I've heard from people who made the switch: 1) As I reported earlier to the list, Win98 does have the unfortunate feature of disabling non-Microsoft software. This can be remedied by re-copying over the affected .DLL files (and probably by reinstalling all non-MS software after Win98 is installed), but it's a pain. 2) It crashes a LOT, but the problem goes down the more RAM you get-- I've heard that 128MB is the minimum to avoid frequent, annoying crashes. 3) This is the absolute last upgrade that MS will be doing for the Windows operating system. After this, it's going to be all WindowsNT 5.0 and up, all the time. Since the current version of WinNT does NOT like DOS applications, I hope that is something they will address in 5.0, but somehow I doubt it. 4) Upgrading your operating system will not affect compatibility as much as upgrading your software. There is nothing inherently incompatible about Win95 and Win98 (but some specific Win98 software will not run on Win95), but, for example Word 7.0 and Word97 are HIGHLY incompatible. Around here, I think our Help Desk has had more problems with people who have Office 97 on their home computers (we're still running Office 95 here) than with Win98. All in all, we made the business decision to not upgrade to Win98. We felt that there just were not enough added benefits to justify it, but that's a decision you're going to have to make for yourself. I would read up on articles and ask knowledgable people this question: Exactly what will Windows 98 do for me that Windows 95 can't? If you don't get a satisfactory answer, don't spend the money. -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM [SMTP:LLFEdServ@AOL.COM] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 1998 3:02 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Win98 > > Larry (and others), > I do think that this is an indexing topic in many ways, because we all > depend > so greatly on our computers. I spent this last weekend and early part of > the > week struggling with computer problems, and it reminded me how much I > depend > on the @##*%(% thing. And I have and have been happy with Win 95. > To the point. I am also interested in comments on Win98. My husband (who > likes > new toys) is trying to get me to upgrade. I am the one who uses the > computer > the most, and I am very content with things as they are. I am not > technologically shy at all, and will try out many new programs just for > fun. > BUT.... > Yes, I know, everyone will be switching eventually, and things will be > tightened, tweaked, etc. Programs will be made for Win98 more and more. In > the > meantime, is anyone happy with it? > Thanks, > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:57 -0400 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Win98 In-Reply-To: <199809041842.OAA17033@mx05.erols.com> Larry, After installing Win98 (which was very easy and installed without a hitch) my computer system has been significantly *more* stable than it was with Win95. I have nothing but positive things to say about it. In fact, a modem card that would not Plug 'N Play with Win95, does Plug 'N Play under Win98. My software is perceptibly, although only slightly, faster too. (Because of the new FAT32 file system and enhanced defragmenter.) I am certainly dismayed that so many others have had a bad experience with Win98. I just wanted to let you know that not everyone is having a bad experience. Oh yea, I want to point out something that I think is very important to know. When a program crashes, you cannot *assume* that it crashed because of a problem with Windows. In fact, video display drivers and screen savers are frequently the problem - not Windows and not the program that was running. I have disabled my screen saver completely and use only my monitors power-down feature to keep my monitor from developing "burn-in" and program/system crashes have been reduced significantly. Hope this info is of use to some of you out there. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com web: http://www.sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 or 410-374-3484 fax: 410-374-3484 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:01:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: QuarkXPress - Do you love it? In-Reply-To: <199809041827.OAA24585@camel9.mindspring.com> In other words, charge hourly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jan At 09:06 AM 9/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 01:06 PM 9/3/98 -0700, Jan wrote: > >>Tell the client you will need sole access to their files for the entire >>time, or you will need to trade files back and forth with them until your >>edit cycle. > >Hi Ann, > >As always, I agree with everything Jan says in her awesome posts on >embedded indexing. :-) > >Jan is right about what you need to tell your client. However, there is a >nightmare waiting to happen if you trades files back and forth with them. I >know, having been there. ;-D > >Without having all of the files at any given time, it becomes impossible to >generate the interim versions of the entire index. And, without doing that, >a big drift factor can set into the index that will make it a true >nightmare to edit. If you can't avoid doing that, I strongly recommend >saving copies of each file that you've indexed, so that you can generate >interim indexes. Even so, you won't be able to actually edit what you've >already indexed until you get all of the files back as you'll have to make >your edits in those files, not in the copies you kept. (Insist on getting >the files back for editing!!!! Otherwise you'll have to send the client a >huge document describing the edits that THEY'll have to make. A big pain in >the verrrry low back.) > >Another pitfall of trading files with the client is that your >administrative overhead on the project skyrockets enormously. When I was >doing a project like this, I was sending out Fedexes DAILY because they'd >send me a chapter or two each day and I'd have to send out what I indexed >the previous day (or even what I indexed the same day). So, every day, I >was spending time generating cover letters, copying files, filling out air >bills, driving to the Fedex box, etc. Fortunately, my client was very >understanding and compensated me generously for the overhead. So, you need >to make arrangements with your client about this upfront. > >Believe me, the one project that I did like this (wandering into it out of >sheer ignorance ;-D) was such a nightmare for me and the client that I even >wrote a KeyWords article about it. ;-D (Fortunately, being that it was such >a nightmare on the client's end, too, they readily agreed to not do that >again.) > >HTH, >Lynn > >*********************************** >Lynn Moncrief >(techndex@pacbell.net) >TECHindex & Docs >Technical and Scientific Indexing >*********************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Win98 In-Reply-To: <199809041903.PAA01007@camel9.mindspring.com> I wouldn't upgrade to Win98 for at least 6 months from now. Just to give it a chance to settle down, and to get all the Service release patches also a chance to settle down. Or I may upgrade an auxiliary machine, but not my main working machine. I find if you upgrade immediately, you get to be the guinea pig not only for the operating system, but also for the patches, which sometimes inflict problems that were unforseen and not tested for. Let others have the pain, and wait for a bit! Jan Wright At 03:02 PM 9/4/98 EDT, you wrote: >Larry (and others), >I do think that this is an indexing topic in many ways, because we all depend >so greatly on our computers. I spent this last weekend and early part of the >week struggling with computer problems, and it reminded me how much I depend >on the @##*%(% thing. And I have and have been happy with Win 95. >To the point. I am also interested in comments on Win98. My husband (who likes >new toys) is trying to get me to upgrade. I am the one who uses the computer >the most, and I am very content with things as they are. I am not >technologically shy at all, and will try out many new programs just for fun. >BUT.... >Yes, I know, everyone will be switching eventually, and things will be >tightened, tweaked, etc. Programs will be made for Win98 more and more. In the >meantime, is anyone happy with it? >Thanks, >Leslie >Frank Words Indexing and Editing > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan D. Hernandez" Subject: Indexing question: page ranges and figures Hi Everyone, I'm indexing a book which is, to put it mildly, rather poorly organized. It contains many sample problems which reference figures and tables which are several pages before or after the problem. I need some help figuring out how to handle the figures. I'm not allowed to annotate the page numbers to indicate a figure, and most times the figure title isn't descriptive enough to make sense without the sample problem. So my question is: when I have a page range for the sample problem, do I add the page number of the referenced figure to the locator string? Or, should I leave the figure page number out and just let the reader find the figure after he/she finds it referred to in the text (there aren't any page numbers for the figures in the text)? To make it worse, the sample problems usually cover a page range that is punctuated by figures referenced by a different problem, forcing me to break up the page range and have rather long locator strings. Plus, almost every sample also contains a reference to a relevant master figure. Should I include the page number of the master figure as well? Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks. - Susan P.S. some computer related oxymorons: Advanced BASIC software documentation computer jock computer security Microsoft Works *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com bookend@sprynet.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:58:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Deason Subject: Susan Holbert Video Series Has anyone tried the Susan Holbert Video Series? What did you think of it? I'm considering getting it and just wondered if anyone could recommend it. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:30:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: Re: Susan Holbert Video Series In a message dated 9/4/98 2:00:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Gajahasta@AOL.COM writes: << Has anyone tried the Susan Holbert Video Series? What did you think of it? >> Hi Carol, Don't overlook the review of SH's "Basic Indexing Video Workshop." It's in "TennWords," the online newsletter of the Tennessee Regional Group of ASI. the latest issue contains a review by someone who purchased and used it. Follow the links from: http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html Dawn Spencer CHOICE INDEXING indexlady@aol.com http://members.aol.com/indexlady/ --------------- Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers tennwords@aol.com http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html --------------- author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101 http://www.suite101.com/topics/page.cfm/1019 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:52:38 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Weird computer problems In-Reply-To: <199809041827.LAA28425@pacific.net> >>I know that some people claim to be able to see an aura around people. >>Perhaps people like the man in your office and my daughter have some >>electrical or magnetic charge that causes machines to burp and belch. >> > >I seem to remember that someone did a study on this, with the result that >some people do seem to have a negative effect on electronic equipment. >After all, some folks have a biomagnetic field that stops analog watches. ;-D Check out information on Kirlian photography... which clearly shows the auras we all have. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 19:08:24 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Win98 In a message dated 98-09-04 15:31:45 EDT, you write: << 2) It crashes a LOT, but the problem goes down the more RAM you get-- I've heard that 128MB is the minimum to avoid frequent, annoying crashes. >> This is not good news. My poor little obsolete 3-year-old computer only upgrades to 72 MB. And I'm not buying a new system just for Win98!!!!!!! (Of course my son would love having a computer of his own--this old one--and my husband would look at getting a new computer as a new toy acquisition, but I'm still not going to do it!!!!! Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:49:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Win98 In-Reply-To: <199809042000.NAA10233@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> At 03:59 PM 9/4/98 -0400, Kamm Y. Schreiner wrote: >Oh yea, I want to point out something that I think is very important to >know. When a program crashes, you cannot *assume* that it crashed because of >a problem with Windows. In fact, video display drivers and screen savers are >frequently the problem - not Windows and not the program that was running. I >have disabled my screen saver completely and use only my monitors power-down >feature to keep my monitor from developing "burn-in" and program/system >crashes have been reduced significantly. Hi Kamm, I had actually deleted my original reply to you, having decided not to post yet again to this thread, just moments before Win98 crashed on me yet again! ;-D I only lost about five minutes of work in Macrex, but it was particularly tedious work. $#%@! I agree that video-driver crashes shouldn't be blamed on Win98, but even ruling out those and screen-saver caused crashes, it crashes wayyyy too often. I strongly agree with Jan that folks should wait until the patches (and the bug fixes to the patches) come out. There is no way that you can know in advance whether Win98 will run reliably on *your* own machine or not. And if you do install it over Win95, it's not easy to go back to Win95 if you wish (as born out by a current thread on PC-SOFT). But, even given the difficulty of going back to Win95, I'm strongly considering it, even though it will entail reformatting and partitioning my hard drive (too large for Win95 to address as one partition). Another reason not to buy Win98 yet is to send Microsoft a strong message about hurrying out the door a rickety, bug-laden piece of garbage that won't run stably on all systems. I only got stuck with it because I bought a new computer not knowing that it had already come out. I really wish I had paid the additional $60 or so it would have cost to have them install Win95 on it instead. (Yes, we asked, not wanting to be the first kids on the block with a new OS.) Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:00:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Win98 I've just had four new e-mail messages from clients who are concerned about their new systems as a result of the Win98 postings here on Index-L. Note: I do not want to discourage such postings -- I believe it is important that we share this type of information, especially as most members of Index-L are their own support staff. However, as I have said so frequently of late -- There is an enormous difference between a new computer with Win98 pre-installed and a system which has been upgraded to Win98. Some computer users upgraded because they were having problems with Win95; others have done so because a new application recommended the use of Win98; a few have done it because Win98 is new. All of these are valid reasons to upgrade but are not any guarantee that the upgrade will work. Lynn Moncrief, for example, is probably having some of her problems as a result of one of the features she liked best -- large volumes in a single drive. From the description and remembering the time frame of her move to Win95, I am sure she did not have rev. B (which supported large volumes). There were many problems when users installed the service pack which was supposed to take the system from FAT16 to FAT32 -- the descriptions at that time sound just like much of what Lynn is experiencing. Many applications did not make the transfer gracefully (especially those such as virus checking, disk defragmenting, etc.). I have refused to install an upgrade as an upgrade. I found it much safer to back everything up on tape, FDISK the drive and start from scratch so that there was no FAT16 involved OR to ignore FAT32 entirely. Also, I am seeing an increasing number of users who neglect to periodically empty the TEMP directory. (To do so, select Shut Down/Restart in MS-DOS mode. You should end up at the C:\WINDOWS> prompt. Use the SET command to see what directory is the TEMP directory (usually but not always C:\WINDOWS\TEMP>). Now, delete EVERYTHING in this directory by typing DELTREE TEMP Answer yes to the query about deleting the directory and all subdirectories. Next recreate the TEMP directory with the command MD TEMP When this is done, return to Windows by typing EXIT Your computer should reboot and return you to the desktop. Note that case is not important in the commands above. Also NEVER, EVER use Windows Explorer to clean out the TEMP directory and NEVER, EVER do it from an MS-DOS Prompt Icon. As for the Word97 and Office97 -- be sure to check to see if you need the service pack by going to the Microsoft website and getting the patch check (PATCHCHK.EXE) program. The service pack seems to solve many problems. Gale Rhoades scrambling to reply to many new messages and hoping indexers will continue to share the tips and problems of using a computer. In a message dated 9/4/98 11:43:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Larry.Baker@GALE.COM writes: << Seeing all this hatred of Windows 98 has me concerned. We just ordered a new PC for home that will use Win98. I've still got Win95 at work; naturally, I expect I'll go back and forth between computers from time to time. Are people suggesting that going from one to the other won't work? I don't have any problems now, when I go back and forth from Win95 to our soon-to-be-old-hat Win 3.1--at least using the kinds of software we use (e.g., WP5.1 or 6.1). Anybody NOT having bad luck with Win98? Sorry for the non-index subject. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:37:44 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Organization: W W Walker Web Development Subject: AusSI Web indexing prize 1998 Australian Society of Indexers Web Indexing Prize 1998 Launch The Australian Society of Indexers is running their Web indexing again this year with me as judge. Closing date: November 30, 1998 Anyone may enter. If you index Web sites, create subject indexes to the Web in general, create online bibliographies with indexes, or a host of other forms of Web indexing please send us your URL and a description about yourself, the audience and how you created it. You need not be an HTML whiz to enter. You can be part of a team that created a Web index. Prizes include: year's membership to the Australian Society of Indexers an indexing book ($50 AUD) (to be confirmed) year's subscription to The Indexer (to be confirmed) Details and application form are at: http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight/aussiwebprize98.html or email your details to: dwight@speakeasy.org All the best! Dwight Walker Judge Australian Society of Indexers Web Indexing Prize 1998 -------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145, Australia http://www.wwwalker.com.au tel +61-2-98960286, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:54:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Weird computer problems I have a close friend who has a measured electrical field much stronger than normal humans. She fries computers, telephones, etc. on a regular basis. The interesting part is that she is an extremely accurate tarot card reader (scarily so) and actually broadcasts her very vivid and unusual dreams. (I've shared a room with her at several conferences and do not rest well at all -- I've taken to describing her dreams to her over breakfast -- small revenge...) Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:00:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Win98 I have Win95 on my new laptop and Win98 on my new desktop system. Both are manufacturer-installed, and I have no problem with either. However, my friend with the electrical field has gone through the tortures of the *darned* in upgrading her Win95 to Win98. Her suggestion was that, if I want to upgrade the laptop, take it to a dealer and pay the fee to have them do the upgrade -- they handle all the potential problems. Being Scottish to the core, I think I can live nicely with the two different versions on two different machines, thank you very much... Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:26:19 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jeanmidd Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Re: Susan Holbert Video Series I enjoyed taking Susan Holbert's video course very much this summer and plan to review it several times. One of its best features is that you can review it as often as you like. Susan is a down-to-earth instructor with many practical tips. She encourages you to either continue to study on your own after taking her course or to take another course. She points out that confidence in one's ability varies from person to person. Her marketing suggestions on the last tape are also quite valuable. I retired from a 28-year career as a technical editor in June of this year and decided that indexing would be the ideal postretirement career. This is what I have done so far besides taking Susan Holbert's class: o Purchased the 14th edition of the Chicago Style Guide (I had the 13th already) o Purchased two books on indexing, Nancy Mulvany's Indexing Books and Linda Fetters'Handbook of Indexing Techniques: A Guide for Beginning Indexers o Joined ASI o Attended Do Mi Stauber's workshop, "Facing the Text" at the Southern California ASI meeting in Santa Barbara in July o Indexed two books on my own (without feedback since I have no one to perform that service) o Purchased Standard Edition of SkyIndex o Signed up for October demo for indexing software at SoCal's October workshop o Registered for the USDA Basic Indexing course (I have not yet received confirmation of my online registration) I listed these things because I would also like to have some feedback as to other things I can do. Of course I read the daily submissions to Index-L. Some are relevant to me and others are not. I was toying with the idea of learning on my own as many others seem to have done, but I questioned why anyone would hire me with a resume that showned no formal training (other than the video class and workshops). I also need feedback from and experienced indexer. I have seen the discussions on the USDA class. Some had positive experiences and some negative ones. I decided to invest in it and find out for myself. Jean Middleton jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:01:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In a message dated 98-08-30 14:49:55 EDT, Lynn wrote: > > I discussed your modem problems with my husband, being that he upgraded > the modem in one of our old computers successfully under Win95. > > Being that you are using an external modem, you may be having a COM port > conflict. Hi all, Believe it or not, changing the modem cable made a difference! You cannot imagine how many hours I have wasted playing around with DUN, etc, *plus* all that time waiting on hold to talk to support at Dell, US Robotics, AOL, three ISP,s and Microsoft! Who was it that suggested trying a new cable? Not one of the support people, although I told most, if not all, of them that I had an external modem. It was my practical-minded brother (who BTW never went beyond the 8th grade -- dyslexia was not a recognized problem then). Of course, he can fix anything -- a mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician rolled into one -- now computer expert, also. Anyway, I have by no means gotten the kinks out of Messaging, but I have managed to sign onto an ISP other than AOL for the first time in the 10 months since I bought this computer! Thanks for your offer of help, Lynn. It looks like I might be OK, but, of course, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the time being. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:27:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Henry Meyerding Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In-Reply-To: <199809052009.NAA00381@goomba.com> from "Ann Truesdale" at Sep 5, 98 04:01:47 pm Next time, try Linux... Down with Plug and Pray! Glad you got lucky, and it worked. Henry W. Meyerding ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:04:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system -- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard. Since I appear to be swayed by Big Names in Business just like any other geek I tend to regard seriously any product bearing Peter Norton's name. [I wonder how much control he still maintains over Symantec's software dvelopment?] Even though the industry seems to prefer Quarterdeck's CleanSweep as an uninstaller, I am trying out BOTH that one and the Norton. I certainly prefer the user interface of the Norton version: much more user-friendly. CrashGuard has an interesting, and potentially useful, feature for testing its effectiveness. There are a couple of panels where the user may select a type of crash, hit the GO button, and the program generates a crash. Neat. [Incidentally, this feature is shown nowhere in the manual, I just looked. Maybe it only appears on installation?] There are about 20 flavours of crashes and the first few were handled in an acceptable manner. But when I tried "Divide by 0", SPLAT! Crashed big-time, with a blank screen and the DOS prompt appearing. Later this week I will probably try out more testing to see what other situations it cannot handle. Unfortunately, Divide by 0 happens more frequently than I like in Netscape Navigator; but once every 40 or so accesses may not be so bad. Am I too fussy? Comments, criticisms and witticisms cheerfully accepted. Thanks in advance, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems In a message dated 98-09-03 19:30:08 EDT, Patsy Dawson wrote: > We have a friend who builds computers. One of his customers had a cat > = > who liked to sleep on top of his monitor. One day while the customer was = > working at his computer, all of a sudden the cat received a charge of = > electricity and rolled over onto the floor dead. When the man checked = > out his computer, he found that a thick layer of cat hair had built up = > in the air holes to the point that it finally made a connection between = > some electrical part and the cat. Yikes! It is a wonder our office cat lived to 16! She not only slept on the monitor, but occasionally threw up on it. (If you don't own a cat, throwing up once & a while is just one of those cute things they do.) One time when this happened, the monitor went blank & the receptionist quickly pulled power plug. This happened just before we closed for the weekend. I was in on Sunday, and with much hesitation, plugged it back in. It worked fine! We just cleaned it up, & I thought we were lucky to not have to buy a new monitor. But I *never* thought about what could have happened to the cat! Ann Truesdale P.S. Has any other cat owner out there ever pried all the key buttons off of a keyboard to remove cat hair? (Make sure you disconnect it first! See above.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: FAT32 / FAT16 (was RTF files) In a message dated 98-09-04 14:28:24 EDT, Lynn wrote: > > If only I could "downgrade" to Win95 (where my games worked just fine) from > Win98 where everything hiccups and belches. But that's not really an option > because all the files created under Win98's FAT32 file system would be > incompatible with Win95's FAT16 file system (at least I think so)!!!!!!!! > That was the Q. I had during my brief encounter with Win98. Does changing to FAT 32 affect data files from wordprocessors & spreadsheets, and such so that they can't be taken back to FAT 16?? I decided to not convert to FAT 32 since I didn't know the answer to that, and I am not short on disk space. Anybody know? Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:17:34 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: RTF files: chat In a message dated 98-09-03 20:26:12 EDT, you write: > But maybe my dislike of Gates and his company is showing. I've always > found it strange that Microsoft, with its huge design staff, still > produces lousy, unworkable, non-user-friendly software. > > Cheers anyway, > Dave T. > But you get animated cursors and smirking paperclips!! Party pooper! ;-} Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:30:06 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard In a message dated 98-09-05 17:10:00 EDT, Dave wrote: > > Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased > falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system > -- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted > an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard. > Hi Dave, After my recent with McAfee PC Medic crash guard program (reformatted my hard drive to clean up the mess) I would advise anyone to think twice before installing any utility programs like this. One thing you can do is check the maker's support bulletin board to see what sort of problems people are having and if tech support can fix them. I'd have saved myself a lot of hassle is I'd done that before buying PC Medic. I have the Quarterdeck Cleansweep -- no disasters yet, but I am afraid to use it much any more. BTW all the support personnel I have talked to with my several computer problems have unanimously advised against using utilities with Win95/98. They say that if the program does not conflict with Win itself, it surely will with some application software products. One said that since software is a "moving target", the utility designers don't have a chance to take everything into account. Of course, that seems to apply to *all* software, including opsys! Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:46:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard In-Reply-To: <199809052110.RAA05746@camel9.mindspring.com> At 05:04 PM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased >falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system >-- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted >an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard. After years of struggle with Norton products (Navigator, Utilities, Virus-Checker, Crash Guard, etc.) My Win95 system is now blissfully Symantec-free. I spent far more time tweaking and applying patches than I ever saved by using the products for their intended purposes. The virus checker caused one of my most catastrophic system crashes by fixing a virus I didn't have. Later, it failed to warn me of one I did have. The last straw was when the Norton disk defragmenter kept hanging. Turns out it can't defrag the disk the defragmenter program resides on. Since I only had one disk (C:) it wasn't much use. I now use only the Microsoft disk utilitiies, Dr. Solomon virus checker, and Cleansweep uninstaller. I've had no problems since making the change last February. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:47:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: FAT32 / FAT16 (was RTF files) In-Reply-To: <199809052118.RAA13532@camel26.mindspring.com> At 05:17 PM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >That was the Q. I had during my brief encounter with Win98. Does changing to >FAT 32 affect data files from wordprocessors & spreadsheets, and such so that >they can't be taken back to FAT 16?? I decided to not convert to FAT 32 since >I didn't know the answer to that, and I am not short on disk space. Anybody >know? I don't have Win98, but I do have FAT32 installed under Win95b. I've had no problems sharing files with FAT16 computers. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:52:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems In-Reply-To: <199809052118.RAA32697@camel26.mindspring.com> At 05:17 PM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-09-03 19:30:08 EDT, Patsy Dawson wrote: > >> We have a friend who builds computers. One of his customers had a cat >> = >> who liked to sleep on top of his monitor. One day while the customer was = >> working at his computer, all of a sudden the cat received a charge of = >> electricity and rolled over onto the floor dead. When the man checked = >> out his computer, he found that a thick layer of cat hair had built up = >> in the air holes to the point that it finally made a connection between = >> some electrical part and the cat. Not to question the veracity of your friend, but wouldn' t the cat have to have been grounded to get a shock? That's why birds can sit on power lines with impunity: there is no path from the electricity to the ground. I can see a cat having it's hind feet on the ground and touching an electrical source with it's front feet and creating a path to ground but I can't see it happening as described. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:57:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Cindex sort Hi folks (I hope I'm not the only USA indexer working this weekend), I'm trying to make Cindex sort on Roman as well as Arabic numerals. From what I can glean from the manual, I would go into SORT and then change TYPE PRECEDENCE from "1a" (the default) to... 1ar? (that's a one, not an el) Does that sound right to you? -- Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: FAT32 / FAT16 (was RTF files) In-Reply-To: <199809052118.RAA14513@mx02.erols.com> Does changing to FAT 32 affect data files from wordprocessors & spreadsheets, and such so that they can't be taken back to FAT 16?? I decided to not convert to FAT 32 since I didn't know the answer to that, and I am not short on disk space. Anybody know? If I am understanding the question correctly, this is the answer: 1) It is very easy to convert a FAT16 volume to a FAT32 volume - Win98 contains a utility to do it automatically. 2) You cannot *easily* convert a FAT32 volume back to a FAT16 volume. At least I am not aware of an easy way. The only way I am aware of is to backup the FAT32 volume to tape, reformat the hard drive, and finally, restore the files from the tape backup. 3) There is no problem whatsoever copying files back and forth from FAT32 and FAT16 volumes. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com web: http://www.sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 or 410-374-3484 fax: 410-374-3484 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:29:41 -0400 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard In-Reply-To: <199809052149.RAA21588@mx02.erols.com> After years of struggle with Norton products (Navigator, Utilities, Virus-Checker, Crash Guard, etc.) My Win95 system is now blissfully Symantec-free. I spent far more time tweaking and applying patches than I ever saved by using the products for their intended purposes. I agree with Dick. However, my experience does not apply to Symantec products, it applies to utilities in general. I have, after many bad experiences, decided that I will not buy "utility" programs at all unless they are a necessity. I never buy them just because I think it *might* improve performance, *might* cleanup my registry, or *might* give me extra resources. I've found that virtually all products that make these kinds of claims cause more problems than they solve. My two cents. Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com web: http://www.sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 or 410-374-3484 fax: 410-374-3484 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:40:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: FAT32 / FAT16 [uninformed reply] Before I open any reference books, my gut feeling after recently installing Win NT and Win 95 is DON'T mess with the FAT formats. Programs may disapper, mutate, dissolve or die as a result. In my case I left everything alone and did not convert anything to FAT32, NTFS, HPFS or any other wonders available. [It's possible Win 95 may have meddled with something but I haven't check this yet.] >From the Partition Magic 3.0 manual: "FAT32 Options To create FAT32 formatted partitions, your computer normally must have Eindows 95 4.00.95.950B or later, which currently comes only preinstalled on the computer by the manufacturer.... [Options] o *Enable* will override Autodetect and allow you to create partitions formatted for FAT32. Only advanced users should enable this option.... WARNING: Enabling this option on a system that does not have FAT32 support will make it impossible to access partitions that you change to FAT32 with that computer." Unfortunately, that appears to be all the info I can find at this time. Karp's book, "Windows Annoyances", and a couple of others did not have much more than quoted above. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:51:22 -0700 Reply-To: penguins@wave.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Breffni Whelan Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems -----Original Message----- From: Ann Truesdale To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Saturday, September 05, 1998 1:07 PM Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems >Hi all, > >Believe it or not, changing the modem cable made a difference! You cannot >imagine how many hours I have wasted playing around with DUN, etc, *plus* all >that time waiting on hold to talk to support at Dell, US Robotics, AOL, three >ISP,s and Microsoft! Who was it that suggested trying a new cable? Not one of >the support people, although I told most, if not all, of them that I had an >external modem. It was my practical-minded brother (who BTW never went beyond >the 8th grade -- dyslexia was not a recognized problem then). Of course, he >can fix anything -- a mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician rolled into >one -- now computer expert, also. > >Anyway, I have by no means gotten the kinks out of Messaging, but I have >managed to sign onto an ISP other than AOL for the first time in the 10 months >since I bought this computer! > >Thanks for your offer of help, Lynn. It looks like I might be OK, but, of >course, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the time being. > >Ann Truesdale I also had a problem with a modem and finally determined it was the cord. I took it back to the computer store I'd got it from. They said there was never a problem with their cords, it must be something else, and very begrudgingly gave me a replacement. The replacement worked fine! As I left the store I saw them putting the defective cord back on the rack for the next poor sucker to buy. Needless to say, that store is no longer on my list of suppliers.... -- Breffni Whelan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:46:57 -0400 Reply-To: kbokeefe@ncounty.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kb Okeefe." Subject: Re: Staying sane/juggling roles Ann, You and I and Bonnie do the same thing, "interruptus constantus" - I was just wondering the other day if that happens only to me or do other people suffer the same frustration. I go from room to room half finishing everything and getting distracted by everything else. If it wasn't for the computer where I can write things down and print them out, I would be in deep trouble. Kathy O'K -----Original Message----- From: Ann Truesdale To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:15 PM Subject: Re: Staying sane/juggling roles >In a message dated 98-08-31 12:04:56 EDT, you write: > >> n a message dated 8/31/98 11:44:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >> kbab@NORTHNET.ORG writes: >> >> << Often I do a grounding exercise that I find helpful. >> >> >> I could use some grounding! I was trying to clean the kitchen the other >day, >> and I came across a plant I wanted to put in a pot my daughter made. I took >> it outside to plant it and and ...(snip) ... So I took those back to the >kitchen--the >> same filthy kitchen I had started cleaning thirty minutes earlier!!! >> >> Bonnie Taylor >> >Bonnie, I think we must be soul mates of a sort; but I am really glad we do >not co-exist in the same space. We would probably fall over each other while >puttering from one half-done job to the next. I also do the "why am I here?" >thing. I go to the kitchen because I'm thirsty. There, when I remember I came >to get something to drink, I realize that I've left my insulated mug on my >desk at the other end of the house. On the way to fetch it, I get diverted >until I again realize I am thirsty and go to the desk. Then I wonder why I am >there and see something that catches my attention -- until I realize I'm >thirsty.... > >It is a wonder that I don't write cross references that circle around and lead >back to the starting point. > >Let's see -- *what* was I doing? Oh, catching up on my e-mail! That one was >easy! > >Ann Truesdale > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:26:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems In-Reply-To: <199809052156.OAA09605@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 05:52 PM 9/5/98 -0400, Dick wrote: >Not to question the veracity of your friend, but wouldn' t the cat have to >have been grounded to get a shock? That's why birds can sit on power lines >with impunity: there is no path from the electricity to the ground. Hi Dick, I've looked a lot at birds sitting on power lines. I've noticed that they never sit on those uninsulated high voltage lines. Or maybe they sat on them for an instant, but I haven't looked to see what's on the ground below to actually confirm this. ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:48:46 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Outlook 98 & modem problems In-Reply-To: <199809052003.NAA00809@mail-gw2.pacbell.net> At 04:01 PM 9/5/98 EDT, Ann wrote: >Believe it or not, changing the modem cable made a difference! Hi Ann, FANTASTIC!!!! I'm really glad that your problem had such an easy solution, inexplicable as it is. ;-D > >Anyway, I have by no means gotten the kinks out of Messaging, but I have >managed to sign onto an ISP other than AOL for the first time in the 10 months >since I bought this computer! > >Thanks for your offer of help, Lynn. It looks like I might be OK, but, of >course, I am keeping my fingers crossed for the time being. I'm keeping mine crossed for you, too!! Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 19:54:21 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard In-Reply-To: <199809052109.OAA01597@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 05:04 PM 9/5/98 -0400, Dave wrote: >Since I appear to be swayed by Big Names in Business just like any >other geek I tend to regard seriously any product bearing Peter >Norton's name. [I wonder how much control he still maintains over >Symantec's software dvelopment?] Hi Dave, I've had no experience with Norton Crashguard, so unfortunately I can't address that issue. The Symantec-Peter Norton group usually puts the names all of those who worked on the product in the very front of the manual. (At least, they used to do that.) Peter Norton's name has always appeared in every one that I've seen, along with everyone else's. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 05:47:05 -0600 Reply-To: kwelsh@planet.eon.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Organization: Researcher Writer Editor Subject: WordPerfect Suite 8 crashes While we're on the subject of crashes, is anyone out there using WP8 with CorelCENTRAL? I thought it was great, having a calendar and a suite-wide address book and communications, so conveniently tied together... BUT, the communications part (supplied by Netscape) was incredibly buggy. Crashes every few minutes. (No, really-- I'm not exaggerating.) Any comments, suggestions? I'm back to regular Netscape Navigator (3.0 gold), which I'm not thrilled with either. Kate -- Kate Welsh kwelsh@planet.eon.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 05:48:18 -0600 Reply-To: kwelsh@planet.eon.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Organization: Researcher Writer Editor Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard > > At 05:04 PM 9/5/98 -0400, Dave wrote: > > >Since I appear to be swayed by Big Names in Business just like any > >other geek I tend to regard seriously any product bearing Peter > >Norton's name. [I wonder how much control he still maintains over > >Symantec's software dvelopment?] Dave, I use Norton Utilities and Norton Virus Checker regularly. I like Norton for probably the same reasons you do -- his picture on the software box, with glasses and white shirt, just inspires confidence! I like to keep System Doctor in start-up, so it can warn me if my virus or rescue information is out-of-date, or if my drives are fragmented. (I've used it to defrag, with no ill effects). After I check it on start-up, I turn it off, because it will sit there cutely telling me I'm almost out of memory, while using a chunk of memory to display that fact! I'm telling you all this, so you'll know that I really DO like most of Norton, and take me seriously when I tell you-- DON'T use CrashGuard! I had far more frequent and more serious crashes when I used it. Beats me why something intended to guard against crashes can actually cause them. >From my experience, a good hedge against crashes is just to have as much RAM as you can get onto your motherboard. I recently boosted my system (a P166) from 32 to 96 megs, and it seems much happier now. The two 32-meg SIMMs cost under $100, which is pretty good value for the improvement in my system. I'd now have a total of 128 megs, if my Scots soul would let me discard the 16-meg SIMMs that are filling the other slots! (Boy, times have changed. I remember when I was a "power user" with 640k of RAM on my XT!) Cheers! Kate -- Kate Welsh, BA(English), LLB Indexing - Research - Substantive editing - Stylistic editing - Writing Briefs - Policies - Legal materials - Manuals - Plain language materials ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:10:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Cindex sort Sarah, I just put arabic numerals in squigglies {} first in the order I want. Nell In a message dated 9/5/98 5:58:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, indexer@SAMPO.CREIGHTON.EDU writes: << I'm trying to make Cindex sort on Roman as well as Arabic numerals. From what I can glean from the manual, I would go into SORT and then change TYPE PRECEDENCE from "1a" (the default) to... 1ar? (that's a one, not an el) Does that sound right to you? >> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 06:23:04 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Kells Subject: _Key Words_ index Have any of you been indexing _Key Words_ since the last index was published by ASI (by Joanne Clendenen, 1994 covering issues 61-110)? If so, would you be willing to share (read "sell") copies of it? 8-) -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Kari Kells I n d e x W e s t indexwest@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ P.O. Box 2748 Vashon Island, WA 98070 206-567-5696 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:29:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vanessa Andrews Subject: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard -Reply I'm not an expert by any means, but my experience with Norton's CrashGuard has been far from happy. It caused my computer to crash, often when I first booted up. I attempted to uninstall it/disable it/anything. I was using the whole Norton Utilities software - CrashGuard included. When I tried to uninstall it, it also deleted my recycle bin (since Norton had installed it's own "Norton Protect" recycle bin over mine). I finally managed just to disable it and take that unstable "Norton System Doctor" from my Startup, but the whole experience was not pretty. I have version 2.0 (trade up version from First Aid - which I actually found to be much better for crash protection) running on Windows 95, and I don't know if my experience is typical, or if these problems have since been fixed. But I rue the day I ever installed it. Vanessa >>> I wanted an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard.>>> ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:41:52 -0700 Reply-To: st077@csufresno.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sabahudin tricic Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > > Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased > falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system > -- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted > an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard. Hi, Dave! Finnaly something that I can help with! Well, I have a Norton's CrashGuard, and I regret money I spent by purchasing it. It has a "mind of its own", finding and even fixing crashes when there are none. It cannot stand my HP Office Jet and half of the times when I turn on my printer, I get crash warnings. I checked if there is some conflict, but I didn't find anything. However, I had a few crashes it didn't warn me at all. > CrashGuard has an interesting, and potentially useful, feature for > testing its effectiveness. There are a couple of panels where the > user may select a type of crash, hit the GO button, and the program > generates a crash. Neat. [Incidentally, this feature is shown nowhere > in the manual, I just looked. Maybe it only appears on installation?] It is also suposed to have an "antifreeze" feature, where you can save your work and shut down the computer if the screen freezes on you. although its icon looks nice on my screen, it has no other function.IT DOESN'T WORK. Anyways, I'm getting something serious to replace Norton. Cheers, Layla Tricic ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:40:59 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual As I am packing up to move and have no need for the following: Thec Chicago Manual of Style 13th Edition American Psychological Association Publication Manual 4th Edition There is no charge, just need to get them in the mail by Wednesday. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:49:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Angie King Subject: Re: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual Ms. Horowitz, I am just starting out in Indexing and would pay for shipping charges for this book. I just read Indexing Books by Nancy Mulvany and this book would have been my next purchase. I am very interested! Let me know, Sincerely, Angie Wert ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:25:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard -Reply In-Reply-To: <199809061535.LAA23708@camel16.mindspring.com> At 10:29 AM 9/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >I finally managed just to disable it and take >that unstable "Norton System Doctor" from my Startup, but the whole >experience was not pretty. System Doctor was the most problematic feature for me. With it in the startup folder it routinely bumped heads with other applications causing my system to hang on bootup. It wasn't the most severe problem I had, but it was the most frequent. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:26:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual Hi Angie Just send me your address and I will pop it in the mail. I think there is a later edition so you can save your money for that. Roberta At 11:49 AM 9/6/98 EDT, you wrote: >Ms. Horowitz, > > >I am just starting out in Indexing and would pay for shipping charges for this >book. I just read Indexing Books by Nancy Mulvany and this book would have >been my next purchase. I am very interested! > >Let me know, >Sincerely, >Angie Wert > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:26:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual The Chicago Manual is gone but the APA guide is still available. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:37:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Topping Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems The secret to preventing cat hair problems is to get a Russian Blue. They seem to shed less than any cat except a totally hairless cat. Sandy for Her Majesty, Morganna ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:48:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems In-Reply-To: <199809061637.MAA23890@camel26.mindspring.com> Speaking of cats and computers, check out: http://www.cat-scan.com/ Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:50:30 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems Richard Evans wrote: > > Speaking of cats and computers, check out: > > http://www.cat-scan.com/ > It's weird. It may even have been mildly cruel, in some cases. But the guy has generated a ton of irate responses already, and I'm hoping we can avoid going down that path on INDEX-L. --David P.S. Yes, I have a cat. No, I wouldn't put her in a scanner. ============================== David M. Brown -- Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com http://www.brown-inc.com/ ============================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:01:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Weird computer cat hair problems In a message dated 98-09-05 23:09:22 EDT, Lynn & Dick write: > At 05:52 PM 9/5/98 -0400, Dick wrote: > > >Not to question the veracity of your friend, but wouldn' t the cat have to > >have been grounded to get a shock? That's why birds can sit on power lines > >with impunity: there is no path from the electricity to the ground. > > Hi Dick, > > I've looked a lot at birds sitting on power lines. I've noticed that they > never sit on those uninsulated high voltage lines. Or maybe they sat on > them for an instant, but I haven't looked to see what's on the ground below > to actually confirm this. ;-D > > Lynn > Regarding birds on powerlines: Many years ago we had reoccuring problems with power outages. Only the line leading to our house & my brother's were affected. The power co. came out repeatedly and could not find a problem. Then one day the repairman walked the path under the line where it crossed a stand of small pine trees. Underneath the line he found dozens of dead blackbirds! Somehow the upper line had gotten enough slack in it that when a mob of birds lit on it, sometimes it would touch the lower line. No power for us and dozens of fried blackbirds! We realized later the problem started when the annual blackbird invasion began. Power co. tightened the line & no more problems. If only we had known in time, we could have made a pie. ;-D Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:57:56 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: modem problems (long, and not of itself relevant to indexing) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BDD9A6.BB75CCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >From Christine Headley >From Christine Headley >At 04:01 PM 9/5/98 EDT, Ann wrote: > >>Believe it or not, changing the modem cable made a difference! My modem stopped working when I changed the adapter. The pins on the = plug had got bent so we got a new one, which caused the thing not to work. = So we changed back, but eventually the pins got so bent that we couldn't carry = on. And had to get a new modem in the end. I must say it is a pleasure to be back in a land where plugs match power points. Hong Kong was full of two-round-pin Things and three-rectangular-pin powerpoints, with a few three-round-pin = plugs/power points to confuse things utterly. Keen to get back on line as soon as possible, I packed the modem in my = plane luggage, and remembered all the necessary cables and software. I = had to set the computer up at the bottom of the stairs at first, as = telephone point and power points weren't laid out very helpfully, and I = couldn't get the thing to dial. Rang the ISP I planned to use. They = were helpful, but their solution didn't work, and I came to the = conclusion that I needed a UK modem, as the other one did say it was = specially adapted for Asia. To PC store on Sunday, accompanied by = reluctant children. Bought 'identical' modem, Having put children to = bed, I set it up and tried it. Still wouldn't dial out. And it was = Bank Holiday Monday so Tech Support, quite justifiably, had their feet = up. First thing Tuesday morning rang the techies, found problem, cured = it. THREE CHEERS. My HK computer is due to arrive in a week or so and I will be installing = the modem on that as it is the machine I prefer. As we now have two = modems, the family computer will also be internetable, but this was not = something we intended to do as we don't want the children running up = phone bills surfing... Christine Stroud, Glos where I have put the washing which got soaked by the tail end of = Hurricane Bonnie back on the washing line! ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BDD9A6.BB75CCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    From Christine Headley

    From Christine Headley 

    >At 04:01 PM 9/5/98 EDT, Ann = wrote:
    >

    >>Believe=20 it or not, changing the modem cable made a difference!


    My = modem=20 stopped working when I changed the adapter.  The pins on the = plug
    had=20 got bent so we got a new one, which caused the thing not to work.  = So=20 we
    changed back, but eventually the pins got so bent that we couldn't = carry=20 on.
    And had to get a new modem in the end.

    I must say it is a = pleasure=20 to be back in a land where plugs match power
    points.  Hong Kong = was full=20 of two-round-pin Things and
    three-rectangular-pin powerpoints, with a = few=20 three-round-pin plugs/power
    points to confuse things = utterly. 
     
    Keen to get back on line as soon as possible, I packed the modem in = my=20 plane luggage, and remembered all the necessary cables and = software.  I had=20 to set the computer up at the bottom of the stairs at first, as = telephone point=20 and power points weren't laid out very helpfully, and I couldn't get the = thing=20 to dial.  Rang the ISP I planned to use.  They were helpful, = but their=20 solution didn't work, and I came to the conclusion that I needed a UK = modem, as=20 the other one did say it was specially adapted for Asia.  To PC = store on=20 Sunday, accompanied by reluctant children. Bought 'identical' = modem, =20 Having put children to bed, I set it up and tried it.  Still = wouldn't dial=20 out.  And it was Bank Holiday Monday so Tech Support, quite = justifiably,=20 had their feet up.  First thing Tuesday morning rang the techies, = found=20 problem, cured it.  THREE CHEERS.
     
    My HK computer is due to arrive in a week or so and I will be = installing=20 the modem on that as it is the machine I prefer.  As we now have = two=20 modems, the family computer will also be internetable, but this was not=20 something we intended to do as we don't want the children running up = phone bills=20 surfing...
     

    Christine
    Stroud, Glos
    where I have put the washing which = got=20 soaked by the tail end of Hurricane Bonnie back on the washing=20 line! 
    ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BDD9A6.BB75CCE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:19:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Juggling Roles [new, sort of] When it comes to juggling roles in the workplace, fortunately I am perfect (laughter offstage). But a friend of mine who, unwisely perhaps, is attempting to run a small business from her home is IMHO in deep trouble. But she has been flaky all her life so perhaps she's developed a correcting mechanism of some sort. Since I was the one who suggested -- coerced? wheedled? -- that I build her a nice computer a year or so ago enabling her to get online and reap the wonderful benefits therefrom, I have become, sometimes grudgingly, her computer instructor. My friend is a SLOW learner which requires much repetition over the weeks. What drives me bats, though, are the interruptions that occur while we are attempting to go through some instruction on her computer "live"; that is, both of us in the same room as opposed to being on the phone. For example, three minutes into a session her boyfriend wants a sandwich; she walks off and everything stops for a while. After another five minutes the phone rings and of course must be answered [she has three telephone lines with answering boxes on two of them]. While on the first call a second caller triggers "call waiting" and this one must be at least looked at. And so it goes. I would say that during a 20-minute session we actually get 6 minutes of work done, and the interruptions definitely DO NOT help her retaining any of the information that she may have learned. I have begun chiding her a little every now and then, reminding her that $60 an hour costs a dollar a minute. [Actually I've been charging only $10, which she repays in goods, like my new printer and other stuff. Unfortunately she can no longer pay me *anything* since the business is not performing well enough.] And so it goes. Just thought this might have some amusement value. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 16:23:04 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Speisser Subject: Newbie ? indexing/editing Hi I am just putting my toe into the indexing waters and I have a question after lurking for a short time. Do any of you have any ideas on how many people just do indexing and how many do indexing/editing, etc? It seems from a lurkers perspective that quite a few do more than just indexing. Anyone care to share the reasons why? Is it to maintain a full working schedule or just something multi services evolved into? Thanks for any input. Please feel free to respond to me personally. Nancy Speisser speisser@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 19:32:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Peter Norton THANKS YOU [aka Talcott] Please excuse my tasteless humour, but apparently Symantec has made a serious mistake with both "Norton" products CrashGuard and Anti-Virus. My warm thanks to all the posted responses from Dick, Layia, Vanessa, Kate, Lynn, Kamm, Ann, and anybody else I've not mentioned. The votes are definitely AGAINST CrashGuard; I will uninstall it, if allowed, and return it, if permitted [the BOX says it's possible]. Since I also have PC911 and FirstAid running -- though not yet upgraded -- I feel that I'm pretty well crash-protected. Regarding the Norton Anit-Virus there has been enough bad news about it in the literature that I hadn't even considered using it. HOWEVER, I would at this time like to promote another anti-virus program which I've used for over a year: Advanced Diskinfoscope, which sounds as if, and in truth is, produced in Russia. The company that developed it is DialogueScience [http://www.dialogue-science.com/ download/home.htm or http://www.dialogue-science.com/dsave_toolkit/ drweb.htm]. They offer a slew of programs covering all platforms; I just visited these sites and they are both attractive and still very much alive. Not only does AD track virus activity, but it has a great feature which appeals, to me at least: upon bootup it scans things and presents a report on files changed, deleted, moved, added, new directories, and lots more. I still haven't explored all its possibilties, since there are a lot of options to fiddle with. >From my small reading of the literature I have the highest respect for the Russian developers and programmers, and still feel this program is both useful and trustworthy. Thanks again to all of you who shared their comments. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:23:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Angie King Subject: Re: Free - Chicago Manual Style 13, APA Publication Manual Roberta, Thank you so much!! I really appreciate it! My address is: Angie Wert 1601 Penzance Road Clermont, FL 34711 again....thank you, angie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:11:52 -0700 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: Peter Norton THANKS YOU [aka Talcott] Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > > Please excuse my tasteless humour, but apparently Symantec has made > a serious mistake with both "Norton" products CrashGuard and Anti-Virus. (snip) Regarding the Norton > Anit-Virus there has been enough bad news about it in the literature > that I hadn't even considered using it. What bad news? Most reviews I've read rate NAV as one of the best antivirus programs. I've used it for years and have not had any problems. Here's a review of version 5.0: http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/firstlooks/9808/f980820a.html They do describe a crash problem with Win98, but they also explain it. I've had very few crashes over the years, both at home and at work. Early on, I noticed that the more "junk" people had on their computer, esp. shareware, freeware, games, screensavers, etc,, the more problems they had. Also, I've never upgraded to a new version of Windows. I either buy it preinstalled on a computer, or I don't buy it. I have no plans to upgrade to Win98, either, since it will come with my next computer. Your mileage may vary. Laura Laura ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:29:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Newbie ? indexing/editing Dear Nancy, Your question struck a cord with me. We were all newbies once upon a time and I certainly welcome new people into our profession. However, I feel very strongly about a particular aspect of entering the indexing profession. Specifically, I'd like to respond to one of your questions, that is, regarding the indexers who also provide other services. The key to offering multiple services is having the required training and experience in the various services. I personally only index. Even when asked by clients to also take copy editing and/or proofing assignments I have always declined. The reason? Because I have neither the training or experience in these areas to do an adequate job. I have been fortunate enough to have enough indexing jobs to keep me busy full time. However, if I needed to supplement my workload I would take copy editing and/or proofing classes and learn my craft before accepting work. Indexing, editing, and proofing, are three separate skills requiring different mindsets and technical knowledge. Our profession does not have the educational credentials available to many other professions. For example, when hiring an engineer there will be evidence of an engineering degree which indicates a certain knowledge and competence. True, even a degree is no guarantee of competence, but the percentage of hiring an incompetent with a degree is lower than hiring someone with no engineering degree. There is nothing comparable in the indexing world. Therefore, I feel that it is extremely important that we, as indexers or editors or proofers, receive the necessary training (either through classes or mentoring or both) to complete our work assignments in a professional manner. Taking a two-day class or reading a book is not enough training. There is plenty of indexing work out there and room for new people or for those who wish to expand the services they offer. Yet, it's not enough to hang out your shingle, having the skills to back up the services you offer is very important. When one of us takes an assignment, misrepresenting our skills, it is a disservice to all of us. How can we maintain our creditability as professionals to publishers and authors if we don't consistently deliver the goods. Everytime someone misrepresents their skills and does a poor job another publisher becomes convinced that using a professional indexer is a waste of money and unnecessary. So, to answer your question, there are quite a few indexers who also do editing and/or proofing. However, these are indexers who are able to back up their proofing and editing claims with training and experience. Forgive the soap box. And good luck in pursuing your indexing interests. Best, Sylvia Coates Nancy Speisser wrote: > Hi > > I am just putting my toe into the indexing waters and I have a question > after lurking for a short time. Do any of you have any ideas on how > many people just do indexing and how many do indexing/editing, etc? It > seems from a lurkers perspective that quite a few do more than just > indexing. Anyone care to share the reasons why? Is it to maintain a > full working schedule or just something multi services evolved into? > > Thanks for any input. Please feel free to respond to me personally. > > Nancy Speisser > speisser@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:04:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Newbie ? indexing/editing Nancy Speisser wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marsha Lofthouse Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard Dafydd, You mentioned that you installed Win95 and Win NT on your system. I'm planning to do the same on a new machine I'm building from the ground up. Since I've never before used two OSs on the same machine, I'm curious as to how you set your up. Did you put each OS on a separate partition? Any details you (or anyone else) can provide will be greatly appreciated. I still have plenty to learn, but I'm having lots of fun . Marsha Lofthouse TargetSmart! The Power of Smart Business http://www.targetsmart.com mailto:marsha_lofthouse@targetsmart.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott [SMTP:75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 3:04 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard > > Now that the smoke has cleared and most of the rubble has ceased > falling after installing a whole phalanx of new stuff on my system > -- Win 95, Win NT, Dr.Osborne's Anti-Virus, blah, blah -- I wanted > an opinion from anyone on the effectiveness of Norton's CrashGuard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:46:13 -0500 Reply-To: Sarah Smith Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Smith Subject: Re: Cindex sort In-Reply-To: <199809052158.QAA23012@mailjay.creighton.edu> On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Sarah Smith wrote: > I'm trying to make Cindex sort on Roman as well as Arabic numerals. From > what I can glean from the manual, I would go into SORT and then change > TYPE PRECEDENCE from "1a" (the default) to... 1ar? (that's a one, not an > el) Does that sound right to you? Yes, I'm following up my own post... after the mistake I made, it's really necessary. I must have been half-asleep when I wrote the above. The sorting precedence is set by default to la, where l is an "el" and not a "one." Just the opposite of what I said. I hope I didn't lead anyone astray. As for the advice, thanks to all who wrote, but... the suggestion of putting Arabic numerals in squiggly brackets (in entries where they coexist with Roman numerals) doesn't really take care of the problem that Roman numerals will appear in alphabetical order (putting xxix before xxv, for instance) unless you set the "type precedence" otherwise. I called my sister (another Cindex person) and we agreed that I should set the "type precedence" to include r; our only puzzlement was which order to set them in... ral or rla; or maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, thank you to those who wrote! :) -- Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:13:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Newbie ? indexing/editing In-Reply-To: <199809062325.TAA03421@mail2.bellsouth.net> Providing enough different services to pay my bills was never an issue, since the first 15 yrs I was indexing and copyediting part-time. Now, after 30 yrs, I'm 'retired' (from being someone else's employee) and what I do on the side is mostly just to augment my pension... and to build up my investments portfolio for when I *really* retire, in a decade or so. But I was doing in-house copyediting and rewriting of publicity, official publications, and such for years before I started my side business, so that was a natural for me. I've also been writing and publishing for several decades, so bundling both of those skills with book and journal indexing seemed entirely natural. I offer "editorial services" and a customer for one of them is often a customer for another. I think writing, editing, indexing, and small-time publishing must all use the same portions of the brain. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Nancy Speisser |Sent: Sunday, September 06, 1998 6:23 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Newbie ? indexing/editing | | |Hi | |I am just putting my toe into the indexing waters and I have a question |after lurking for a short time. Do any of you have any ideas on how |many people just do indexing and how many do indexing/editing, etc? It |seems from a lurkers perspective that quite a few do more than just |indexing. Anyone care to share the reasons why? Is it to maintain a |full working schedule or just something multi services evolved into? | |Thanks for any input. Please feel free to respond to me personally. | |Nancy Speisser |speisser@hotmail.com | |______________________________________________________ |Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:51:32 -0700 Reply-To: Elinor Lindheimer Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Newbie ? indexing/editing Michael wrote: >I think writing, editing, indexing, and small-time publishing must all use the same portions of the brain. On the other hand, I think indexing uses a different part of the brain from editing, writing, etc. When I got into this business, it was because I loved editing--and I had taken a course at U.C. Extension--during which one week was devoted to indexing. One of my earliest jobs was editing, proofreading, and indexing a cookbook about sausages. Then as the years wore on (and on and on), indexing work took center stage precisely because of the reasons Christine Shuttleworth mentioned. Good indexers are in demand. And probably because of this, the pay is better. So for 26 years I defined myself as an indexer. But it fried my brain. And overstressed my family. Since last February, I have been just copyediting, and I feel the difference very clearly. In indexing, you are extracting concepts, categorizing, and ordering. In copyediting, you are clarifying concepts, rounding and smoothing. Both skills require an ability to manipulate words and make them "sound good," but I feel very differently when doing one or the other. A caveat about combining job descriptions: indexing is supremely deadline-oriented, and when an indexing job comes in, it must be done immediately. There usually isn't time to do any other work. Just my opinions! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:38:17 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: jeanmidd Organization: Prodigy Internet Subject: Re: Newbie ? indexing/editing I, too, am at this time a student indexer. I have yet to do my firt professional index. I am well qualified as an editor/proofreader, having just retired from 28 years in that profession. I intend, however, to go into indexing only. This topic has been discussed on this list before, and the consensus seemed to be that it is difficult to do different types of work at the same time. This convinced me to concetrate on indexing. As someone pointed out, there are no credentials that "qualify" one to be hired as an indexer. When I received my BS in Education with a major in English, I confidently applied for a teaching position and got one. As with all professions, however, I really learned on the job. The same was true with my first husband who got his law degee. He learned law in his "practice." I suspect the same is true with indexing, but when does one decide one is ready to market oneself as a "qualified indexer"? I soon discovered teaching was not for me and was hired at Lockheed as a junior technical writer and trained on the job. So my question is How do you know you are ready to market yourself? Jean Middleton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:44:17 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Fran Prottsman Subject: cindex for windows We just upgraded from Cindex Dos to Windows and are wondering if anyone = in The Birmingham, Alabama, USA area would be interested in a short cours= e on Cindex for Windows. Please let us know if you are. We will be taki= ng one and thought others in the area might want to join us. Thanks, Ron protts@entercomp.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:06:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: QUERY: Norton CrashGuard -Reply To All Concerned: In addition to Norton's Crash Monitor having a mind of its own, RealHelp's crash monitor system also has a mind of its own. It finds bad connections that don't exist, it cannot repair any of the damage it supposedly finds (of course -- because there was no damage in the first place.) Most crash protection systems do not seem to work. If you know of one that does consistently for many people, let me know. rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:58:23 -0400 Reply-To: kbokeefe@ncounty.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kb Okeefe." Subject: Fw: Staying sane/juggling roles -----Original Message----- From: DStaub11@aol.com To: kbokeefe@ncounty.net Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 2:14 AM Subject: Re: Staying sane/juggling roles >Kathy wrote: ><< You and I and Bonnie do the same thing, "interruptus constantus" - I was > just wondering the other day if that happens only to me or do other people > suffer the same frustration. I go from room to room half finishing > everything and getting distracted by everything else. >> > >Me too! It's nice to hear I'm not the only one. I've been trying to make a >clear decision about which thing I'm going to do. Sometimes I repeat it to >myself over and over as I walk down the hall: "laundry, laundry, laundry, >laundry..." And I remind myself that this happens because I have so much going >on in my head. It's a good thing. :-) I've been using a timer for >indexing--set it for 30 minutes and don't look up until it dings (except for >hand and eye stretches). That helps with the urge to leap up and do something >else. > >Do Mi >